Since the Cousins haters...

[RubeTube]

Are out in full force. I remind you that this offense is being run absolutely terribly. .

So here is a bet for any froobs wlling to take it.. Sign your name if you are willing.

Our next QB won't be as good as Cousins. Some of you are complete morons and think anyone will be better than you know, the guy with the 9th best rating of all time.

Hey Cunningham, how is Haskins doing in Washington? Uffda.

Am I saying it isn't time to move on from all of this? No.

But you tards do realize that this team usually has a worse QB than Cousins right? I mean, he the first guy who even played two consecutive seasons without missing a game since Fran.

Don't worry, the next one we get is going to be a sure fire HOFer.

And Cunningham, quit bumping old threads. You have spoke at nauseam how Rick missed out not drafting Dwayne Haskins and I don't care to bump it.

Cousins will do some wonderful things if he gets under the tutelage of Shannanhan in San Fran or McVay in LA.

No QB is succeeding here under Zims offense with this Oline.

[cunningham]

Are out in full force. I remind you that this offense is being run absolutely terribly. .

So here is a bet for any froobs wlling to take it.. Sign your name if you are willing.

Our next QB won't be as good as Cousins. Some of you are complete morons and think anyone will be better than you know, the guy with the 9th best rating of all time.

Hey Cunningham, how is Haskins doing in Washington? Uffda.

Am I saying it isn't time to move on from all of this? No.

But you tards do realize that this team usually has a worse QB than Cousins right? I mean, he the first guy who even played two consecutive seasons without missing a game since Fran.

Don't worry, the next one we get is going to be a sure fire HOFer.

And Cunningham, quit bumping old threads. You have spoke at nauseam how Rick missed out not drafting Dwayne Haskins and I don't care to bump it.

Cousins will do some wonderful things if he gets under the tutelage of Shannanhan in San Fran or McVay in LA.

No QB is succeeding here under Zims offense with this Oline.

The issue is that the situation a quarterback is drafted into plays an enormous role in their overall success. We can never know how Haskins might have been here. Had we drafted him he would have sat on the bench a year, like he should have. Had Kubiak and his son working with him every day l. Watched and learned from Cousins.

Now we flash forward to today. Team is 1-5 and Cousins has been figured out by defenses. You bench him and play Haskins.

Instead we have Mannion. Who, just like Kirk Cousins, couldn’t even beat the Bear’s third string defense.

We lost to the Packers twice last season, Bears twice, and every other team with a decent record. We backed into the playoffs and won in overtime against a weaker armed Drew Brees. He was injured that season and on the decline.

We should have taken a quarterback after Teddy got hurt and not traded our first rounder for Bradford. We sure as hell shouldn’t have overpaid and extended Cousins!

[RubeTube]

Are out in full force. I remind you that this offense is being run absolutely terribly. .

So here is a bet for any froobs wlling to take it.. Sign your name if you are willing.

Our next QB won't be as good as Cousins. Some of you are complete morons and think anyone will be better than you know, the guy with the 9th best rating of all time.

Hey Cunningham, how is Haskins doing in Washington? Uffda.

Am I saying it isn't time to move on from all of this? No.

But you tards do realize that this team usually has a worse QB than Cousins right? I mean, he the first guy who even played two consecutive seasons without missing a game since Fran.

Don't worry, the next one we get is going to be a sure fire HOFer.

And Cunningham, quit bumping old threads. You have spoke at nauseam how Rick missed out not drafting Dwayne Haskins and I don't care to bump it.

Cousins will do some wonderful things if he gets under the tutelage of Shannanhan in San Fran or McVay in LA.

No QB is succeeding here under Zims offense with this Oline.

The issue is that the situation a quarterback is drafted into plays an enormous role in their overall success. We can never know how Haskins might have been here. Had we drafted him he would have sat on the bench a year, like he should have. Had Kubiak and his son working with him every day l. Watched and learned from Cousins.

Now we flash forward to today. Team is 1-5 and Cousins has been figured out by defenses. You bench him and play Haskins.

Instead we have Mannion. Who, just like Kirk Cousins, couldn’t even beat the Bear’s third string defense.

We lost to the Packers twice last season, Bears twice, and every other team with a decent record. We backed into the playoffs and won in overtime against a weaker armed Drew Brees. He was injured that season and on the decline.

We should have taken a quarterback after Teddy got hurt and not traded our first rounder for Bradford. We sure as hell shouldn’t have overpaid and extended Cousins!

Ya, this regime has had so much success grooming QBs. I'm sure Haskins would have lit the world on fire here.

Do you realize what you just said? You contradict yourself all the time.

Been going on at nauseam over Rick and how bad they groom QBs and now say Haskins might have blown up here to support your argument.

Exactly why I rip you. You do this constantly.

[Beef Supreme]

Next guy might not be as good as Cousins, but he’ll be a hell of a lot cheaper.



I’m not even really a hater. But it’s a failed experiment.

[PurpleFloyd]

If he isn’t better than Cousins then we might as well keep Zimmer and Rick.

[JPM]

I might be better than Cousins at 53 and a half years old.

[RubeTube]

Next guy might not be as good as Cousins, but he’ll be a hell of a lot cheaper.



I’m not even really a hater. But it’s a failed experiment.

No doubt.

[cunningham]

Are out in full force. I remind you that this offense is being run absolutely terribly. .

So here is a bet for any froobs wlling to take it.. Sign your name if you are willing.

Our next QB won't be as good as Cousins. Some of you are complete morons and think anyone will be better than you know, the guy with the 9th best rating of all time.

Hey Cunningham, how is Haskins doing in Washington? Uffda.

Am I saying it isn't time to move on from all of this? No.

But you tards do realize that this team usually has a worse QB than Cousins right? I mean, he the first guy who even played two consecutive seasons without missing a game since Fran.

Don't worry, the next one we get is going to be a sure fire HOFer.

And Cunningham, quit bumping old threads. You have spoke at nauseam how Rick missed out not drafting Dwayne Haskins and I don't care to bump it.

Cousins will do some wonderful things if he gets under the tutelage of Shannanhan in San Fran or McVay in LA.

No QB is succeeding here under Zims offense with this Oline.

The issue is that the situation a quarterback is drafted into plays an enormous role in their overall success. We can never know how Haskins might have been here. Had we drafted him he would have sat on the bench a year, like he should have. Had Kubiak and his son working with him every day l. Watched and learned from Cousins.

Now we flash forward to today. Team is 1-5 and Cousins has been figured out by defenses. You bench him and play Haskins.

Instead we have Mannion. Who, just like Kirk Cousins, couldn’t even beat the Bear’s third string defense.

We lost to the Packers twice last season, Bears twice, and every other team with a decent record. We backed into the playoffs and won in overtime against a weaker armed Drew Brees. He was injured that season and on the decline.

We should have taken a quarterback after Teddy got hurt and not traded our first rounder for Bradford. We sure as hell shouldn’t have overpaid and extended Cousins!

Ya, this regime has had so much success grooming QBs. I'm sure Haskins would have lit the world on fire here.

Do you realize what you just said? You contradict yourself all the time.

Been going on at nauseam over Rick and how bad they groom QBs and now say Haskins might have blown up here to support your argument.

Exactly why I rip you. You do this constantly.

I haven’t said this team has trouble grooming a quarterback. They haven’t drafted a quarterback since Bridgewater. That is my main frustration. I see the biggest failure was all-in being sold by this organization. Since Zygi came and Rick joined the TOA it has been that way. You can’t groom a quarterback if you have no one worth grooming.

Would Mahomes be what he is without Andy Reid? Wilson without Carrol? Brady/Billicheat?

The GM has to go because this team is broken. A new vision needs to come in.

[Thor11]

[PackIsBack]

[Night Train]

It's not that I hate Cousins, it's just that I don't think he has IT. In a perfect world, he'd be a perfect QB... but the game is never perfect and sometimes we need someone that can go off script and make something happen. Kirk hasn't proven that consistently. I think we've all seen enough of him to know what we got. Sure he has decent stats at times, but consider his garbage time totals. Too much garbage time stats.

[Phrooster]

Are out in full force. I remind you that this offense is being run absolutely terribly. .

So here is a bet for any froobs wlling to take it.. Sign your name if you are willing.

Our next QB won't be as good as Cousins. Some of you are complete morons and think anyone will be better than you know, the guy with the 9th best rating of all time.

Hey Cunningham, how is Haskins doing in Washington? Uffda.

Am I saying it isn't time to move on from all of this? No.

But you tards do realize that this team usually has a worse QB than Cousins right? I mean, he the first guy who even played two consecutive seasons without missing a game since Fran.

Don't worry, the next one we get is going to be a sure fire HOFer.

And Cunningham, quit bumping old threads. You have spoke at nauseam how Rick missed out not drafting Dwayne Haskins and I don't care to bump it.

Cousins will do some wonderful things if he gets under the tutelage of Shannanhan in San Fran or McVay in LA.

No QB is succeeding here under Zims offense with this Oline.

With no Cap space and a GM that can't put a o line together your really going out on a limb

[shoteh]

Decent QB and Decent Coaching = Decent win average.

Put Rogers/Wilson on this team and we are guaranteed 3 more wins.

Put Belichick/Reid on this team and we are guaranteed 3 more wins.

VIKINGS ARE DECENT !!! We will need greatness in QB or in Coaching.

[Da Gas Man]

Next guy might not be as good as Cousins, but he’ll be a hell of a lot cheaper.



I’m not even really a hater. But it’s a failed experiment.

So you are a hater.

If you don’t constantly make excuses for Cousins, you must be a hater. It can’t be that you are evaluating the performance on the field. You are a hater.

[Beef Supreme]

Next guy might not be as good as Cousins, but he’ll be a hell of a lot cheaper.



I’m not even really a hater. But it’s a failed experiment.

So you are a hater.

If you don’t constantly make excuses for Cousins, you must be a hater. It can’t be that you are evaluating the performance on the field. You are a hater.

I don’t have a lot of cred on Cousins, to be honest.


For the record, I was against acquiring him and wanted to keep Case and Teddy around and if I couldn’t win with them, draft a guy.

But I convinced myself he’d be okay and was optimistic for 2018. Three games in, I wanted him gone. I started a countdown thred for how many games we had left of him under contract.

Then he won me back with his brilliant October and November last year. I thought he answered the bell with his performance in the playoff game in New Orleans. I was on the train.

Now I want to personally drown him in a vat of boiling acid.



What I learned from this whole experience is to empathize with fans of the Washington franchise for their time with him.

[Tommy_Hawk]

Are out in full force. I remind you that this offense is being run absolutely terribly. .

So here is a bet for any froobs wlling to take it.. Sign your name if you are willing.

Our next QB won't be as good as Cousins. Some of you are complete morons and think anyone will be better than you know, the guy with the 9th best rating of all time.

Hey Cunningham, how is Haskins doing in Washington? Uffda.

Am I saying it isn't time to move on from all of this? No.

But you tards do realize that this team usually has a worse QB than Cousins right? I mean, he the first guy who even played two consecutive seasons without missing a game since Fran.

Don't worry, the next one we get is going to be a sure fire HOFer.

And Cunningham, quit bumping old threads. You have spoke at nauseam how Rick missed out not drafting Dwayne Haskins and I don't care to bump it.

Cousins will do some wonderful things if he gets under the tutelage of Shannanhan in San Fran or McVay in LA.

No QB is succeeding here under Zims offense with this Oline.

No offense Pump, but we could make this exact thread about you and Mike Zimmer.

[Hector]

Next guy might not be as good as Cousins, but he’ll be a hell of a lot cheaper.



I’m not even really a hater. But it’s a failed experiment.

So you are a hater.

If you don’t constantly make excuses for Cousins, you must be a hater. It can’t be that you are evaluating the performance on the field. You are a hater.

I don’t have a lot of cred on Cousins, to be honest.


For the record, I was against acquiring him and wanted to keep Case and Teddy around and if I couldn’t win with them, draft a guy.

But I convinced myself he’d be okay and was optimistic for 2018. Three games in, I wanted him gone. I started a countdown thred for how many games we had left of him under contract.

Then he won me back with his brilliant October and November last year. I thought he answered the bell with his performance in the playoff game in New Orleans. I was on the train.

Now I want to personally drown him in a vat of boiling acid.



What I learned from this whole experience is to empathize with fans of the Washington franchise for their time with him.

Didn't trust or want him from the start (other than a stopgap) but I think you just summarized the Viking fan roller coaster and Kirk just seemed like he was going to be a continuation (expensive and frustrating continuation) of the Viking failure.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

He’s a mediocre NFL QB. He’s not terrible. He’s not particularly good if he’s improvising or under pressure. This thread was not needed whatsoever. But hey Sergeant Rubetube got to have one of his contrarian “I know stuff” takes so I’m here for it. But the idea that Cousins would flourish under Shanahan in the same designed offense with less ideal weapons is particularly hilarious.

[JPM]

I'm more of a Zimmer and Fleck hater. Cousins is inconsequential.

[Chromazz]

Are out in full force. I remind you that this offense is being run absolutely terribly. .

So here is a bet for any froobs wlling to take it.. Sign your name if you are willing.

Our next QB won't be as good as Cousins. Some of you are complete morons and think anyone will be better than you know, the guy with the 9th best rating of all time.

Hey Cunningham, how is Haskins doing in Washington? Uffda.

Am I saying it isn't time to move on from all of this? No.

But you tards do realize that this team usually has a worse QB than Cousins right? I mean, he the first guy who even played two consecutive seasons without missing a game since Fran.

Don't worry, the next one we get is going to be a sure fire HOFer.

And Cunningham, quit bumping old threads. You have spoke at nauseam how Rick missed out not drafting Dwayne Haskins and I don't care to bump it.

Cousins will do some wonderful things if he gets under the tutelage of Shannanhan in San Fran or McVay in LA.

No QB is succeeding here under Zims offense with this Oline.

Like the next QB we give a contract to? I would bet that.

Rookie QB depends on who they draft. I would bet that given the right odds.

Cousins going to another team and being good? Lmfaoo. I will bet that.

RC3 escrow.

[Chromazz]

You were completely wrong about cousins. He fucking sucks and always has.

Having Haskins on the roster over cousins is so much higher EV. I’m not sure what your point is there? He’s better than a bust?

[Bob Wiley]

Next guy might not be as good as Cousins, but he’ll be a hell of a lot cheaper.



I’m not even really a hater. But it’s a failed experiment.

This is where I’m at too. I’m of the opinion that it doesn’t matter who the qb is with this o line. That needs to be fixed to give any quarterback a legit chance.

[jffl_commish]

Cousins had his best game of the season this past Sunday. Give him another giant extension!

[Oriole81]

Not that I'm a Cousins fan by any means, but...

*The team should have known he needed a much better OL for him to be at his best and they actively did not give that to him. They had additional opportunities early in the draft or via trades/free agency to get immediate contributors and they did not.
*We signed Cousins to be the missing piece to couple with the top defense in the league, and that defense took a giant step back. Barr got complacent (and cost us Sheldon), Rhodes went off a cliff, Waynes never hit his peak, they had two huge busts in Jaleel and Holmes that set back the DL.
*They had a terrible situation with their specialists for the longest time.

The team that Cousins got was not the team that he was sold on.

[hategreenticemase]

Not that I'm a Cousins fan by any means, but...

*The team should have known he needed a much better OL for him to be at his best and they actively did not give that to him. They had additional opportunities early in the draft or via trades/free agency to get immediate contributors and they did not.
*We signed Cousins to be the missing piece to couple with the top defense in the league, and that defense took a giant step back. Barr got complacent (and cost us Sheldon), Rhodes went off a cliff, Waynes never hit his peak, they had two huge busts in Jaleel and Holmes that set back the DL.
*They had a terrible situation with their specialists for the longest time.

The team that Cousins got was not the team that he was sold on.

It's absurd to say the defense took "a giant step back". Come on. This season, indeed, it took a giant step back. From 2017 to 19 going from top D in league to top 5 or 6 ain't a giant step back. Linval decline and Rhodes decline and losing Sheldon to me is 95% of that decline. Last years defense was not as good as most Zimmer defenses but it was good enough to win especially had the offense been top 5 like it should have.

When I say should have, I mean, as you perfectly stated in your first bullet - had this team ensured it had a quality ol for the most ol dependant good qb in fn history. Your first point dwarfs everything else - its a completely different team with quality guards last year. The DL still would have been a problem, but a running team getting 22-25 first downs a game and scoring 25 per game covers up a lot for a D.

In the history of this franchise, the decision to sign him and not understanding how paramount it was to have a quality OL in front of him may be the worst fn mistake we ever made. And my dumbass and a few other average Joe rubes saw it and said it then. Its preposterous. How anyone defense Spielman is absolutely mind boggling to me.

I'm ready to move on from Cousins, but part of me constantly wonders what he looks like if we just had a Joe fn Berger playing both G spots.

[Oriole81]

Not that I'm a Cousins fan by any means, but...

*The team should have known he needed a much better OL for him to be at his best and they actively did not give that to him. They had additional opportunities early in the draft or via trades/free agency to get immediate contributors and they did not.
*We signed Cousins to be the missing piece to couple with the top defense in the league, and that defense took a giant step back. Barr got complacent (and cost us Sheldon), Rhodes went off a cliff, Waynes never hit his peak, they had two huge busts in Jaleel and Holmes that set back the DL.
*They had a terrible situation with their specialists for the longest time.

The team that Cousins got was not the team that he was sold on.

It's absurd to say the defense took "a giant step back". Come on. This season, indeed, it took a giant step back. From 2017 to 19 going from top D in league to top 5 or 6 ain't a giant step back. Linval decline and Rhodes decline and losing Sheldon to me is 95% of that decline. Last years defense was not as good as most Zimmer defenses but it was good enough to win especially had the offense been top 5 like it should have.

When I say should have, I mean, as perfectly stated in first bullet- had this team ensured it had a quality ol for the most ol dependant good qb in fn history. Your first point dwarfs everything else - its a completely different team with quality guards last year. The DL still would have been a problem, bit a running team getting 22-25 first downs a game and scoring 25 per game covers up a lot for a D.

In the history of this franchise, the decision to sign him and not understanding how paramount it was to have a quality OL in front of him may be the worst fn mistake we ever made. And my dumbass and a few other average Joe rubes saw it and said it then. Its preposterous. How anyone defense Spielman is absolutely mind boggling to me.

I'm ready to move on from Cousins, but part of me constantly wonders what he looks like if we just had a Joe fn Berger playing both G spots.

I don't think the plan was ever to have Kirk win us a SB, but instead to have him be an upgrade to Keenum that can pair with our top defense, which is a recipe that has been shown to win.
Denver won in 2015 with a top defense that was #1 in points and yards allowed. That is what we were at in 2017, #1 in points and yards allowed. And we had a bevy of young guys still on cheap deals that could give us a few years window to put it over the top.

But the defense falling to 5 like you say is actually a catastrophic decline IMO, because its very hard for a non elite QB to make up that difference, and just because Cousins is getting paid like one, we all know (and I'm sure the team knows) that he isn't that.

Your points about Linval, Rhodes and Sheldon actually help make my point, because that all should have been budgeted for. Even if Rhodes declined, we needed to get way more out of Waynes and Mack considering where they were drafted and Zim's supposed reputation. Jaleel and Jalyn were also drafted high to take pressure off Linval and provide a 3T pass rush, and they were drafted in the same spots that we've had a long track record of success with guys like BRob, Everson and Danielle. The fact that they busted so badly contributed to why we fell to 5th or so, which IMO as I stated means we couldn't win a SB.

So I think its a difference of opinion regarding how I viewed the role of the defense going into the Cousins deal vs how you may have, that I thought we still needed the defense to be 2017 quality for a few years, and that didn't happen.
I know you and I are on the same page regarding the OL, which was another huge failure.

[Oriole81]

Not that I'm a Cousins fan by any means, but...

*The team should have known he needed a much better OL for him to be at his best and they actively did not give that to him. They had additional opportunities early in the draft or via trades/free agency to get immediate contributors and they did not.
*We signed Cousins to be the missing piece to couple with the top defense in the league, and that defense took a giant step back. Barr got complacent (and cost us Sheldon), Rhodes went off a cliff, Waynes never hit his peak, they had two huge busts in Jaleel and Holmes that set back the DL.
*They had a terrible situation with their specialists for the longest time.

The team that Cousins got was not the team that he was sold on.

It's absurd to say the defense took "a giant step back". Come on. This season, indeed, it took a giant step back. From 2017 to 19 going from top D in league to top 5 or 6 ain't a giant step back. Linval decline and Rhodes decline and losing Sheldon to me is 95% of that decline. Last years defense was not as good as most Zimmer defenses but it was good enough to win especially had the offense been top 5 like it should have.

When I say should have, I mean, as perfectly stated in first bullet- had this team ensured it had a quality ol for the most ol dependant good qb in fn history. Your first point dwarfs everything else - its a completely different team with quality guards last year. The DL still would have been a problem, bit a running team getting 22-25 first downs a game and scoring 25 per game covers up a lot for a D.

In the history of this franchise, the decision to sign him and not understanding how paramount it was to have a quality OL in front of him may be the worst fn mistake we ever made. And my dumbass and a few other average Joe rubes saw it and said it then. Its preposterous. How anyone defense Spielman is absolutely mind boggling to me.

I'm ready to move on from Cousins, but part of me constantly wonders what he looks like if we just had a Joe fn Berger playing both G spots.

I don't think the plan was ever to have Kirk win us a SB, but instead to have him be an upgrade to Keenum that can pair with our top defense, which is a recipe that has been shown to win.
Denver won in 2015 with a top defense that was #1 in points and yards allowed. That is what we were at in 2017, #1 in points and yards allowed. And we had a bevy of young guys still on cheap deals that could give us a few years window to put it over the top.

But the defense falling to 5 like you say is actually a catastrophic decline IMO, because its very hard for a non elite QB to make up that difference, and just because Cousins is getting paid like one, we all know (and I'm sure the team knows) that he isn't that.

Your points about Linval, Rhodes and Sheldon actually help make my point, because that all should have been budgeted for. Even if Rhodes declined, we needed to get way more out of Waynes and Mack considering where they were drafted and Zim's supposed reputation. Jaleel and Jalyn were also drafted high to take pressure off Linval and provide a 3T pass rush, and they were drafted in the same spots that we've had a long track record of success with guys like BRob, Everson and Danielle. The fact that they busted so badly contributed to why we fell to 5th or so, which IMO as I stated means we couldn't win a SB.

So I think its a difference of opinion regarding how I viewed the role of the defense going into the Cousins deal vs how you may have, that I thought we still needed the defense to be 2017 quality for a few years, and that didn't happen.
I know you and I are on the same page regarding the OL, which was another huge failure.

So I guess this is my way of saying that I was fine with the Cousins signing because prior to it, we had the recipe to win a SB.
But the utter lack of devotion to the OL and the fact that Zim let the defense fall out of that necessary elite level, means they take IMO more of the blame than Cousins for this window closing.

They never should have re-signed him though.

[hategreenticemase]

It's absurd to say the defense took "a giant step back". Come on. This season, indeed, it took a giant step back. From 2017 to 19 going from top D in league to top 5 or 6 ain't a giant step back. Linval decline and Rhodes decline and losing Sheldon to me is 95% of that decline. Last years defense was not as good as most Zimmer defenses but it was good enough to win especially had the offense been top 5 like it should have.

When I say should have, I mean, as perfectly stated in first bullet- had this team ensured it had a quality ol for the most ol dependant good qb in fn history. Your first point dwarfs everything else - its a completely different team with quality guards last year. The DL still would have been a problem, bit a running team getting 22-25 first downs a game and scoring 25 per game covers up a lot for a D.

In the history of this franchise, the decision to sign him and not understanding how paramount it was to have a quality OL in front of him may be the worst fn mistake we ever made. And my dumbass and a few other average Joe rubes saw it and said it then. Its preposterous. How anyone defense Spielman is absolutely mind boggling to me.

I'm ready to move on from Cousins, but part of me constantly wonders what he looks like if we just had a Joe fn Berger playing both G spots.

I don't think the plan was ever to have Kirk win us a SB, but instead to have him be an upgrade to Keenum that can pair with our top defense, which is a recipe that has been shown to win.
Denver won in 2015 with a top defense that was #1 in points and yards allowed. That is what we were at in 2017, #1 in points and yards allowed. And we had a bevy of young guys still on cheap deals that could give us a few years window to put it over the top.

But the defense falling to 5 like you say is actually a catastrophic decline IMO, because its very hard for a non elite QB to make up that difference, and just because Cousins is getting paid like one, we all know (and I'm sure the team knows) that he isn't that.

Your points about Linval, Rhodes and Sheldon actually help make my point, because that all should have been budgeted for. Even if Rhodes declined, we needed to get way more out of Waynes and Mack considering where they were drafted and Zim's supposed reputation. Jaleel and Jalyn were also drafted high to take pressure off Linval and provide a 3T pass rush, and they were drafted in the same spots that we've had a long track record of success with guys like BRob, Everson and Danielle. The fact that they busted so badly contributed to why we fell to 5th or so, which IMO as I stated means we couldn't win a SB.

So I think its a difference of opinion regarding how I viewed the role of the defense going into the Cousins deal vs how you may have, that I thought we still needed the defense to be 2017 quality for a few years, and that didn't happen.
I know you and I are on the same page regarding the OL, which was another huge failure.

So I guess this is my way of saying that I was fine with the Cousins signing because prior to it, we had the recipe to win a SB.
But the utter lack of devotion to the OL and the fact that Zim let the defense fall out of that necessary elite level, means they take IMO more of the blame than Cousins for this window closing.

They never should have re-signed him though.

I agree with all this but the issue i have is you underestimate how good this offense could / would be with two quality guards. Two quality guards would have absolutely helped this defense. It's a 38min top offense that gets 20 plus first downs and 24 plus points in my opinion. That DRAMATICALLY impacts the D.

We want to run the ball. We want to utilize kdc absolute strength, down field accuracy in play action. This offense would be special if we could can do both things. Non terrible guard play makes that possible if not likely.

[Oriole81]

I don't think the plan was ever to have Kirk win us a SB, but instead to have him be an upgrade to Keenum that can pair with our top defense, which is a recipe that has been shown to win.
Denver won in 2015 with a top defense that was #1 in points and yards allowed. That is what we were at in 2017, #1 in points and yards allowed. And we had a bevy of young guys still on cheap deals that could give us a few years window to put it over the top.

But the defense falling to 5 like you say is actually a catastrophic decline IMO, because its very hard for a non elite QB to make up that difference, and just because Cousins is getting paid like one, we all know (and I'm sure the team knows) that he isn't that.

Your points about Linval, Rhodes and Sheldon actually help make my point, because that all should have been budgeted for. Even if Rhodes declined, we needed to get way more out of Waynes and Mack considering where they were drafted and Zim's supposed reputation. Jaleel and Jalyn were also drafted high to take pressure off Linval and provide a 3T pass rush, and they were drafted in the same spots that we've had a long track record of success with guys like BRob, Everson and Danielle. The fact that they busted so badly contributed to why we fell to 5th or so, which IMO as I stated means we couldn't win a SB.

So I think its a difference of opinion regarding how I viewed the role of the defense going into the Cousins deal vs how you may have, that I thought we still needed the defense to be 2017 quality for a few years, and that didn't happen.
I know you and I are on the same page regarding the OL, which was another huge failure.

So I guess this is my way of saying that I was fine with the Cousins signing because prior to it, we had the recipe to win a SB.
But the utter lack of devotion to the OL and the fact that Zim let the defense fall out of that necessary elite level, means they take IMO more of the blame than Cousins for this window closing.

They never should have re-signed him though.

I agree with all this but the issue i have is you underestimate how good this offense could / would be with two quality guards. Two quality guards would have absolutely helped this defense. It's a 38min top offense that gets 20 plus first downs and 24 plus points in my opinion. That DRAMATICALLY impacts the D.

We want to run the ball. We want to utilize kdc absolute strength, down field accuracy in play action. This offense would be special if we could can do both things. Non terrible guard play makes that possible if not likely.

I 100% agree on that, and only didn't emphasize that cuz I know you and I are already on the same page about the lack of devotion to the OL.
They had opportunities to either sign/trade for plug and play veterans as well as them passing up specific OL players early in the drafts that could have started from Day 1, and they actively chose not to.

[Oriole81]

So I guess this is my way of saying that I was fine with the Cousins signing because prior to it, we had the recipe to win a SB.
But the utter lack of devotion to the OL and the fact that Zim let the defense fall out of that necessary elite level, means they take IMO more of the blame than Cousins for this window closing.

They never should have re-signed him though.

I agree with all this but the issue i have is you underestimate how good this offense could / would be with two quality guards. Two quality guards would have absolutely helped this defense. It's a 38min top offense that gets 20 plus first downs and 24 plus points in my opinion. That DRAMATICALLY impacts the D.

We want to run the ball. We want to utilize kdc absolute strength, down field accuracy in play action. This offense would be special if we could can do both things. Non terrible guard play makes that possible if not likely.

I 100% agree on that, and only didn't emphasize that cuz I know you and I are already on the same page about the lack of devotion to the OL.
They had opportunities to either sign/trade for plug and play veterans as well as them passing up specific OL players early in the drafts that could have started from Day 1, and they actively chose not to.

and I'll add, that the draft day moves they passed up on, would have had zero impact on keeping the defense at the top. It would have cost them Mike Hughes (who was still a luxury pick) in 2018, Irv Smith or Alexander Mattison last year, and some combo of the 4th-7ths rd picks this year.

so the opportunity was there to keep the defense at #1 while still addressing the OL, and they just flat out didn't.
As much as I don't like Cousins, it really baffles me as to what they reasonably expected him to do.