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If Parise and Suter

A place to discuss the MN Wild
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Qman65
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If Parise and Suter

Post by Qman65 »

want to win they need to take a pay cut to make the team better. 7 years in and what have they done? 0. Up to this point it isn't about winning, it's about the money.
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Hornets
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hornets »

Qman65 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 am want to win they need to take a pay cut to make the team better. 7 years in and what have they done? 0. Up to this point it isn't about winning, it's about the money.
Are you willing to take a pay cut at your company if they aren't doing well? Didn't think so.
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DC4MVP
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by DC4MVP »

Qman65 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 am want to win they need to take a pay cut to make the team better. 7 years in and what have they done? 0. Up to this point it isn't about winning, it's about the money.
Fine and all but the CBA doesn't allow pay cuts/restructures.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by JPM »

Parise and Suter have been an abject failure.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by bubu dubu. »

JPM wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:17 pm Parise and Suter have been an abject failure.
I know you are trying to stir the pot like you do in every forum, but you won't find too many arguing this point.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by JPM »

No pot stirring. The Woodbury families bought tix but other than that abject failure.
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Hole Nova Level
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hole Nova Level »

Hornets wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:50 pm
Qman65 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 am want to win they need to take a pay cut to make the team better. 7 years in and what have they done? 0. Up to this point it isn't about winning, it's about the money.
Are you willing to take a pay cut at your company if they aren't doing well? Didn't think so.
This is a great point actually. They will take a pay cut, but it's not going to be with the Wild. It will be with a Cup contender where Suter can be the 3rd-4th Dman, Parise can be the 2nd-3rd-line winger, they lift the trade clause and take a cut to try to make a run with ANOTHER team.
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Lenny5160
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Lenny5160 »

Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:29 am
Hornets wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:50 pm
Qman65 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 am want to win they need to take a pay cut to make the team better. 7 years in and what have they done? 0. Up to this point it isn't about winning, it's about the money.
Are you willing to take a pay cut at your company if they aren't doing well? Didn't think so.
This is a great point actually. They will take a pay cut, but it's not going to be with the Wild. It will be with a Cup contender where Suter can be the 3rd-4th Dman, Parise can be the 2nd-3rd-line winger, they lift the trade clause and take a cut to try to make a run with ANOTHER team.
As DC said, they are contractually ineligible to take a pay cut. They may be paid less by another team, with the Wild picking up the balance of what their current contract calls for.

If those guys retire with term remaining on their deals, it will be a total disaster for the Wild. Even if they've been traded elsewhere before retiring.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hole Nova Level »

Lenny5160 wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:07 am
Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:29 am
Hornets wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:50 pm

Are you willing to take a pay cut at your company if they aren't doing well? Didn't think so.
This is a great point actually. They will take a pay cut, but it's not going to be with the Wild. It will be with a Cup contender where Suter can be the 3rd-4th Dman, Parise can be the 2nd-3rd-line winger, they lift the trade clause and take a cut to try to make a run with ANOTHER team.
As DC said, they are contractually ineligible to take a pay cut. They may be paid less by another team, with the Wild picking up the balance of what their current contract calls for.

If those guys retire with term remaining on their deals, it will be a total disaster for the Wild. Even if they've been traded elsewhere before retiring.
Great point, so then the Wild are on the books no matter and we're back to square one. "We're f-cked" with these two. LOL.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by B-Town »

DC4MVP wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:33 pm
Qman65 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 am want to win they need to take a pay cut to make the team better. 7 years in and what have they done? 0. Up to this point it isn't about winning, it's about the money.
Fine and all but the CBA doesn't allow pay cuts/restructures.
:lol:

Yeah, kind of an important point in this discussion.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hornets »

Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:29 am
Hornets wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:50 pm
Qman65 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 am want to win they need to take a pay cut to make the team better. 7 years in and what have they done? 0. Up to this point it isn't about winning, it's about the money.
Are you willing to take a pay cut at your company if they aren't doing well? Didn't think so.
This is a great point actually. They will take a pay cut, but it's not going to be with the Wild. It will be with a Cup contender where Suter can be the 3rd-4th Dman, Parise can be the 2nd-3rd-line winger, they lift the trade clause and take a cut to try to make a run with ANOTHER team.
These 2 love living in Minny and I would be shocked beyond shocked if they don't finish their careers here.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hole Nova Level »

Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:16 pm
Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:29 am
Hornets wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:50 pm

Are you willing to take a pay cut at your company if they aren't doing well? Didn't think so.
This is a great point actually. They will take a pay cut, but it's not going to be with the Wild. It will be with a Cup contender where Suter can be the 3rd-4th Dman, Parise can be the 2nd-3rd-line winger, they lift the trade clause and take a cut to try to make a run with ANOTHER team.
These 2 love living in Minny and I would be shocked beyond shocked if they don't finish their careers here.
Another great point, they either want a chance at a Cup, or they "love MN" over-that (ala Stall). Which leads back to: We are stuck with em'.

Cuz I know they don't care about a Cup.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hornets »

Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:19 pm
Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:16 pm
Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:29 am

This is a great point actually. They will take a pay cut, but it's not going to be with the Wild. It will be with a Cup contender where Suter can be the 3rd-4th Dman, Parise can be the 2nd-3rd-line winger, they lift the trade clause and take a cut to try to make a run with ANOTHER team.
These 2 love living in Minny and I would be shocked beyond shocked if they don't finish their careers here.
Another great point, they either want a chance at a Cup, or they "love MN" over-that (ala Stall). Which leads back to: We are stuck with em'.

Cuz I know they don't care about a Cup.
Zach won a cup with NJ so I don't think he is hell bent on getting another. Suter hasn't, but again, if you're making great money guaranteed for another 6 years in a city that you love there is no sin in being content with that. These 2 guys did nothing wrong by signing these contracts, they were in the right place at the right time. When healthy Zach has performed extremely well and Suter has been a rock back at "D" for his entire time here. Neither have underperformed, they have played the same way their entire careers and I think both will be able to contribute for at least 2-3 more years before father time starts to drag them down. Be angry at the front office if you're not happy about them being here but I for one am THRILLED they are on my team!
Last edited by Hornets on Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DC4MVP
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by DC4MVP »

Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:23 pm
Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:19 pm
Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:16 pm

These 2 love living in Minny and I would be shocked beyond shocked if they don't finish their careers here.
Another great point, they either want a chance at a Cup, or they "love MN" over-that (ala Stall). Which leads back to: We are stuck with em'.

Cuz I know they don't care about a Cup.
My memory is fading....didn't they both win a cup before? ALmost sure Zach did with NJ.
No.

Parise lost in the finals.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hornets »

DC4MVP wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:29 pm
Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:23 pm
Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:19 pm

Another great point, they either want a chance at a Cup, or they "love MN" over-that (ala Stall). Which leads back to: We are stuck with em'.

Cuz I know they don't care about a Cup.
My memory is fading....didn't they both win a cup before? ALmost sure Zach did with NJ.
No.

Parise lost in the finals.
OK, I'm going senile. I thought I properly edited my post....guess I should google this stuff before posting!
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Ask Not »

The $7M number is an average over the length of the contract. Both players were paid in the $13-15M range in real cash early and will make $1M/yr at the end of the contract. If they were to take a pay cut, they'd have to write a check to Leipold or at least pay for free.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hornets »

Ask Not wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:41 pm The $7M number is an average over the length of the contract. Both players were paid in the $13-15M range in real cash early and will make $1M/yr at the end of the contract. If they were to take a pay cut, they'd have to write a check to Leipold or at least pay for free.
I'll take your word on this and if you're correct, these last 6 years shouldn't cause a lot of distress on the salary cap situation. Whew!
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Ask Not »

Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:49 pm
Ask Not wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:41 pm The $7M number is an average over the length of the contract. Both players were paid in the $13-15M range in real cash early and will make $1M/yr at the end of the contract. If they were to take a pay cut, they'd have to write a check to Leipold or at least pay for free.
I'll take your word on this and if you're correct, these last 6 years shouldn't cause a lot of distress on the salary cap situation. Whew!
The salary cap number remains the same. Actual dollars being paid in any given year is up to the player and the organization. Suter and Parise were able to negotiate serious front loading.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hole Nova Level »

Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:49 pm
Ask Not wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:41 pm The $7M number is an average over the length of the contract. Both players were paid in the $13-15M range in real cash early and will make $1M/yr at the end of the contract. If they were to take a pay cut, they'd have to write a check to Leipold or at least pay for free.
I'll take your word on this and if you're correct, these last 6 years shouldn't cause a lot of distress on the salary cap situation. Whew!
Correct the money isn't going to be the problem.

The problem will be is the "entitlement" they have with their spot in the lineup. Suter will take up top-D-man minutes, PP time, etc. Parise the same (pending injury). It will be the old "Cal Ripken" problem, where you got a player holding the team hostage to growth and change, etc. They will be vastly over-valued and their performance won't justify their spot in the lineup, let alone the money.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by jakazz30 »

Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:49 pm
Ask Not wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:41 pm The $7M number is an average over the length of the contract. Both players were paid in the $13-15M range in real cash early and will make $1M/yr at the end of the contract. If they were to take a pay cut, they'd have to write a check to Leipold or at least pay for free.
I'll take your word on this and if you're correct, these last 6 years shouldn't cause a lot of distress on the salary cap situation. Whew!
Both of them will have a cap hit for the remainder of those contracts at $7.5M a season.....
It can't change.

Just accept it....move on.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hornets »

jakazz30 wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:43 pm
Hornets wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:49 pm
Ask Not wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:41 pm The $7M number is an average over the length of the contract. Both players were paid in the $13-15M range in real cash early and will make $1M/yr at the end of the contract. If they were to take a pay cut, they'd have to write a check to Leipold or at least pay for free.
I'll take your word on this and if you're correct, these last 6 years shouldn't cause a lot of distress on the salary cap situation. Whew!
Both of them will have a cap hit for the remainder of those contracts at $7.5M a season.....
It can't change.

Just accept it....move on.
Yep, that's what we need to do....and hope Fenton can get this franchise over the hump!
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Falen's Boyfriend »

Russo filled in for Common on Friday and a caller asked if Suter is a selfish prima donna and Russo again dodged the question.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hole Nova Level »

Falen's Boyfriend wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 9:46 am Russo filled in for Common on Friday and a caller asked if Suter is a selfish prima donna and Russo again dodged the question.
Why even ask at this point.

We have all known that answer for how long now?

Russo for as great of a reporter he is is also part of the problem when it comes to serving this current hockey fan base. He’s done nothin but “avoid” the reality of these players and this team since the baby-Jesus bros arrived. He is a pacifist when it comes to what it takes to win in the nhl and gives the wild a pass every time they puss out and shit the bed.

Russo is a double edged sword.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by RubeTube »

Hole Nova Level wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 10:04 am
Falen's Boyfriend wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 9:46 am Russo filled in for Common on Friday and a caller asked if Suter is a selfish prima donna and Russo again dodged the question.
Why even ask at this point.

We have all known that answer for how long now?

Russo for as great of a reporter he is is also part of the problem when it comes to serving this current hockey fan base. He’s done nothin but “avoid” the reality of these players and this team since the baby-Jesus bros arrived. He is a pacifist when it comes to what it takes to win in the nhl and gives the wild a pass every time they puss out and shit the bed.

Russo is a double edged sword.
Russo is a fruitcake.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by RubeTube »

Cripes these guy's are only half way through their contracts?!? I'm not a Hawkey guy as many of you know but contracts of this nature are absolutely ridiculous.

These guy's didn't get it done in their prime and another 7 year's the skills will be unrecognizable.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Jimtown guy »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 10:03 pm Cripes these guy's are only half way through their contracts?!? I'm not a Hawkey guy as many of you know but contracts of this nature are absolutely ridiculous.

These guy's didn't get it done in their prime and another 7 year's the skills will be unrecognizable.
We are all well aware bud
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by RubeTube »

Jimtown guy wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 10:04 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Mon May 27, 2019 10:03 pm Cripes these guy's are only half way through their contracts?!? I'm not a Hawkey guy as many of you know but contracts of this nature are absolutely ridiculous.

These guy's didn't get it done in their prime and another 7 year's the skills will be unrecognizable.
We are all well aware bud
I just looked it up. I knew therr was many year's left but not that long.

Being a sports fan in general and a great "contract mind" I just can't believe the NHL doesn't do away with these kind of contracts. Are they still a thing?
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Falen's Boyfriend »

In the seven seasons preceding the Parise and Suter acquisitions, the Wild averaged 89.4 points per season.

In the seven seasons since acquiring Parise and Suter, the Wild averaged 90.0 points per season.

Conclusion: The acquisition of Parise and Suter has added NOTHING to the points column.
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Hornets »

:hair:
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Re: If Parise and Suter

Post by Beef Supreme »

I don't follow it super close, but hasn't a big part of the issue been that a bunch of young guys that were supposed to develop through the farm system and provide inexpensive support for Parise and Suter end up not really developing into what the team thought they'd be?

Thus, they've been capped out with Parise and Suter and, while those two have played fairly well, they haven't had the depth required to make any noise in the post-season? Is that right?



But I also agree that 14-year contracts are dumb (but the franchise wasn't forced to give them out). Great for the players, bad for the team.
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