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Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

A place to discuss the MN Vikings
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Ash Ketchum
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Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Ash Ketchum »

No more guaranteed money means they could cut him this offseason with no penalty, saving $10 million in cap space.

Will be sad if this is his last year.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by hategreenticemase »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:35 pm No more guaranteed money means they could cut him this offseason with no penalty, saving $10 million in cap space.

Will be sad if this is his last year.
I hope not. Smart player is want around mentoring new defense with. If I thought he was about done, maybe - but I think his smarts can make him effective another 3 or maybe 4 years.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by minnemike »

then trade him!!!
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Tmoney
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Tmoney »

Hes the type that could go straight from playing to coaching.

Like a mike Vrabel type
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cunningham
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by cunningham »

One of my favorite players. Hopefully he retires here. We will need a few guys in the rebuild.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by HeHateMe »

I would keep him and Thielen here. It would take a shit ton to trade either of those guys.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by hategreenticemase »

:no:
HeHateMe wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:19 pm I would keep him and Thielen here. It would take a shit ton to trade either of those guys.
As for the Thielen piece of your point, I have changed my tune on this. You guys have sold me on keeping Thielen. Young qb needs weapons and we we got two elite and affordable receivers. My initial reaction was if its two years before we compete again, he is more valuable trading him. But, short of a number 1, I am keeping him.

Definitely want Smith either way. I feel he for sure has 3-5 more good years.
Last edited by hategreenticemase on Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Beef Supreme »

Maybe, but I doubt it and hope not.


The take is if a team gives you an offer you can’t refuse for him, you do it. But otherwise, we’re losing Harris next year, let’s not try to break in two safeties the same year.


Resign him to a 3-year deal with a lower hit. Go. He’s still playing well. Better this year that last, imho.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by hategreenticemase »

Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:58 pm Maybe, but I doubt it and hope not.


The take is if a team gives you an offer you can’t refuse for him, you do it. But otherwise, we’re losing Harris next year, let’s not try to break in two safeties the same year.


Resign him to a 3-year deal with a lower hit. Go. He’s still playing well. Better this year that last, imho.
This. I have to believe he could potentially be a small way to save some cap long term.

Guy is a smart mofo, and a guy I would love having another 5 years even. Let him lead these young db's.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by JPM »

hategreenticemase wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm
Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:58 pm Maybe, but I doubt it and hope not.


The take is if a team gives you an offer you can’t refuse for him, you do it. But otherwise, we’re losing Harris next year, let’s not try to break in two safeties the same year.


Resign him to a 3-year deal with a lower hit. Go. He’s still playing well. Better this year that last, imho.
This. I have to believe he could potentially be a small way to save some cap long term.

Guy is a smart mofo, and a guy I would love having another 5 years even. Let him lead these young db's.
Solid player but terrible open field tackler and bad angles too often. Move on.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by HeHateMe »

JPM wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:22 pm
hategreenticemase wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm
Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:58 pm Maybe, but I doubt it and hope not.


The take is if a team gives you an offer you can’t refuse for him, you do it. But otherwise, we’re losing Harris next year, let’s not try to break in two safeties the same year.


Resign him to a 3-year deal with a lower hit. Go. He’s still playing well. Better this year that last, imho.
This. I have to believe he could potentially be a small way to save some cap long term.

Guy is a smart mofo, and a guy I would love having another 5 years even. Let him lead these young db's.
Solid player but terrible open field tackler and bad angles too often. Move on.
I'm confused if it's Harris or Smith talked about here....

Harris is a guy I let walk after this year... or try like hell to trade. Smith I give a new deal to in the summer to extend his money out, lower the cap hit.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Phrooster »

Any old high priced player needs to be moved
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by JPM »

HeHateMe wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:43 pm
JPM wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:22 pm
hategreenticemase wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm

This. I have to believe he could potentially be a small way to save some cap long term.

Guy is a smart mofo, and a guy I would love having another 5 years even. Let him lead these young db's.
Solid player but terrible open field tackler and bad angles too often. Move on.
I'm confused if it's Harris or Smith talked about here....

Harris is a guy I let walk after this year... or try like hell to trade. Smith I give a new deal to in the summer to extend his money out, lower the cap hit.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by RubeTube »

Who says Smith wants to come back? He's aging and doesn't have many chances left.

Dougie Wolfson (A complete dope) said there were rumblings of veteran players wanting out of here and the rumored names were Smith, Thielen and Rudolph but who knows. Kendricks name popped up as someone unhappy with the staff too.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by PurpleFloyd »

I like him but at some point they need to go. Same with Theilen. The roster needs to get younger and we need a new coach/ GM. This particular group has grown long in the tooth and we need a fresh new start
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Obi-Wan »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:29 pm Who says Smith wants to come back? He's aging and doesn't have many chances left.

Dougie Wolfson (A complete dope) said there were rumblings of veteran players wanting out of here and the rumored names were Smith, Thielen and Rudolph but who knows. Kendricks name popped up as someone unhappy with the staff too.
Rudolph and kendricks are overpaid. Thielen is good but he is pouty and getting older. Smith gets burned guessing quite often. Trade or cut them all after the season.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Angry Waters »

I hope we're not watching Smith's last season. Or Thielen's. I think both can still be effective players 2 or 3 years from now when hopefully we'll have righted the 'ol ship. The problem is no one is going to give requisite value to what rubes think each player is worth. I think Hitman is a better player than Jamal Adams but if anyone thinks we're getting a fraction of what the Jets received (simply because of age) they're fooling themselves. I'm not an expert on the cap, but I'd prefer to outright release Kirk (if we're not able to trade him--and we won't be) after this year and deal with the ramifications sooner, rather than later. Effectively, it will mean a very ugly 2021 but if we're able to land the right QB, I think we'd be able to be competitive beginning 2022 as the cupboard isn't completely bare.

It still goes back to who's guiding the ship? I've been supportive of Rick and Zim but it certainly feels like they've run their course. We'll see if they lose the locker room. The more they lose, the more likely that becomes. I think nailing the right GM is probably the most important discussion topic moving forward, to be honest.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Night Train »

He's been great and all... but I think he's been declining a bit and best to get rid of players a year early than a year late.

That's kind of been the problem with this franchise, we tend to be too loyal sometimes.

Thanks Harrison, it's been great, and good luck with your next team.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by D_H »

Trade him, and Kyle Rudolph now.

Jefferson
Cook
Hendricks

Everyone else should be on the block
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by hategreenticemase »

Obi-Wan wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:56 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:29 pm Who says Smith wants to come back? He's aging and doesn't have many chances left.

Dougie Wolfson (A complete dope) said there were rumblings of veteran players wanting out of here and the rumored names were Smith, Thielen and Rudolph but who knows. Kendricks name popped up as someone unhappy with the staff too.
Rudolph and kendricks are overpaid. Thielen is good but he is pouty and getting older. Smith gets burned guessing quite often. Trade or cut them all after the season.
Kendricks is overpaid? :lol:
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by flexbuffchest »

Bros Before Shiancoes wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:44 pm
UnFadeable21 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by jffl_commish »

Let's get Tropical
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Obi-Wan »

hategreenticemase wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:37 am
Obi-Wan wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:56 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:29 pm Who says Smith wants to come back? He's aging and doesn't have many chances left.

Dougie Wolfson (A complete dope) said there were rumblings of veteran players wanting out of here and the rumored names were Smith, Thielen and Rudolph but who knows. Kendricks name popped up as someone unhappy with the staff too.
Rudolph and kendricks are overpaid. Thielen is good but he is pouty and getting older. Smith gets burned guessing quite often. Trade or cut them all after the season.
Kendricks is overpaid? :lol:
Yes. I would not pay that much for a LB.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by hategreenticemase »

Obi-Wan wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:05 pm
hategreenticemase wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:37 am
Obi-Wan wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:56 pm

Rudolph and kendricks are overpaid. Thielen is good but he is pouty and getting older. Smith gets burned guessing quite often. Trade or cut them all after the season.
Kendricks is overpaid? :lol:
Yes. I would not pay that much for a LB.
Stop acting like he is one of the top paid defensive players in the league. He is a very good player and is making reasonable salary commensurate for being a good player.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Ash Ketchum »

hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:22 am
Obi-Wan wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:05 pm
hategreenticemase wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:37 am

Kendricks is overpaid? :lol:
Yes. I would not pay that much for a LB.
Stop acting like he is one of the top paid defensive players in the league. He is a very good player and is making reasonable salary commensurate for being a good player.
He's a Mike LB about to count $13 million, $13.5 million and $11.4 million against the cap in his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but on a rebuilding team, it's absolutely fair to want to move on from that, especially at MLB... the most overrated position on the defense by fans.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by hategreenticemase »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:27 am
hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:22 am
Obi-Wan wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:05 pm
Yes. I would not pay that much for a LB.
Stop acting like he is one of the top paid defensive players in the league. He is a very good player and is making reasonable salary commensurate for being a good player.
He's a Mike LB about to count $13 million, $13.5 million and $11.4 million against the cap in his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but on a rebuilding team, it's absolutely fair to want to move on from that, especially at MLB... the most overrated position on the defense by fans.
Sorry, but you are simply wrong.

I like that you are younger and bring some analytics and fresh thinking on things like cap and team construction, but in my opinion you get so tunnel visioned on some things with cap or "where cap can be allocated". An example (but not a great one due to there is legit injury concerns and therefore I am torn myself on the subject of Cook) is you wouldnt ever consider paying a rb big money. While I agree in general with the overall strategy, I also would then reconsider it in specific circumstances with an offense changer like Cook. In your leadership, we would have never had AP beyond rookie contract.

Bobby Wagner makes 18M. Mosely 17M. Jack, Jones, Thompson and Cunningham all 13-14M. Sorry, its but its absurd to think Kendricks is overpaid. I do agree with you that MLB aint like the 80s and 90s now. Its not as important. The difference is, Kendricks is a player. He makes plays, he is a big part of the D. And he makes reasonable, almost, inexpensive, salary. Again, I think its absurd to intimate he is overpaid.

Here is my point. I do NOT have to have a big time or best S in the league to have a very good D. Simply do not. There is no question a MAJOR part of our D prowess the last many years is we have one of the best S in the league in Smith. He is a player, a playmaker, a blue chipper. By your way of thinking, I may not have retained him because "I dont have to have the top S in league". My thinking is, I need blue chippers/play makers and the guy is a great player, I have no issue paying him.

Its not a chess board. Different players have differing levels of impact regardless of position. I think its great to have overall big picture planning on team construction managing the cap, I really do. But you also have to be flexible and understand its about being at minimum good on both lines, good at qb and then having enough playmakers at key spots etc.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Oriole81 »

Plus, Kendricks can play any LB position.
He only happens to play MLB for us because that's where he fits best with our particular personnel, but you're doing him a serious disservice to pigeon hole him as just a MLB.
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by hategreenticemase »

Oriole81 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:32 pm Plus, Kendricks can play any LB position.
He only happens to play MLB for us because that's where he fits best with our particular personnel, but you're doing him a serious disservice to pigeon hole him as just a MLB.
Yep, and again, he is simply a damn good defensive player. No issues paying a damn good def player his salary. Hell, look at what we pay Barr!
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Re: Are We Watching Harrison Smith’s Last Season as a Viking?

Post by Ash Ketchum »

hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:30 pm
Ash Ketchum wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:27 am
hategreenticemase wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:22 am

Stop acting like he is one of the top paid defensive players in the league. He is a very good player and is making reasonable salary commensurate for being a good player.
He's a Mike LB about to count $13 million, $13.5 million and $11.4 million against the cap in his age 29, 30 and 31 seasons.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but on a rebuilding team, it's absolutely fair to want to move on from that, especially at MLB... the most overrated position on the defense by fans.
Sorry, but you are simply wrong.

I like that you are younger and bring some analytics and fresh thinking on things like cap and team construction, but in my opinion you get so tunnel visioned on some things with cap or "where cap can be allocated". An example (but not a great one due to there is legit injury concerns and therefore I am torn myself on the subject of Cook) is you wouldnt ever consider paying a rb big money. While I agree in general with the overall strategy, I also would then reconsider it in specific circumstances with an offense changer like Cook. In your leadership, we would have never had AP beyond rookie contract.

Bobby Wagner makes 18M. Mosely 17M. Jack, Jones, Thompson and Cunningham all 13-14M. Sorry, its but its absurd to think Kendricks is overpaid. I do agree with you that MLB aint like the 80s and 90s now. Its not as important. The difference is, Kendricks is a player. He makes plays, he is a big part of the D. And he makes reasonable, almost, inexpensive, salary. Again, I think its absurd to intimate he is overpaid.

Here is my point. I do NOT have to have a big time or best S in the league to have a very good D. Simply do not. There is no question a MAJOR part of our D prowess the last many years is we have one of the best S in the league in Smith. He is a player, a playmaker, a blue chipper. By your way of thinking, I may not have retained him because "I dont have to have the top S in league". My thinking is, I need blue chippers/play makers and the guy is a great player, I have no issue paying him.

Its not a chess board. Different players have differing levels of impact regardless of position. I think its great to have overall big picture planning on team construction managing the cap, I really do. But you also have to be flexible and understand its about being at minimum good on both lines, good at qb and then having enough playmakers at key spots etc.
I’m wrong about what?

I never said, “Absolutely, Kendricks should be off this team.”

The numbers I posted are factual. The fact that interior LBs are overrated in their importance, while not an actual provable fact, is an opinion that is shared by many across the league, including yourself by the sounds of it.

Again, I think it’s fair to consider moving Kendricks for the right price considering where this team is and how much he makes at the position he plays.

I’m not calling for him to be traded or cut immediately. Just saying he could be included in that list of guys whom the Vikes are shopping.

You’re so quick to battle people on here, it’s like you exaggerate what people are actually saying.
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