Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

[hategreenticemase]

He's a Mike LB about to count $13 million, $13.5 million and $11.4 million against the cap in his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but on a rebuilding team, it's absolutely fair to want to move on from that, especially at MLB... the most overrated position on the defense by fans.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong.

I like that you are younger and bring some analytics and fresh thinking on things like cap and team construction, but in my opinion you get so tunnel visioned on some things with cap or "where cap can be allocated". An example (but not a great one due to there is legit injury concerns and therefore I am torn myself on the subject of Cook) is you wouldnt ever consider paying a rb big money. While I agree in general with the overall strategy, I also would then reconsider it in specific circumstances with an offense changer like Cook. In your leadership, we would have never had AP beyond rookie contract.

Bobby Wagner makes 18M. Mosely 17M. Jack, Jones, Thompson and Cunningham all 13-14M. Sorry, its but its absurd to think Kendricks is overpaid. I do agree with you that MLB aint like the 80s and 90s now. Its not as important. The difference is, Kendricks is a player. He makes plays, he is a big part of the D. And he makes reasonable, almost, inexpensive, salary. Again, I think its absurd to intimate he is overpaid.

Here is my point. I do NOT have to have a big time or best S in the league to have a very good D. Simply do not. There is no question a MAJOR part of our D prowess the last many years is we have one of the best S in the league in Smith. He is a player, a playmaker, a blue chipper. By your way of thinking, I may not have retained him because "I dont have to have the top S in league". My thinking is, I need blue chippers/play makers and the guy is a great player, I have no issue paying him.

Its not a chess board. Different players have differing levels of impact regardless of position. I think its great to have overall big picture planning on team construction managing the cap, I really do. But you also have to be flexible and understand its about being at minimum good on both lines, good at qb and then having enough playmakers at key spots etc.

I’m wrong about what?

I never said, “Absolutely, Kendricks should be off this team.”

The numbers I posted are factual. The fact that interior LBs are overrated in their importance, while not an actual provable fact, is an opinion that is shared by many across the league, including yourself by the sounds of it.

Again, I think it’s fair to consider moving Kendricks for the right price considering where this team is and how much he makes at the position he plays.

I’m not calling for him to be traded or cut immediately. Just saying he could be included in that list of guys whom the Vikes are shopping.

You’re so quick to battle people on here, it’s like you exaggerate what people are actually saying.

Disagreeing is battling?

Many across the league? The only one providing facts is me when I listed 5 MLB making more or far more. So, apparently it's not as across the league as you think.

If you are saying try to trade him, well that's a different story depending on what u can get. But I thought the discussion was on cutting his salary, maybe I misread it. Either way, we can agree to disagree - i think he is neither overpaid or less important due to position he plays.

[Oriole81]

Yes. I would not pay that much for a LB.

Stop acting like he is one of the top paid defensive players in the league. He is a very good player and is making reasonable salary commensurate for being a good player.

He's a Mike LB about to count $13 million, $13.5 million and $11.4 million against the cap in his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but on a rebuilding team, it's absolutely fair to want to move on from that, especially at MLB... the most overrated position on the defense by fans.

Ash, are you keeping Barr in this suggestion?

[Ash Ketchum]

Stop acting like he is one of the top paid defensive players in the league. He is a very good player and is making reasonable salary commensurate for being a good player.

He's a Mike LB about to count $13 million, $13.5 million and $11.4 million against the cap in his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but on a rebuilding team, it's absolutely fair to want to move on from that, especially at MLB... the most overrated position on the defense by fans.

Ash, are you keeping Barr in this suggestion?

Yes. Absolutely.

I still think Barr does so much more than the average fan is able or willing to appreciate, but same reasoning due to his contract: if you get a good offer for him, you have to consider it because the Vikings aren’t going to win the Super Bowl this year — and likely not next year. If the chance is there to collect assets that will help in 2022, you have to consider it.

[hategreenticemase]

He's a Mike LB about to count $13 million, $13.5 million and $11.4 million against the cap in his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but on a rebuilding team, it's absolutely fair to want to move on from that, especially at MLB... the most overrated position on the defense by fans.

Ash, are you keeping Barr in this suggestion?

Yes. Absolutely.

I still think Barr does so much more than the average fan is able or willing to appreciate, but same reasoning due to his contract: if you get a good offer for him, you have to consider it because the Vikings aren’t going to win the Super Bowl this year — and likely not next year. If the chance is there to collect assets that will help in 2022, you have to consider it.

Now I will "battle" you. A player making 25% more you are good with keeping, in spite of their being no objective data saying he is a better player much less 25% better.

[JPM]

Barr has zero heart. Only stat/non-stat you need to know.

[JPM]

Kendricks is fantastic and plays with heart.

[Oriole81]

He's a Mike LB about to count $13 million, $13.5 million and $11.4 million against the cap in his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but on a rebuilding team, it's absolutely fair to want to move on from that, especially at MLB... the most overrated position on the defense by fans.

Ash, are you keeping Barr in this suggestion?

Yes. Absolutely.

I still think Barr does so much more than the average fan is able or willing to appreciate, but same reasoning due to his contract: if you get a good offer for him, you have to consider it because the Vikings aren’t going to win the Super Bowl this year — and likely not next year. If the chance is there to collect assets that will help in 2022, you have to consider it.

Ok, see I would rather cut Barr and keep Kendricks.

[JPM]

"average fan"

[Ash Ketchum]

Ash, are you keeping Barr in this suggestion?

Yes. Absolutely.

I still think Barr does so much more than the average fan is able or willing to appreciate, but same reasoning due to his contract: if you get a good offer for him, you have to consider it because the Vikings aren’t going to win the Super Bowl this year — and likely not next year. If the chance is there to collect assets that will help in 2022, you have to consider it.

Ok, see I would rather cut Barr and keep Kendricks.

That’s probably what they will do.

I’m not for getting rid of Kendricks. I’m just saying that they should be open to moving Kendricks if the opportunity was there to get something for him. I never suggested Kendricks as a cap saving measure at all.

Barr, I would consider getting rid of as a cost cutting measure because of Wilson’s play.

[Obi-Wan]

There is something to be said for getting rid of a player early as opposed to too late.

[hategreenticemase]

Yes. Absolutely.

I still think Barr does so much more than the average fan is able or willing to appreciate, but same reasoning due to his contract: if you get a good offer for him, you have to consider it because the Vikings aren’t going to win the Super Bowl this year — and likely not next year. If the chance is there to collect assets that will help in 2022, you have to consider it.

Ok, see I would rather cut Barr and keep Kendricks.

That’s probably what they will do.

I’m not for getting rid of Kendricks. I’m just saying that they should be open to moving Kendricks if the opportunity was there to get something for him. I never suggested Kendricks as a cap saving measure at all.

Barr, I would consider getting rid of as a cost cutting measure because of Wilson’s play.

Wait, what? Did you mistype that?

What will Wilson cost?

[Oriole81]

Yes. Absolutely.

I still think Barr does so much more than the average fan is able or willing to appreciate, but same reasoning due to his contract: if you get a good offer for him, you have to consider it because the Vikings aren’t going to win the Super Bowl this year — and likely not next year. If the chance is there to collect assets that will help in 2022, you have to consider it.

Ok, see I would rather cut Barr and keep Kendricks.

That’s probably what they will do.

I’m not for getting rid of Kendricks. I’m just saying that they should be open to moving Kendricks if the opportunity was there to get something for him. I never suggested Kendricks as a cap saving measure at all.

Barr, I would consider getting rid of as a cost cutting measure because of Wilson’s play.

Yeah, they certainly can't afford both of them next year.
So I was just trying to figure out your plan of why we would actively be getting rid of Kendricks and then it just hit me, that you like Barr better and you would be keeping Barr in lieu of Kendricks.

[Ash Ketchum]

Ok, see I would rather cut Barr and keep Kendricks.

That’s probably what they will do.

I’m not for getting rid of Kendricks. I’m just saying that they should be open to moving Kendricks if the opportunity was there to get something for him. I never suggested Kendricks as a cap saving measure at all.

Barr, I would consider getting rid of as a cost cutting measure because of Wilson’s play.

Yeah, they certainly can't afford both of them next year.
So I was just trying to figure out your plan of why we would actively be getting rid of Kendricks and then it just hit me, that you like Barr better and you would be keeping Barr in lieu of Kendricks.

I wouldn't get rid of Kendricks unless it was a trade.

Barr, I could see cutting him to save cap space.

[Ash Ketchum]

Ok, see I would rather cut Barr and keep Kendricks.

That’s probably what they will do.

I’m not for getting rid of Kendricks. I’m just saying that they should be open to moving Kendricks if the opportunity was there to get something for him. I never suggested Kendricks as a cap saving measure at all.

Barr, I would consider getting rid of as a cost cutting measure because of Wilson’s play.

Wait, what? Did you mistype that?

What will Wilson cost?

What?

Wilson makes like $3 million. He's a FA after this season, but he'll be way cheaper than Barr still.

I still think Barr is very very good, but he's the next logical cap casualty for where this team is at.

2022 is the window now. Anyone who makes too much or is already in their prime two years prior to the window should be considered for departure.

[hategreenticemase]

That’s probably what they will do.

I’m not for getting rid of Kendricks. I’m just saying that they should be open to moving Kendricks if the opportunity was there to get something for him. I never suggested Kendricks as a cap saving measure at all.

Barr, I would consider getting rid of as a cost cutting measure because of Wilson’s play.

Wait, what? Did you mistype that?

What will Wilson cost?

What?

Wilson makes like $3 million. He's a FA after this season, but he'll be way cheaper than Barr still.

I still think Barr is very very good, but he's the next logical cap casualty for where this team is at.

2022 is the window now. Anyone who makes too much or is already in their prime two years prior to the window should be considered for departure.

I am not one of the rubes who think Barr sucks, or who doesnt see some of the little things he does. That said, you overrate him, period. Kendricks provides more value at his price than Barr does at his, and frankly, its not close. Anyway, I misunderstood you earlier, you werent saying cut Kendricks, so my mistake.

Isnt Barr a dilemman, however? Isnt he a pretty bad dead money issue if we move on from him?

[Oriole81]

Wait, what? Did you mistype that?

What will Wilson cost?

What?

Wilson makes like $3 million. He's a FA after this season, but he'll be way cheaper than Barr still.

I still think Barr is very very good, but he's the next logical cap casualty for where this team is at.

2022 is the window now. Anyone who makes too much or is already in their prime two years prior to the window should be considered for departure.

I am not one of the rubes who think Barr sucks, or who doesnt see some of the little things he does. That said, you overrate him, period. Kendricks provides more value at his price than Barr does at his, and frankly, its not close. Anyway, I misunderstood you earlier, you werent saying cut Kendricks, so my mistake.

Isnt Barr a dilemman, however? Isnt he a pretty bad dead money issue if we move on from him?

$7.8M in dead money, which may seem technically like a high number, but if he we keep him his cap number is $15M.
So we're still saving $8M in true cap room.

[hategreenticemase]

What?

Wilson makes like $3 million. He's a FA after this season, but he'll be way cheaper than Barr still.

I still think Barr is very very good, but he's the next logical cap casualty for where this team is at.

2022 is the window now. Anyone who makes too much or is already in their prime two years prior to the window should be considered for departure.

I am not one of the rubes who think Barr sucks, or who doesnt see some of the little things he does. That said, you overrate him, period. Kendricks provides more value at his price than Barr does at his, and frankly, its not close. Anyway, I misunderstood you earlier, you werent saying cut Kendricks, so my mistake.

Isnt Barr a dilemman, however? Isnt he a pretty bad dead money issue if we move on from him?

$7.8M in dead money, which may seem technically like a high number, but if he we keep him his cap number is $15M.
So we're still saving $8M in true cap room.

Ick. But it helps substantially going forward. I wonder how things play out if he had just signed with Jets.

[Oriole81]

I am not one of the rubes who think Barr sucks, or who doesnt see some of the little things he does. That said, you overrate him, period. Kendricks provides more value at his price than Barr does at his, and frankly, its not close. Anyway, I misunderstood you earlier, you werent saying cut Kendricks, so my mistake.

Isnt Barr a dilemman, however? Isnt he a pretty bad dead money issue if we move on from him?

$7.8M in dead money, which may seem technically like a high number, but if he we keep him his cap number is $15M.
So we're still saving $8M in true cap room.

Ick. But it helps substantially going forward. I wonder how things play out if he had just signed with Jets.

My "what could have been" was back in the 2018 draft and having us move up in RD3 to get Lorenzo Carter from Georgia.
He looked like a mini Barr going into the draft, and perhaps with a year of seasoning behind Zim and Patterson he could have been ready to step in in 2019 and allowed us to let Barr walk.
We then have the cap space to re-sign Sheldon, and we still get a 3rd rd comp pick for Barr.

Carter ended up going to the Giants and hasn't developed, but the Giants are a terrible organization so who knows how things would have been different had we gotten Carter. What I do know is that we got f*in Jalyn Holmes instead with that pick, who has done jack sh!t.

[Stu Pedaso]

[BuDG123]

That’s not good. Best player on the team.

[D_H]

That’s not good. Best player on the team.

Meh

He’s good — but I’d put Hunter, Cook, Hendricks, Jefferson, and Adam Theilan above him IMO.

[hategreenticemase]

$7.8M in dead money, which may seem technically like a high number, but if he we keep him his cap number is $15M.
So we're still saving $8M in true cap room.

Ick. But it helps substantially going forward. I wonder how things play out if he had just signed with Jets.

My "what could have been" was back in the 2018 draft and having us move up in RD3 to get Lorenzo Carter from Georgia.
He looked like a mini Barr going into the draft, and perhaps with a year of seasoning behind Zim and Patterson he could have been ready to step in in 2019 and allowed us to let Barr walk.
We then have the cap space to re-sign Sheldon, and we still get a 3rd rd comp pick for Barr.

Carter ended up going to the Giants and hasn't developed, but the Giants are a terrible organization so who knows how things would have been different had we gotten Carter. What I do know is that we got f*in Jalyn Holmes instead with that pick, who has done jack sh!t.

There are too fn many "what could have been". Corduroy Jeans, Hughes, Treadfuck, insert about 4 OL taken in 3rd-5th rounds. Hell, what about Irv Smith and trading up for Mattison?

[Oriole81]

Ick. But it helps substantially going forward. I wonder how things play out if he had just signed with Jets.

My "what could have been" was back in the 2018 draft and having us move up in RD3 to get Lorenzo Carter from Georgia.
He looked like a mini Barr going into the draft, and perhaps with a year of seasoning behind Zim and Patterson he could have been ready to step in in 2019 and allowed us to let Barr walk.
We then have the cap space to re-sign Sheldon, and we still get a 3rd rd comp pick for Barr.

Carter ended up going to the Giants and hasn't developed, but the Giants are a terrible organization so who knows how things would have been different had we gotten Carter. What I do know is that we got f*in Jalyn Holmes instead with that pick, who has done jack sh!t.

There are too fn many "what could have been". Corduroy Jeans, Hughes, Treadfuck, insert about 4 OL taken in 3rd-5th rounds. Hell, what about Irv Smith and trading up for Mattison?

you have a problem with Corduroy Jeans?

[hategreenticemase]

My "what could have been" was back in the 2018 draft and having us move up in RD3 to get Lorenzo Carter from Georgia.
He looked like a mini Barr going into the draft, and perhaps with a year of seasoning behind Zim and Patterson he could have been ready to step in in 2019 and allowed us to let Barr walk.
We then have the cap space to re-sign Sheldon, and we still get a 3rd rd comp pick for Barr.

Carter ended up going to the Giants and hasn't developed, but the Giants are a terrible organization so who knows how things would have been different had we gotten Carter. What I do know is that we got f*in Jalyn Holmes instead with that pick, who has done jack sh!t.

There are too fn many "what could have been". Corduroy Jeans, Hughes, Treadfuck, insert about 4 OL taken in 3rd-5th rounds. Hell, what about Irv Smith and trading up for Mattison?

you have a problem with Corduroy Jeans?

In general, I do not, however, I do when its a limited receiver who they paid a hefty price for, yes.