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If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

A place to discuss the MN Vikings
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Ash Ketchum »

We’re probably the most attractive landing spot as far as roster goes for any free agent.

Not saying Cousins would take less to play here, but all things being equal, he might want to come here.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by PurpleFloyd »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:11 am We’re probably the most attractive landing spot as far as roster goes for any free agent.

Not saying Cousins would take less to play here, but all things being equal, he might want to come here.
What do we have that other teams wouldn't? For example Denver.
And I'm not saying he is terrible but what does he offer that any of ours don't? He seemed to make more bad, dumb throws against us than even Case did against them. Did you watch and see how well he played against the Eagles defense?
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by twgerber »

I don't watch Cousins enough to have a strong opinion on him to be honest. He seems to be pretty decent but as their HC said - he wasn't able to elevate those around him - or something to that effect.

It will all come down to money and we dont' know that Washington won't tag him yet.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Ash Ketchum »

PurpleFloyd wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:46 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:11 am We’re probably the most attractive landing spot as far as roster goes for any free agent.

Not saying Cousins would take less to play here, but all things being equal, he might want to come here.
What do we have that other teams wouldn't? For example Denver.
And I'm not saying he is terrible but what does he offer that any of ours don't? He seemed to make more bad, dumb throws against us than even Case did against them. Did you watch and see how well he played against the Eagles defense?
I mean, we have pretty much a Super Bowl caliber roster except for QB as of now.

Denver’s secondary is old and not as much talent across the board.

But I’m not even saying I want to throw $25 million at Cousins. I don’t really.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by VikingsVoice »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:31 pm
Rubetube wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:44 pm
VikingsVoice wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:59 pm Cousins is capable of carrying the offense through the air. He'd be a great fit into what should be an incredibly balanced offense that doesn't ask him to be a hero. He'll have better WR's and RB's than he's ever had in his career.
Then he will get us to the playoffs and throw 4 picks. Cousins is a stat padding, fantasy football QB. He will win you NOTHING when it matters. Same with Alex Smith but he usually doesn't even have the hollow stats. Stay away from these two!
Jay Gruden is a huge underrated aspect of this all. He is one of the best offensive minds in football and is one of the best play callers in football. Cousins has benefitted greatly from Gruden, and I'd be nervous that he won't produce the same without him.

Look at Andy Dalton. Gruden's final season in Cincy was the 2013 season, when Andy Dalton had a career season 4300 yards/33 TDs. That following offseason, Gruden was hired to be the HC of Washington and Dalton has never replicated those 2013 since then.

I'm not saying Cousins isn't good, but the Gruden factor is a thing.
Yeah, hard to measure just what impact he has or had though. I'm guessing Sean McVay helped Cousins' development as much as Gruden given recent evidence of Goff's progression.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Ash Ketchum »

^ I don't disagree. It's probably not as simply as "Cousins with Gruden - good, Cousins without Gruden - bad."

I just look at Dalton as the other main example, though. Cincy's offense really went to shit after he left.

It's just one of the reasons I'd be nervous to basically just anoint Cousins as a Top 5-7 QB based on salary, though.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by VikingsVoice »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm ^ I don't disagree. It's probably not as simply as "Cousins with Gruden - good, Cousins without Gruden - bad."

I just look at Dalton as the other main example, though. Cincy's offense really went to shit after he left.

It's just one of the reasons I'd be nervous to basically just anoint Cousins as a Top 5-7 QB based on salary, though.
Dalton is hard to figure out. He's been productive.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by RubeTube »

VikingsVoice wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:15 pm
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm ^ I don't disagree. It's probably not as simply as "Cousins with Gruden - good, Cousins without Gruden - bad."

I just look at Dalton as the other main example, though. Cincy's offense really went to shit after he left.

It's just one of the reasons I'd be nervous to basically just anoint Cousins as a Top 5-7 QB based on salary, though.
Dalton is hard to figure out. He's been productive.
Dalton is as mediocre as it gets.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by brison »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm ^ I don't disagree. It's probably not as simply as "Cousins with Gruden - good, Cousins without Gruden - bad."

I just look at Dalton as the other main example, though. Cincy's offense really went to shit after he left.

It's just one of the reasons I'd be nervous to basically just anoint Cousins as a Top 5-7 QB based on salary, though.
It's not just based on Salary.

Three straight starting years (only starting years) of over 25 TDs and less than 13 INT and each season over 4,000 yards.
2015: 29 TDs 11 INT, 4,166 yards
2016: 25 TDs 12 INT, 4,917 yards
2017: 27 TDs 13 INT, 4,093 yards

Case just had a pretty good season and he totaled 22 touchdowns and 3,500 yards. The only knock, we've only seen it one season from him.

The name of the game is touchdowns and yards and when you have an above average defense and a true starting QB your team is tough to beat.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Ash Ketchum »

brison wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:35 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm ^ I don't disagree. It's probably not as simply as "Cousins with Gruden - good, Cousins without Gruden - bad."

I just look at Dalton as the other main example, though. Cincy's offense really went to shit after he left.

It's just one of the reasons I'd be nervous to basically just anoint Cousins as a Top 5-7 QB based on salary, though.
It's not just based on Salary.

Three straight starting years (only starting years) of over 25 TDs and less than 13 INT and each season over 4,000 yards.
2015: 29 TDs 11 INT, 4,166 yards
2016: 25 TDs 12 INT, 4,917 yards
2017: 27 TDs 13 INT, 4,093 yards

Case just had a pretty good season and he totaled 22 touchdowns and 3,500 yards. The only knock, we've only seen it one season from him.

The name of the game is touchdowns and yards and when you have an above average defense and a true starting QB your team is tough to beat.
His production in Washington was great. My concern is that he wouldn’t produce the same here. Not saying he definitely wouldn’t, but it’s a concern of mine.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by RubeTube »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:20 am
brison wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:35 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm ^ I don't disagree. It's probably not as simply as "Cousins with Gruden - good, Cousins without Gruden - bad."

I just look at Dalton as the other main example, though. Cincy's offense really went to shit after he left.

It's just one of the reasons I'd be nervous to basically just anoint Cousins as a Top 5-7 QB based on salary, though.
It's not just based on Salary.

Three straight starting years (only starting years) of over 25 TDs and less than 13 INT and each season over 4,000 yards.
2015: 29 TDs 11 INT, 4,166 yards
2016: 25 TDs 12 INT, 4,917 yards
2017: 27 TDs 13 INT, 4,093 yards

Case just had a pretty good season and he totaled 22 touchdowns and 3,500 yards. The only knock, we've only seen it one season from him.

The name of the game is touchdowns and yards and when you have an above average defense and a true starting QB your team is tough to beat.
His production in Washington was great. My concern is that he wouldn’t produce the same here. Not saying he definitely wouldn’t, but it’s a concern of mine.
And with those season numbers, Keenum has more playoff wins over that span. I don't want to hear they have a bad team in Washington either. The made the playoffs in 2015 and he played bad against a putrid Packers defense. In 2016 they had to beat the Giants at home to make the playoffs and he threw a pick on the game winning drive. They did suck in 2017.

Point is... This guy is going to be paid like a top 5 QB. Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford etc.. Cqn play on a shitty team and elevate it. Cousins can't and he is about to be paid like that. Stay far away from this guy!
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by twgerber »

brison wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:35 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm ^ I don't disagree. It's probably not as simply as "Cousins with Gruden - good, Cousins without Gruden - bad."

I just look at Dalton as the other main example, though. Cincy's offense really went to shit after he left.

It's just one of the reasons I'd be nervous to basically just anoint Cousins as a Top 5-7 QB based on salary, though.
It's not just based on Salary.

Three straight starting years (only starting years) of over 25 TDs and less than 13 INT and each season over 4,000 yards.
2015: 29 TDs 11 INT, 4,166 yards
2016: 25 TDs 12 INT, 4,917 yards
2017: 27 TDs 13 INT, 4,093 yards

Case just had a pretty good season and he totaled 22 touchdowns and 3,500 yards. The only knock, we've only seen it one season from him.

The name of the game is touchdowns and yards and when you have an above average defense and a true starting QB your team is tough to beat.
Case didn't play all 16 games or I think he easily would have had similar numbers.

And you can't just look at numbers.

Cousins always seems like a guy who has a lot of energy and has good sound bites but the team hasn't really won much. Is it him? I don't know I just get a weird feeling about the guy.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by HeHateMe »

Didn't Cousins have TJ Clemmings blocking for him at certain points this year? The money won't be equal but if it was, no question I'd take Cousins over Keenum. Like others say/think, they just have to do their due diligence on all these options. I think it's wrong to just decide OK Case is our guy next year and that's that.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by VikingsVoice »

Given what we just saw out of Keenum and what we know about Washington's historically dysfunctional franchise, I don't really understand the fear that Cousins would come here and turn into a pumpkin. He'd have more support here on and off the field than perhaps he ever did in Washington, especially after Shanahan was canned.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by VikingsVoice »

This time last year if given the choice between Cousins and Keenum, the correct response would have been laughter.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by MikeHunt »

I just can't believe the anti-Case posts. 13-4 as a starter. Has an uncanny knack for getting out of a pressured pocket. Can run and makes good throws on the run. If you look at this team Overall. Case/QB is far from the biggest problem. Reward him with a 3-5 year incentive deal. Bottom end 13-15 million. Top end 20 million. IF the Vikings let Case walk for Teddy, it will be a disaster IMO.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by VikingsVoice »

MikeHunt wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:05 am I just can't believe the anti-Case posts. 13-4 as a starter. Has an uncanny knack for getting out of a pressured pocket. Can run and makes good throws on the run. If you look at this team Overall. Case/QB is far from the biggest problem. Reward him with a 3-5 year incentive deal. Bottom end 13-15 million. Top end 20 million. IF the Vikings let Case walk for Teddy, it will be a disaster IMO.
Case is elite at avoiding pressure in the pocket. He's average or below average at everything else. I think we should be trying to upgrade.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by twgerber »

Transition tag Keenum
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by VikingsVoice »

twgerber wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:18 am Transition tag Keenum
What's the salary number on transition tag this year? Is that where we can choose the round to tender him but have to pay him a salary tied to the round? Too lazy to look it up right now.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by twgerber »

VikingsVoice wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:36 am
twgerber wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:18 am Transition tag Keenum
What's the salary number on transition tag this year? Is that where we can choose the round to tender him but have to pay him a salary tied to the round? Too lazy to look it up right now.
The exclusive franchise tag makes the club using it the only one permitted to negotiate with the player. The player is guaranteed a one-year tender that is the average of the top five salaries at his position for that current season or 120 percent of his previous season’s salary, whichever figure is higher.

The non-exclusive franchise tag is also a one-year tender but the process of arriving at the number is more involved. Basically, the top five salaries at the player’s position over the past five seasons is determined and then it is weighed against the percentage of the salary cap for each season. Generally speaking, this will make it a little lower than the exclusive tag. The player is allowed to negotiate with other teams but the current team has the ability to match any offer or it will receive two first-round draft picks as compensation. That compensation is such that it is very rare for non-exclusive franchise tag players to actually change teams this way. Miller is a rarity because typically the only players to get the exclusive franchise tag are quarterbacks.

The transition tag is determined in the same manner as the non-exclusive franchise tag although it is the average of the top 10 players at the position. The club has the right of first refusal if the player negotiates a contract with another team but there is no compensation if it declines.

So maybe the Non-Exclusive tag is what I really meant so the vikings can get draft picks if he is signed away?
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Tuck ya in »

Face The Facts wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:35 pm Spielman doesn't have a brain.

His most successful players are people he never drafted.

His least successful players are his first round picks.

You're just not a very bright guy, are you?
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Tuck ya in »

PurpleFloyd wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:43 pm I would think they would sign Case to the non exclusive franchise tag. After reading up on that, he would be free to negotiate with other teams and if he signs elsewhere then we would get 2-#1 draft picks.
Very interesting.... :thinking:
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Tuck ya in »

So some folks want Cousins and his high future salary here?.....But yet his current team doesn't even want him?..... :thinking:
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by JigglyPuff »

Vikings aren't making the playoffs next year. No need to overspend for a QB. Just draft one.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by twgerber »

JigglyPuff wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:17 am Vikings aren't making the playoffs next year. No need to overspend for a QB. Just draft one.
Billiant :lol:
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by hategreenticemase »

Djking wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:41 pm I'm all for it. This team has a small 2-3 yr window left with this current group. Cousins basically unseated RG3 after being drafted 4 rounds later by mistake. And now they won't let him go. He is a gamer and is carrying that sorry team and they know it. He is worth 25-30 mil a season in this market. After 2020 the window closes again on this team unless Spielman hits the lottery these next few drafts. Might as well go all in and see if we can get one. This team is built to win games. They just need a QB that takes them over the top.

But...

There will guaranteed at least be 5 other teams willing to pay top dollar in the mix. So who knows if he would even want to play here. Maybe he rather stay warm in Jacksonville or Arizona or if he has to freeze do it in Denver. They are similar situation to us. And then there is Cleveland.

Brees is my second choice if he becomes available I'd offer same for him on a 1-2yr deal.

Otherwise it's just hope we can squeeze another miracle season out of someone with upside. Teddy is the big unknown. I thought the kid played with guts and think he is capable of being better than Case. Draft a QB in the 1st if you like one. And hope one of them pans out. With Sloter the wild card developmental QB.
Let me see if I have this straight, you'd rather have Kirk cousins rather than drew Brees? :lol:
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Phrooster »

Deep Purple wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:42 pm Cousin Kurt has won how many playoff games?? How many division titles?? OH wait its the coaching and lack of a slot receiver. got it.
Good point Alex Smith might be a better option maybe
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Djking »

[/quote]

Let me see if I have this straight, you'd rather have Kirk cousins rather than drew Brees? :lol:
[/quote]

Factoring in age yes. If we could have both. Kirk could corner stone our team for the next 5-8-10 years. Brees is rental on a HOFer playing the home stretch of his career. I think both are capable of taking this team to the next level. With cousins giving Rick someone to build around instead of being back on the QB carrousel again in a few years.
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Hornets »

Brees is not coming here and those that think there is a chance in hell of that happening just quite frankly have no inkling of what is going on in life. I do like Cousins a bit more than Case, but is he worth 25-30 million/year? I'll leave that decision to Spieldope and trust he knows more than us!
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Re: If Spielman Has Half A Brain, Cousins Is In Purple Next Season

Post by Oscar »

Keenum vs Cousins against 2017 playoff teams-

Keenum
PIT, LA, ATL, CAR, NO, PHI
152-237, 1,543 Yards, 64%, 7 TD’s, 5 INT’s

Cousins
PHI(2), LA, KC, MN, NO
133-208, 1,591 Yards, 64%, 11 TD’s, 3 INT’s

Keenum went 3-3, Cousins 1-5

The Vikings put up 25 passing TD’s and 15 rushing TD’s on the season.

The Redskins put up 27 passing TD’s and 10 rushing TD’s on the season.

How many times this season did you hear the Vikings defense has the best 3rd down percentage? It should mean more opportunities for the offense to score, right?

Vikings only had 3 more total TD’s then Washington?

Cousins would help the Vikings put teams away on offense. It’s a no brainer.
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