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We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

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Oriole81
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm

We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

all by just getting rid of Cousins next year, along with Barr, Rudolph, Bailey, Colquitt, Ham.

We do not need to bleed down the entire roster.

If we get the right QB next year, get some progressions from the last 2 draft classes and get one more good class in 2021, we're back in 2022 with a ton of space to fill in the holes immediately.
Do not set us back further by trading key vets that can be here long term like Kendricks and Thielen. We can even afford to extend Harrison if there's mutual interest.

Some of you guys on here are taking this "rebuild" way to the extreme.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Da Gas Man
Posts: 20318
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:26 am

Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Da Gas Man »

Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:25 am all by just getting rid of Cousins next year, along with Barr, Rudolph, Bailey, Colquitt, Ham.

We do not need to bleed down the entire roster.

If we get the right QB next year, get some progressions from the last 2 draft classes and get one more good class in 2021, we're back in 2022 with a ton of space to fill in the holes immediately.
Do not set us back further by trading key vets that can be here long term like Kendricks and Thielen. We can even afford to extend Harrison if there's mutual interest.

Some of you guys on here are taking this "rebuild" way to the extreme.
I would add Reiff as well although that was likely presumed. If they do just that, they should draft a QB this year and let him sit behind a veteran like Dalton or Fitz.

That being said, I would plan to cut Harrison. He has no dead cap and if they cut Cousins, they will need more room for 2021. But more importantly, the reason to cut Smith is that he is not part of the future in 2022. He is 31 now. when the 2022 season begins, he will be 33. It's time to move on. Yes, he still might be very serviceable at 33 "at the right price" but this team needs to stop doing that. Paying older players because they are afraid of the younger players. Yes, Smith can be good till he is mid 30s but that implies the window will be open at that time. The goal is to find a franchise QB so the window can open every year or be only one year away for a decade.

And Harrison is one of my favorite players.
hategreenticemase
Posts: 21497
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:34 pm

Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by hategreenticemase »

Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:13 am
Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:25 am all by just getting rid of Cousins next year, along with Barr, Rudolph, Bailey, Colquitt, Ham.

We do not need to bleed down the entire roster.

If we get the right QB next year, get some progressions from the last 2 draft classes and get one more good class in 2021, we're back in 2022 with a ton of space to fill in the holes immediately.
Do not set us back further by trading key vets that can be here long term like Kendricks and Thielen. We can even afford to extend Harrison if there's mutual interest.

Some of you guys on here are taking this "rebuild" way to the extreme.
I would add Reiff as well although that was likely presumed. If they do just that, they should draft a QB this year and let him sit behind a veteran like Dalton or Fitz.

That being said, I would plan to cut Harrison. He has no dead cap and if they cut Cousins, they will need more room for 2021. But more importantly, the reason to cut Smith is that he is not part of the future in 2022. He is 31 now. when the 2022 season begins, he will be 33. It's time to move on. Yes, he still might be very serviceable at 33 "at the right price" but this team needs to stop doing that. Paying older players because they are afraid of the younger players. Yes, Smith can be good till he is mid 30s but that implies the window will be open at that time. The goal is to find a franchise QB so the window can open every year or be only one year away for a decade.

And Harrison is one of my favorite players.
Nope, you are flat out wrong. The thing needing to be remembered with Smith is intelligence is one of his biggest assets. I believe he can be high level another 4-5 years. You saw how much he impacts the game the 2nd half of Houston.

I dont like his age, and logically what you said makes sense, but I want him mentoring young dbs especially since Zim likely will be gone and captaining the resurgence. Affordable, smart, huhh performing player. We need more of those not less.
Oriole81
Posts: 25354
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:13 am
Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:25 am all by just getting rid of Cousins next year, along with Barr, Rudolph, Bailey, Colquitt, Ham.

We do not need to bleed down the entire roster.

If we get the right QB next year, get some progressions from the last 2 draft classes and get one more good class in 2021, we're back in 2022 with a ton of space to fill in the holes immediately.
Do not set us back further by trading key vets that can be here long term like Kendricks and Thielen. We can even afford to extend Harrison if there's mutual interest.

Some of you guys on here are taking this "rebuild" way to the extreme.
I would add Reiff as well although that was likely presumed. If they do just that, they should draft a QB this year and let him sit behind a veteran like Dalton or Fitz.

That being said, I would plan to cut Harrison. He has no dead cap and if they cut Cousins, they will need more room for 2021. But more importantly, the reason to cut Smith is that he is not part of the future in 2022. He is 31 now. when the 2022 season begins, he will be 33. It's time to move on. Yes, he still might be very serviceable at 33 "at the right price" but this team needs to stop doing that. Paying older players because they are afraid of the younger players. Yes, Smith can be good till he is mid 30s but that implies the window will be open at that time. The goal is to find a franchise QB so the window can open every year or be only one year away for a decade.

And Harrison is one of my favorite players.
Reiff is already off the books in this calculation as his contract expires after 2021 anyway. He should be gone after this year anyway.

I personally think Harrison still can be a part of the future, but I do understand the other side as well and would be fine with moving on from him, especially if we could get a premium pick.
But some of the guys talking on here about wanting to move Thielen and Kendricks too are the true ones that really baffle like me. Like all they see is that they have a bigger contract and just assume they need to go, but that's not the case.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
Oriole81
Posts: 25354
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:19 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:13 am
Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:25 am all by just getting rid of Cousins next year, along with Barr, Rudolph, Bailey, Colquitt, Ham.

We do not need to bleed down the entire roster.

If we get the right QB next year, get some progressions from the last 2 draft classes and get one more good class in 2021, we're back in 2022 with a ton of space to fill in the holes immediately.
Do not set us back further by trading key vets that can be here long term like Kendricks and Thielen. We can even afford to extend Harrison if there's mutual interest.

Some of you guys on here are taking this "rebuild" way to the extreme.
I would add Reiff as well although that was likely presumed. If they do just that, they should draft a QB this year and let him sit behind a veteran like Dalton or Fitz.

That being said, I would plan to cut Harrison. He has no dead cap and if they cut Cousins, they will need more room for 2021. But more importantly, the reason to cut Smith is that he is not part of the future in 2022. He is 31 now. when the 2022 season begins, he will be 33. It's time to move on. Yes, he still might be very serviceable at 33 "at the right price" but this team needs to stop doing that. Paying older players because they are afraid of the younger players. Yes, Smith can be good till he is mid 30s but that implies the window will be open at that time. The goal is to find a franchise QB so the window can open every year or be only one year away for a decade.

And Harrison is one of my favorite players.
Nope, you are flat out wrong. The thing needing to be remembered with Smith is intelligence is one of his biggest assets. I believe he can be high level another 4-5 years. You saw how much he impacts the game the 2nd half of Houston.

I dont like his age, and logically what you said makes sense, but I want him mentoring young dbs especially since Zim likely will be gone and captaining the resurgence. Affordable, smart, huhh performing player. We need more of those not less.
I think price will go along way in determining Harrison's longevity. Considering the guaranteed money on his contract is up, we should be in regular contact wit h his agent about what they're thinking regarding long term plans. Considering he's made $50M already in his career, he may not be interested in breaking the bank again on this final contract ($14M+ per year), and could take one perhaps in the similar $10M range or so that he's getting now.

I could be onboard with another contract at $10M or so.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Da Gas Man
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Da Gas Man »

hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:19 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:13 am
Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:25 am all by just getting rid of Cousins next year, along with Barr, Rudolph, Bailey, Colquitt, Ham.

We do not need to bleed down the entire roster.

If we get the right QB next year, get some progressions from the last 2 draft classes and get one more good class in 2021, we're back in 2022 with a ton of space to fill in the holes immediately.
Do not set us back further by trading key vets that can be here long term like Kendricks and Thielen. We can even afford to extend Harrison if there's mutual interest.

Some of you guys on here are taking this "rebuild" way to the extreme.
I would add Reiff as well although that was likely presumed. If they do just that, they should draft a QB this year and let him sit behind a veteran like Dalton or Fitz.

That being said, I would plan to cut Harrison. He has no dead cap and if they cut Cousins, they will need more room for 2021. But more importantly, the reason to cut Smith is that he is not part of the future in 2022. He is 31 now. when the 2022 season begins, he will be 33. It's time to move on. Yes, he still might be very serviceable at 33 "at the right price" but this team needs to stop doing that. Paying older players because they are afraid of the younger players. Yes, Smith can be good till he is mid 30s but that implies the window will be open at that time. The goal is to find a franchise QB so the window can open every year or be only one year away for a decade.

And Harrison is one of my favorite players.
Nope, you are flat out wrong. The thing needing to be remembered with Smith is intelligence is one of his biggest assets. I believe he can be high level another 4-5 years. You saw how much he impacts the game the 2nd half of Houston.

I dont like his age, and logically what you said makes sense, but I want him mentoring young dbs especially since Zim likely will be gone and captaining the resurgence. Affordable, smart, huhh performing player. We need more of those not less.
So if he can't do it physically anymore (or at least not where it used to be) but has the savvy, how much is that worth? How much are you paying your player/coach? I'm on board with negotiating him down.

Also, you are evaluating Smith NOW whilst biased with his current play. We are talking about a season that is almost two years away. Your presumption that he will still be good enough in two years is possibly off. Also, it's not like he will be great until those 4-5 years pass and then he will fall off. It will be a gradual decline.

I think we agree but I expect him to be more expensive than a player/coach is worth. If you are keeping a player because he can mentor younger players, then you are looking for an excuse to keep a player that you like. I like him too. We are talking two years from now.
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Da Gas Man
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Da Gas Man »

Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:24 am
hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:19 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:13 am

I would add Reiff as well although that was likely presumed. If they do just that, they should draft a QB this year and let him sit behind a veteran like Dalton or Fitz.

That being said, I would plan to cut Harrison. He has no dead cap and if they cut Cousins, they will need more room for 2021. But more importantly, the reason to cut Smith is that he is not part of the future in 2022. He is 31 now. when the 2022 season begins, he will be 33. It's time to move on. Yes, he still might be very serviceable at 33 "at the right price" but this team needs to stop doing that. Paying older players because they are afraid of the younger players. Yes, Smith can be good till he is mid 30s but that implies the window will be open at that time. The goal is to find a franchise QB so the window can open every year or be only one year away for a decade.

And Harrison is one of my favorite players.
Nope, you are flat out wrong. The thing needing to be remembered with Smith is intelligence is one of his biggest assets. I believe he can be high level another 4-5 years. You saw how much he impacts the game the 2nd half of Houston.

I dont like his age, and logically what you said makes sense, but I want him mentoring young dbs especially since Zim likely will be gone and captaining the resurgence. Affordable, smart, huhh performing player. We need more of those not less.
I think price will go along way in determining Harrison's longevity. Considering the guaranteed money on his contract is up, we should be in regular contact wit h his agent about what they're thinking regarding long term plans. Considering he's made $50M already in his career, he may not be interested in breaking the bank again on this final contract ($14M+ per year), and could take one perhaps in the similar $10M range or so that he's getting now.

I could be onboard with another contract at $10M or so.
I agree. If he wants to negotiate down to 4 years, $40 (first year being next year) with 25 guaranteed (first 2.5 years), that is a tolerable contract, because you are done with his guaranteed money when he is 34.
Last edited by Da Gas Man on Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oriole81
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

This thing with Harrison Smith is a perfect reason of why they should have drafted Winfield last year.
I think they had to know going into the draft that Harris was not going to be here long term anyway, and that they may not be able to afford Harrison past this current contract.

Having an option like Winfield in house, in addition to the obvious on the field play, makes negotiating with Harrison that much easier. As it stands right now, we have zero options for long term safety, which makes it more difficult to play hardball.

And as I've said on here multiple times, we had ample trade capital to still squeeze out Winfield without sacrificing any of Gladney, Dantzler or OT (may have had to settle for Josh Jones instead of Ezra, but that's okay.)
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
hategreenticemase
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by hategreenticemase »

Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:28 am
hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:19 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:13 am

I would add Reiff as well although that was likely presumed. If they do just that, they should draft a QB this year and let him sit behind a veteran like Dalton or Fitz.

That being said, I would plan to cut Harrison. He has no dead cap and if they cut Cousins, they will need more room for 2021. But more importantly, the reason to cut Smith is that he is not part of the future in 2022. He is 31 now. when the 2022 season begins, he will be 33. It's time to move on. Yes, he still might be very serviceable at 33 "at the right price" but this team needs to stop doing that. Paying older players because they are afraid of the younger players. Yes, Smith can be good till he is mid 30s but that implies the window will be open at that time. The goal is to find a franchise QB so the window can open every year or be only one year away for a decade.

And Harrison is one of my favorite players.
Nope, you are flat out wrong. The thing needing to be remembered with Smith is intelligence is one of his biggest assets. I believe he can be high level another 4-5 years. You saw how much he impacts the game the 2nd half of Houston.

I dont like his age, and logically what you said makes sense, but I want him mentoring young dbs especially since Zim likely will be gone and captaining the resurgence. Affordable, smart, huhh performing player. We need more of those not less.
So if he can't do it physically anymore (or at least not where it used to be) but has the savvy, how much is that worth? How much are you paying your player/coach? I'm on board with negotiating him down.

Also, you are evaluating Smith NOW whilst biased with his current play. We are talking about a season that is almost two years away. Your presumption that he will still be good enough in two years is possibly off. Also, it's not like he will be great until those 4-5 years pass and then he will fall off. It will be a gradual decline.

I think we agree but I expect him to be more expensive than a player/coach is worth. If you are keeping a player because he can mentor younger players, then you are looking for an excuse to keep a player that you like. I like him too. We are talking two years from now.
I think he is the kind of athlete who can sustain til he is in that age range, and whatever step he loses will be made up for with his savvy. He doesnt rely solely on speed now. He is an instinctual, physical player who plays the game fast. Obviously I am just "predicting" but right now he is still a top 5 S in the game, and I think he can be that as a ceiling and a floor of "good" til 23 or 24.

Obviously the contract needs to be reasonable as well, and I would think would be.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Ash Ketchum »

This is assuming we cut Cousins before the third day of the 2021 league year and absorb the massive $41 million dead money number for 2021, right?
Oriole81
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:10 am This is assuming we cut Cousins before the third day of the 2021 league year and absorb the massive $41 million dead money number for 2021, right?
Correct.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Da Gas Man
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Da Gas Man »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:10 am This is assuming we cut Cousins before the third day of the 2021 league year and absorb the massive $41 million dead money number for 2021, right?
Yes. I think he is using that in his calculations.

I would say this: To keep him for 2021 because of the cap hit and guarantee 2022 is the prototypical chasing a bad decision. The most difficult thing to do in any money sport (gambling or the like) is knowing when to cut your losses. Making a decision based on money already spent is using sunk costs as a variable.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Ash Ketchum »

Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:13 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:10 am This is assuming we cut Cousins before the third day of the 2021 league year and absorb the massive $41 million dead money number for 2021, right?
Yes. I think he is using that in his calculations.

I would say this: To keep him for 2021 because of the cap hit and guarantee 2022 is the prototypical chasing a bad decision. The most difficult thing to do in any money sport (gambling or the like) is knowing when to cut your losses. Making a decision based on money already spent is using sunk costs as a variable.
Oh for sure. I'm resigned to the fact that that is likely to be the correct strategy at this point. Was just curious as it pertains to this original post.
Oriole81
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:13 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:10 am This is assuming we cut Cousins before the third day of the 2021 league year and absorb the massive $41 million dead money number for 2021, right?
Yes. I think he is using that in his calculations.

I would say this: To keep him for 2021 because of the cap hit and guarantee 2022 is the prototypical chasing a bad decision. The most difficult thing to do in any money sport (gambling or the like) is knowing when to cut your losses. Making a decision based on money already spent is using sunk costs as a variable.
Absolutely agree.
And the thing is, it's not even that much of a difference from a cap standpoint. I get that on the surface $41M in dead cap sounds bad, but he's already at $31M if he's on the roster anyway. It's not like he's down at $15M or something and jumps up to $41M if we want to get rid of him.

We're only adding an additional $10M to the cap. That should be easy to account for.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
User avatar
Da Gas Man
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Da Gas Man »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:15 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:13 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:10 am This is assuming we cut Cousins before the third day of the 2021 league year and absorb the massive $41 million dead money number for 2021, right?
Yes. I think he is using that in his calculations.

I would say this: To keep him for 2021 because of the cap hit and guarantee 2022 is the prototypical chasing a bad decision. The most difficult thing to do in any money sport (gambling or the like) is knowing when to cut your losses. Making a decision based on money already spent is using sunk costs as a variable.
Oh for sure. I'm resigned to the fact that that is likely to be the correct strategy at this point. Was just curious as it pertains to this original post.
I figured. Halfway through my post, I realized that you were simply asking if the OP was taking that into his calculations and you weren't questioning the actual decision. But hey, I already typed it so I left it in.
D_H
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by D_H »

Need to trade Harrison, Adam Thielen and Kyle Rudolph this year somehow
Oriole81
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

D_H wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:35 pm Need to trade Harrison, Adam Thielen and Kyle Rudolph this year somehow
no you don't.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
hategreenticemase
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by hategreenticemase »

A. Is there any plausible way to trade the fucker?
B. Am I right that would then cut in half his cap for next year?
Oriole81
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 pm A. Is there any plausible way to trade the fucker?
B. Am I right that would then cut in half his cap for next year?
A) I don't believe that we'd be able to trade him. I would be happy with anything though.
B) Yes, if we can trade him that leaves our 2021 cap hit at $20M.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
hategreenticemase
Posts: 21497
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by hategreenticemase »

Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:42 pm
hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 pm A. Is there any plausible way to trade the fucker?
B. Am I right that would then cut in half his cap for next year?
A) I don't believe that we'd be able to trade him. I would be happy with anything though.
B) Yes, if we can trade him that leaves our 2021 cap hit at $20M.
Would that totally change your approach then? Lets just say, for hypothetical purposes, we finish with 8th pick and we are NOT getting one of the big 3 qb's.

Lets say we trade Rudolph for a 5th, we luck into a 3rd for Reiff. Cousins we get a box of chocolates.

Would you then try to parlay the 8th pick into two number ones and move down, take a G and a NT? Punt on qb and sign a guy like Fitz, take a flyer on a qb later, and then that is first pick in next draft? Or do whatever you have to move up for the top 3 guy?

Seems like we would have enough cap space to sign a legit G, maybe a corner, maybe a 3rd receiver etc, and maybe we are right back in it next year?
Oriole81
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:51 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:42 pm
hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 pm A. Is there any plausible way to trade the fucker?
B. Am I right that would then cut in half his cap for next year?
A) I don't believe that we'd be able to trade him. I would be happy with anything though.
B) Yes, if we can trade him that leaves our 2021 cap hit at $20M.
Would that totally change your approach then? Lets just say, for hypothetical purposes, we finish with 8th pick and we are NOT getting one of the big 3 qb's.

Lets say we trade Rudolph for a 5th, we luck into a 3rd for Reiff. Cousins we get a box of chocolates.

Would you then try to parlay the 8th pick into two number ones and move down, take a G and a NT? Punt on qb and sign a guy like Fitz, take a flyer on a qb later, and then that is first pick in next draft? Or do whatever you have to move up for the top 3 guy?

Seems like we would have enough cap space to sign a legit G, maybe a corner, maybe a 3rd receiver etc, and maybe we are right back in it next year?
First off, I don't individually scout, so I'm not going to pretend to be able to break down how valuable any of the QB prospects actually are, but I do think I know value, historical data and team building pretty well.

With that in mind, I think I'd be more inclined to trade up and get our QB of the future.

*We still have 10 guys from the 2019 draft that I see having a future with us over the next few years.
*We had 15 draft picks this year (swap out Luther Kirk for Brian Cole), plus Jordan Brailford may stick around too.
*We already have 14 picks scheduled for next year if you include all the comp picks we should get. Add on to that any of the picks we can get for vets like Harris, Rudolph, Reiff, etc.

Volume is not our problem, our problem is top end talent. We are long overdue for trading up and consolidating for more targetted top end players, and there's no time better to look to do that than when you're in the reach for a true potential franchise QB.

We have the ammo to go up and get our guy, should they find a guy that warrants it.
Our keys vets should still be at their peak for most of that rookie QB's first contract, which is the most important window for us. Don't push it off.
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Palmeirense
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Palmeirense »

Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:16 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:13 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:10 am This is assuming we cut Cousins before the third day of the 2021 league year and absorb the massive $41 million dead money number for 2021, right?
Yes. I think he is using that in his calculations.

I would say this: To keep him for 2021 because of the cap hit and guarantee 2022 is the prototypical chasing a bad decision. The most difficult thing to do in any money sport (gambling or the like) is knowing when to cut your losses. Making a decision based on money already spent is using sunk costs as a variable.
Absolutely agree.
And the thing is, it's not even that much of a difference from a cap standpoint. I get that on the surface $41M in dead cap sounds bad, but he's already at $31M if he's on the roster anyway. It's not like he's down at $15M or something and jumps up to $41M if we want to get rid of him.

We're only adding an additional $10M to the cap. That should be easy to account for.
For what it's worth, we can designate it as a post-6/1 cut. This lets the cap hit for 2021 remain at $31m and we take the $10m hit in 2022.
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

Palmeirense wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:47 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:16 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:13 am

Yes. I think he is using that in his calculations.

I would say this: To keep him for 2021 because of the cap hit and guarantee 2022 is the prototypical chasing a bad decision. The most difficult thing to do in any money sport (gambling or the like) is knowing when to cut your losses. Making a decision based on money already spent is using sunk costs as a variable.
Absolutely agree.
And the thing is, it's not even that much of a difference from a cap standpoint. I get that on the surface $41M in dead cap sounds bad, but he's already at $31M if he's on the roster anyway. It's not like he's down at $15M or something and jumps up to $41M if we want to get rid of him.

We're only adding an additional $10M to the cap. That should be easy to account for.
For what it's worth, we can designate it as a post-6/1 cut. This lets the cap hit for 2021 remain at $31m and we take the $10m hit in 2022.
good point.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

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D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by HeHateMe »

hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 pm A. Is there any plausible way to trade the fucker?
B. Am I right that would then cut in half his cap for next year?
Just a question... wasn't there an entire thread on what to do with Cousins? I posted the write up from the over the cap guy who laid out all the options.
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Tmoney »

If you hit on the QB you spend like crazy when he is on his rookie deal and surround him with the best team you can.

After that you hope he can cover deficiencies, and elevate the team around him.

If you dont have a guy that can do that you have what we have now, good and bad seasons depending on schedule and the level of QB play you get
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Oriole81 »

Tmoney wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:27 pm If you hit on the QB you spend like crazy when he is on his rookie deal and surround him with the best team you can.

After that you hope he can cover deficiencies, and elevate the team around him.

If you dont have a guy that can do that you have what we have now, good and bad seasons depending on schedule and the level of QB play you get
exactly, and I think "spend like crazy" also equates to keeping select veterans through the tough times.
as I said, we're going to be close to $100M in new cap money come 2022. that gives us the ability to do anything we want already.

Trading Thielen, Kendricks plus some other(s) may give us another $25-$30M, but we don't need that much money. it's just going to create two new big holes that need to be filled just the same.
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A Iverson, K Irving
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T Duncan, B McAdoo
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by mglviks »

The Rudy signing is just beyond dreadful.

No one liked it at all at the time. Just looks worse and worse every week that passes.

Spent a high pick on Irv for what?
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Hornets »

hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:19 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:13 am
Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:25 am all by just getting rid of Cousins next year, along with Barr, Rudolph, Bailey, Colquitt, Ham.

We do not need to bleed down the entire roster.

If we get the right QB next year, get some progressions from the last 2 draft classes and get one more good class in 2021, we're back in 2022 with a ton of space to fill in the holes immediately.
Do not set us back further by trading key vets that can be here long term like Kendricks and Thielen. We can even afford to extend Harrison if there's mutual interest.

Some of you guys on here are taking this "rebuild" way to the extreme.
I would add Reiff as well although that was likely presumed. If they do just that, they should draft a QB this year and let him sit behind a veteran like Dalton or Fitz.

That being said, I would plan to cut Harrison. He has no dead cap and if they cut Cousins, they will need more room for 2021. But more importantly, the reason to cut Smith is that he is not part of the future in 2022. He is 31 now. when the 2022 season begins, he will be 33. It's time to move on. Yes, he still might be very serviceable at 33 "at the right price" but this team needs to stop doing that. Paying older players because they are afraid of the younger players. Yes, Smith can be good till he is mid 30s but that implies the window will be open at that time. The goal is to find a franchise QB so the window can open every year or be only one year away for a decade.

And Harrison is one of my favorite players.
Nope, you are flat out wrong. The thing needing to be remembered with Smith is intelligence is one of his biggest assets. I believe he can be high level another 4-5 years. You saw how much he impacts the game the 2nd half of Houston.

I dont like his age, and logically what you said makes sense, but I want him mentoring young dbs especially since Zim likely will be gone and captaining the resurgence. Affordable, smart, huhh performing player. We need more of those not less.
I agree with Da Gas Man on this! It's the coaches job to mentor youngsters and if a rebuild is needed here then Smith has to go....along with several others.
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Florida Guy »

Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:42 pm
hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 pm A. Is there any plausible way to trade the fucker?
B. Am I right that would then cut in half his cap for next year?
A) I don't believe that we'd be able to trade him. I would be happy with anything though.
B) Yes, if we can trade him that leaves our 2021 cap hit at $20M.
Answer to B is tough to answer. The overall answer is yes. We could gain cap space next year. The problem is about $6.56m of dead money that would go to this year ($10.5m prorated for about 62.5% of the season). We would need to somehow clear another $3m+ to make it work this year. We could do that with a restructuring of someone or a trade of Reiff or someone else.

Long story longer, I can’t imagine it would ever happen but it would be fabulous if they somehow could!!!
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Re: We can have close to $100M in cap space in 2022

Post by Florida Guy »

Palmeirense wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:47 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:16 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:13 am

Yes. I think he is using that in his calculations.

I would say this: To keep him for 2021 because of the cap hit and guarantee 2022 is the prototypical chasing a bad decision. The most difficult thing to do in any money sport (gambling or the like) is knowing when to cut your losses. Making a decision based on money already spent is using sunk costs as a variable.
Absolutely agree.
And the thing is, it's not even that much of a difference from a cap standpoint. I get that on the surface $41M in dead cap sounds bad, but he's already at $31M if he's on the roster anyway. It's not like he's down at $15M or something and jumps up to $41M if we want to get rid of him.

We're only adding an additional $10M to the cap. That should be easy to account for.
For what it's worth, we can designate it as a post-6/1 cut. This lets the cap hit for 2021 remain at $31m and we take the $10m hit in 2022.
Can we designated him for June 1 and cut him on day 1 of new league year if he has a guaranteed kicker on day 3 of league new year? I’m under the impression you can do J1 cuts when they have kickers that go into effect before June 1.

I don’t say this with a ton of confidence though.
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