Cousins contract - Mlhouse or any cap guru

[hategreenticemase]

Seems like there is several different viewpoints on the ramifications of Cousins contract. Seeing different dead money claims posted here and elsewhere.

Mlhouse, you see to have best handle here on cap situations. Can you answer these questions?

1. Is he tradeable? What's impact to his new team and what is ours?

2. What is cap hit if cut him prior to seasons end? Does it speed anything up for us?

3. What is it if cut in off season?

Read some saying its less dead money by waiting til after 21. My point is, who cares if it's fucking dead or just paid to him as a player - I'd rather have dead money and he is gone and preparing for the following year. I am all for what fixes the cap the fastest while moving on from his dumbass.

[JPM]

Wait a minute. You’re giving up already? Two mediocre guards and they have a top 5 offense to go with their already top 5 defense.

[mlhouse]

Cousins has $41 million dead money on the salary cap after this season. This includes $20 million in bonus money split between 2021 and 2022 and $21 million in guaranteed salary in 2021.

His contract also has what I call a "stack guarantee" in that his $35 million in 2022 salary is guaranteed on the 3rd league day of the 2021 season, a guarantee I doubt the team picks up (or ever intended to pick up).

I would argue that Cousins has some limited tradeability because $21 million is not a lot of money or a huge cap hit for a starting quarterback that is still above average in the NFL(the team acquiring him does not inherit the signing bonus cap hit). A team looking for a transition quarterback might be interested in acquiring him but isnt going to give up more than a token asset for him.

Depending on when in the league year the Vikings trade him they would absorb the $20 million signing bonus on the salary cap, but if they trade Cousins it is doubtful that $10-20 million will be meaningful to them.

[Ash Ketchum]

Cousins' actual contract breakdown looks like this:

2020 - $21 million against the cap. $62 million in dead money if cut.

2021 - $31 million against the cap. $41 million in dead money if cut.

2022 - $45 million against the cap. $10 million in dead money if cut.

BUT, there's apparently a clause in his contract where Cousins is locked in for 2022 at a RIDICULOUS $45 million cap number by the third day of the league year in 2021.

If that's true, the ONLY way to avoid either (A) absorbing a $41 million dead money penalty in 2021 or (B) having him on the roster through 2022 at $45 million against the cap is to trade him.

I do not know exactly how trading him works. Are we able to make the team taking him pay the dead money?

[hategreenticemase]

Wait a minute. You’re giving up already? Two mediocre guards and they have a top 5 offense to go with their already top 5 defense.

Clark, you are like a young bit again. Much like Nick Saban, I can motivate with the best of them. Calling out your laziness has been just what the Dr ordered. You are welcome, buddy.

[hategreenticemase]

Cousins has $41 million dead money on the salary cap after this season. This includes $20 million in bonus money split between 2021 and 2022 and $21 million in guaranteed salary in 2021.

His contract also has what I call a "stack guarantee" in that his $35 million in 2022 salary is guaranteed on the 3rd league day of the 2021 season, a guarantee I doubt the team picks up (or ever intended to pick up).

I would argue that Cousins has some limited tradeability because $21 million is not a lot of money or a huge cap hit for a starting quarterback that is still above average in the NFL(the team acquiring him does not inherit the signing bonus cap hit). A team looking for a transition quarterback might be interested in acquiring him but isnt going to give up more than a token asset for him.

Depending on when in the league year the Vikings trade him they would absorb the $20 million signing bonus on the salary cap, but if they trade Cousins it is doubtful that $10-20 million will be meaningful to them.

So, you are suggesting trading him if possible and all it costs us is 20M or less in dead money? Or, if not possible, trade him at conclusion of this year and take the 41M hit next year in dead money?

[hategreenticemase]

Cousins' actual contract breakdown looks like this:

2020 - $21 million against the cap. $62 million in dead money if cut.

2021 - $31 million against the cap. $41 million in dead money if cut.

2022 - $45 million against the cap. $10 million in dead money if cut.

BUT, there's apparently a clause in his contract where Cousins is locked in for 2022 at a RIDICULOUS $45 million cap number by the third day of the league year in 2021.

If that's true, the ONLY way to avoid either (A) absorbing a $41 million dead money penalty in 2021 or (B) having him on the roster through 2022 at $45 million against the cap is to trade him.

I do not know exactly how trading him works. Are we able to make the team taking him pay the dead money?

I will ask you the same question I just asked Mlhouse. Is that your opinion as well?

[mlhouse]

Cousins' actual contract breakdown looks like this:

2020 - $21 million against the cap. $62 million in dead money if cut.

2021 - $31 million against the cap. $41 million in dead money if cut.

2022 - $45 million against the cap. $10 million in dead money if cut.

BUT, there's apparently a clause in his contract where Cousins is locked in for 2022 at a RIDICULOUS $45 million cap number by the third day of the league year in 2021.

If that's true, the ONLY way to avoid either (A) absorbing a $41 million dead money penalty in 2021 or (B) having him on the roster through 2022 at $45 million against the cap is to trade him.

I do not know exactly how trading him works. Are we able to make the team taking him pay the dead money?

1. It isn't the "only way" going forward. The Vikings can restructure the deal in a lot of different ways and eliminate the 2022 guarantee. That is the value of a "stack" guarantee it gives you the option to evaluate where you are after a year before a huge chunk of money is guaranteed.

2. If he is traded the Vikings absorb the signing bonus amortization on the salary cap. How that is amortized after the trade depends on when he is traded, If he is traded before 6/1 then all of the dead money is absorbed in that league year. If he is traded after 6/1 then then the only the current year's dead cap is absorbed on that salary cap year and the remainder of the dead cap comes off the following year. So for Cousins if he was traded before 6/1 of next season the Vikings would absorb $20 million in dead cap in 2021. If he is traded after 6/1, then they would have $10 million dead on 2021 and $10 million dead on 2020 salary caps.

[hategreenticemase]

Cousins' actual contract breakdown looks like this:

2020 - $21 million against the cap. $62 million in dead money if cut.

2021 - $31 million against the cap. $41 million in dead money if cut.

2022 - $45 million against the cap. $10 million in dead money if cut.

BUT, there's apparently a clause in his contract where Cousins is locked in for 2022 at a RIDICULOUS $45 million cap number by the third day of the league year in 2021.

If that's true, the ONLY way to avoid either (A) absorbing a $41 million dead money penalty in 2021 or (B) having him on the roster through 2022 at $45 million against the cap is to trade him.

I do not know exactly how trading him works. Are we able to make the team taking him pay the dead money?

1. It isn't the "only way" going forward. The Vikings can restructure the deal in a lot of different ways and eliminate the 2022 guarantee. That is the value of a "stack" guarantee it gives you the option to evaluate where you are after a year before a huge chunk of money is guaranteed.

2. If he is traded the Vikings absorb the signing bonus amortization on the salary cap. How that is amortized after the trade depends on when he is traded, If he is traded before 6/1 then all of the dead money is absorbed in that league year. If he is traded after 6/1 then then the only the current year's dead cap is absorbed on that salary cap year and the remainder of the dead cap comes off the following year. So for Cousins if he was traded before 6/1 of next season the Vikings would absorb $20 million in dead cap in 2021. If he is traded after 6/1, then they would have $10 million dead on 2021 and $10 million dead on 2020 salary caps.

So what if he is traded tomorrow. Are you saying its still the 20M next year cap? Or were you saying traded AFTER the season but BEFORE 6/1?

To me, this is the ideal scenario, if they could get absolutely anything for him. Or just cut him in off season, take the damn hit, and move the F on.

[Da Gas Man]

If they cut him before the 2022 guarantees, they will have effectively paid him $60M for one bad year of service as well as a huge cap hit next year. Right?

[Blandon]

In the span of two weeks, Paul Charchian went from telling us that the Cousins contract was a good deal for the Vikings to "no other team will take Cousins' contract."

[PurpleFloyd]

In the most simple terms- “We are screwed”

[hategreenticemase]

In the most simple terms- “We are screwed”

Yeah there really is no way around the contract problem. This team could and should have been a one year rebuild potentially (if they got the real deal rookie qb) but the cap impact will make it a two year rebuild at best.

[Hornets]

Why do Minny sports teams get caught up with these hellacious contracts? Zach and Ryan for the Wild (Hole Nova will love this), Joe for the Twins, Kirk for the Queens.....WHY??!?!

[jffl_commish]

There are a lot of reasons Spielman should be fired. The Cousins extension should be the nail in the coffin.

[Tmoney]

Rick made his bed, he needs to lay in it. Zimmer warned him against it.

[Ash Ketchum]

Cousins' actual contract breakdown looks like this:

2020 - $21 million against the cap. $62 million in dead money if cut.

2021 - $31 million against the cap. $41 million in dead money if cut.

2022 - $45 million against the cap. $10 million in dead money if cut.

BUT, there's apparently a clause in his contract where Cousins is locked in for 2022 at a RIDICULOUS $45 million cap number by the third day of the league year in 2021.

If that's true, the ONLY way to avoid either (A) absorbing a $41 million dead money penalty in 2021 or (B) having him on the roster through 2022 at $45 million against the cap is to trade him.

I do not know exactly how trading him works. Are we able to make the team taking him pay the dead money?

1. It isn't the "only way" going forward. The Vikings can restructure the deal in a lot of different ways and eliminate the 2022 guarantee. That is the value of a "stack" guarantee it gives you the option to evaluate where you are after a year before a huge chunk of money is guaranteed.

2. If he is traded the Vikings absorb the signing bonus amortization on the salary cap. How that is amortized after the trade depends on when he is traded, If he is traded before 6/1 then all of the dead money is absorbed in that league year. If he is traded after 6/1 then then the only the current year's dead cap is absorbed on that salary cap year and the remainder of the dead cap comes off the following year. So for Cousins if he was traded before 6/1 of next season the Vikings would absorb $20 million in dead cap in 2021. If he is traded after 6/1, then they would have $10 million dead on 2021 and $10 million dead on 2020 salary caps.

Are teams able to negotiate how much of that dead money hit is absorbed by whom as part of a trade?

[Straight Edge Raven]

Let him work out his contract, while T Law or someone else learns then NFL way ready to come and dominate.

[mlhouse]

Cousins' actual contract breakdown looks like this:

2020 - $21 million against the cap. $62 million in dead money if cut.

2021 - $31 million against the cap. $41 million in dead money if cut.

2022 - $45 million against the cap. $10 million in dead money if cut.

BUT, there's apparently a clause in his contract where Cousins is locked in for 2022 at a RIDICULOUS $45 million cap number by the third day of the league year in 2021.

If that's true, the ONLY way to avoid either (A) absorbing a $41 million dead money penalty in 2021 or (B) having him on the roster through 2022 at $45 million against the cap is to trade him.

I do not know exactly how trading him works. Are we able to make the team taking him pay the dead money?

1. It isn't the "only way" going forward. The Vikings can restructure the deal in a lot of different ways and eliminate the 2022 guarantee. That is the value of a "stack" guarantee it gives you the option to evaluate where you are after a year before a huge chunk of money is guaranteed.

2. If he is traded the Vikings absorb the signing bonus amortization on the salary cap. How that is amortized after the trade depends on when he is traded, If he is traded before 6/1 then all of the dead money is absorbed in that league year. If he is traded after 6/1 then then the only the current year's dead cap is absorbed on that salary cap year and the remainder of the dead cap comes off the following year. So for Cousins if he was traded before 6/1 of next season the Vikings would absorb $20 million in dead cap in 2021. If he is traded after 6/1, then they would have $10 million dead on 2021 and $10 million dead on 2020 salary caps.

Are teams able to negotiate how much of that dead money hit is absorbed by whom as part of a trade?

No, it is absorbed by the signing team in every case.

[RM22]

Kirk Cousins is the worst Viking Free Agent.

[RubeTube]

In the most simple terms- “We are screwed”

Yeah there really is no way around the contract problem. This team could and should have been a one year rebuild potentially (if they got the real deal rookie qb) but the cap impact will make it a two year rebuild at best.

Huh? Just a week ago you said we were fine.

I said this past spring that Rick, Zimmer and Kirk should all have to prove it this year.

Imagine how easy this would have been right now. Instead, they hand all these guys extensions. The big 3 hadn't even won a division title together. Now we are locked into the suck.

Wilfs need to take some boame here as well.

Edit: Also shouldn't have handed Cook the extension.

Very exciting to be going through a rebuild and have a 10+ million dollar China doll RB on the roster!

[hategreenticemase]

In the most simple terms- “We are screwed”

Yeah there really is no way around the contract problem. This team could and should have been a one year rebuild potentially (if they got the real deal rookie qb) but the cap impact will make it a two year rebuild at best.

Huh? Just a week ago you said we were fine.

I said this past spring that Rick, Zimmer and Kirk should all have to prove it this year.

Imagine how easy this would have been right now. Instead, they hand all these guys extensions. The big 3 hadn't even won a division title together. Now we are locked into the suck.

Wilfs need to take some boame here as well.

Edit: Also shouldn't have handed Cook the extension.

Very exciting to be going through a rebuild and have a 10+ million dollar China doll RB on the roster!

After Cousins played well in games 3-4 and then outstanding after the pick in Seattle, I forgot about games 1-2 where he was mystifying in how bad he was and thought he was back on track.

Now, after this debacle Sunday I am back to "wtf is wrong with him". If you remember first couple weeks I was like is the guy hurt or wtf is wrong with him because he never looked like that last year. At this point I dont know what's wrong with him and I don't care. It's not happening here with him.

Yes I have said a couple of quality guards would raise this offense to top 5 but that was assuming Kirk would be like he is capable of. I am done with him, for fuck sakes he can't even go a game without throwing picks now. I dont get it, I dont need to get it and I don't want to get it, I just want out.

[Philo Beddoe]

Who is going to trade for a QB and a contract that is going to pay him $45 million in 2022?

[Small Hands]

Who is going to trade for a QB and a contract that is going to pay him $45 million in 2022?

No one

[Tmoney]

Against the worst defense in the league, on a play where he had perfect protection he threw a pass some rookies wouldnt.

Started the game as bad as possible, and it took him 3 quarters to recover.

He doesnt have the traits that a QB from good to great.

It's why he has hovered around .500 his career.

Hes a coach killer, and a team wrecker.

Zimmer knew it. Ex teammates like Ryan Clark have said it.

[HeHateMe]

So trade is the best route according to an actual cap guy?

https://overthecap.com/what-can-the-vik ... k-cousins/

Cousins is in the middle of an implosion game that comes 6 games into what looks like an implosion season and I am getting a number of questions about how the Vikings can escape his contract. So I’ll put together here a brief explanation as to how Cousins contract works and what they would need to do to move on from him.

The Vikings in need for some salary cap relief surprisingly extended Cousins this past March rather than seeing how things would play out this year and then offering an extension. The new contract gave Cousins a $10 million raise in 2020 and guaranteed him $21 million for 2021. He was paid a $30 million signing bonus this year as well. Those numbers right now are set in stone.

Things get trickier next year. If they were to cut Cousins they will have to cut him a check for $21 million, basically meaning they paid an extra $31 million for whatever performance you are getting on the field this year. In my mind that kind of mistake puts you as a GM on the chopping block with ownership no matter what your track record is. However if they do not cut him by the 3rd day of the league year then his 2022 salary will become fully guaranteed. That salary is worth $35 million.

The cost to cut Cousins on the salary cap in 2021 is $41 million, $10 million higher than Cousins $31 million salary cap figure. The Vikings already project to be about $14 million over the cap after futures signings so that would push them to $24 million over. No salary figures would be left for Cousins in 2022 if cut this way.



A trade is a more viable option. In a trade the guarantee travels from Minnesota to the acquiring team so the dead money is just $20 million. Cousins $21 million salary in 2021 would be acceptable to a team trading for him if they believe they can rehab him as $20 million is low end money for a starting veteran. The 2022 guarantee for $35 million could be problematic and would require a team to be pretty bullish on Cousins. There is also the possibility of reworking the contract to make it easier for another team.

The only type of team to be willing to trade for Cousins would be a team that envisions itself as a good football team with no avenue to obtain a starting QB. Those teams would include teams like the Colts and possibly the Bears and 49ers. Perhaps the Broncos would at least throw a feeler out there as well.

If those routes do not exist then the next out would be to force themselves to part with a high draft pick in return for someone taking on the salary. The Jets, Jaguars, and perhaps the Patriots would be the teams that would be in a position to do it next year. The Vikings, who would also be leaving themselves without a QB in such a trade, may be able to get the Jets or Jaguars young QBs as part of a trade if either of those teams winds up with the 1st pick in the draft. Given the guarantee at play I would think it would require including a 1st round pick.

If a trade is not an option and they decide they want to eat the cost and move on there is probably only one path. What the Vikings would have to do in that case is designate Cousins a post June 1 cut at the start of free agency. That would allow them to keep Cousins on the books at $31 million for the entire 2021 season and defer $10 million to 2022.

There are some ways to potentially change that split a bit more with a restructure but that would have to occur before the end of this season. The Vikings lack of cap room this year make this much harder to do but it may not be a bad decision if they are willing to eat salary in a trade anyway.

Barring a big turnaround over the next 10 games this extension with Cousins is probably going to be one of the bigger stories of this year and next offseason.

[JigglyPuff]

Since 2018, Mike Zimmer and Kirk Cousins are 3-16 vs teams that finish the season above .500 and only 2-14 against teams that wound up making the playoffs.

FUCKING PATHETIC!

[Oriole81]

So trade is the best route according to an actual cap guy?

https://overthecap.com/what-can-the-vik ... k-cousins/

Cousins is in the middle of an implosion game that comes 6 games into what looks like an implosion season and I am getting a number of questions about how the Vikings can escape his contract. So I’ll put together here a brief explanation as to how Cousins contract works and what they would need to do to move on from him.

The Vikings in need for some salary cap relief surprisingly extended Cousins this past March rather than seeing how things would play out this year and then offering an extension. The new contract gave Cousins a $10 million raise in 2020 and guaranteed him $21 million for 2021. He was paid a $30 million signing bonus this year as well. Those numbers right now are set in stone.

Things get trickier next year. If they were to cut Cousins they will have to cut him a check for $21 million, basically meaning they paid an extra $31 million for whatever performance you are getting on the field this year. In my mind that kind of mistake puts you as a GM on the chopping block with ownership no matter what your track record is. However if they do not cut him by the 3rd day of the league year then his 2022 salary will become fully guaranteed. That salary is worth $35 million.

The cost to cut Cousins on the salary cap in 2021 is $41 million, $10 million higher than Cousins $31 million salary cap figure. The Vikings already project to be about $14 million over the cap after futures signings so that would push them to $24 million over. No salary figures would be left for Cousins in 2022 if cut this way.



A trade is a more viable option. In a trade the guarantee travels from Minnesota to the acquiring team so the dead money is just $20 million. Cousins $21 million salary in 2021 would be acceptable to a team trading for him if they believe they can rehab him as $20 million is low end money for a starting veteran. The 2022 guarantee for $35 million could be problematic and would require a team to be pretty bullish on Cousins. There is also the possibility of reworking the contract to make it easier for another team.

The only type of team to be willing to trade for Cousins would be a team that envisions itself as a good football team with no avenue to obtain a starting QB. Those teams would include teams like the Colts and possibly the Bears and 49ers. Perhaps the Broncos would at least throw a feeler out there as well.

If those routes do not exist then the next out would be to force themselves to part with a high draft pick in return for someone taking on the salary. The Jets, Jaguars, and perhaps the Patriots would be the teams that would be in a position to do it next year. The Vikings, who would also be leaving themselves without a QB in such a trade, may be able to get the Jets or Jaguars young QBs as part of a trade if either of those teams winds up with the 1st pick in the draft. Given the guarantee at play I would think it would require including a 1st round pick.

If a trade is not an option and they decide they want to eat the cost and move on there is probably only one path. What the Vikings would have to do in that case is designate Cousins a post June 1 cut at the start of free agency. That would allow them to keep Cousins on the books at $31 million for the entire 2021 season and defer $10 million to 2022.

There are some ways to potentially change that split a bit more with a restructure but that would have to occur before the end of this season. The Vikings lack of cap room this year make this much harder to do but it may not be a bad decision if they are willing to eat salary in a trade anyway.

Barring a big turnaround over the next 10 games this extension with Cousins is probably going to be one of the bigger stories of this year and next offseason.

This extension has already been an abject failure. Just keeping him around for appearance sake does no good.

[Tmoney]

So trade is the best route according to an actual cap guy?

https://overthecap.com/what-can-the-vik ... k-cousins/

Cousins is in the middle of an implosion game that comes 6 games into what looks like an implosion season and I am getting a number of questions about how the Vikings can escape his contract. So I’ll put together here a brief explanation as to how Cousins contract works and what they would need to do to move on from him.

The Vikings in need for some salary cap relief surprisingly extended Cousins this past March rather than seeing how things would play out this year and then offering an extension. The new contract gave Cousins a $10 million raise in 2020 and guaranteed him $21 million for 2021. He was paid a $30 million signing bonus this year as well. Those numbers right now are set in stone.

Things get trickier next year. If they were to cut Cousins they will have to cut him a check for $21 million, basically meaning they paid an extra $31 million for whatever performance you are getting on the field this year. In my mind that kind of mistake puts you as a GM on the chopping block with ownership no matter what your track record is. However if they do not cut him by the 3rd day of the league year then his 2022 salary will become fully guaranteed. That salary is worth $35 million.

The cost to cut Cousins on the salary cap in 2021 is $41 million, $10 million higher than Cousins $31 million salary cap figure. The Vikings already project to be about $14 million over the cap after futures signings so that would push them to $24 million over. No salary figures would be left for Cousins in 2022 if cut this way.



A trade is a more viable option. In a trade the guarantee travels from Minnesota to the acquiring team so the dead money is just $20 million. Cousins $21 million salary in 2021 would be acceptable to a team trading for him if they believe they can rehab him as $20 million is low end money for a starting veteran. The 2022 guarantee for $35 million could be problematic and would require a team to be pretty bullish on Cousins. There is also the possibility of reworking the contract to make it easier for another team.

The only type of team to be willing to trade for Cousins would be a team that envisions itself as a good football team with no avenue to obtain a starting QB. Those teams would include teams like the Colts and possibly the Bears and 49ers. Perhaps the Broncos would at least throw a feeler out there as well.

If those routes do not exist then the next out would be to force themselves to part with a high draft pick in return for someone taking on the salary. The Jets, Jaguars, and perhaps the Patriots would be the teams that would be in a position to do it next year. The Vikings, who would also be leaving themselves without a QB in such a trade, may be able to get the Jets or Jaguars young QBs as part of a trade if either of those teams winds up with the 1st pick in the draft. Given the guarantee at play I would think it would require including a 1st round pick.

If a trade is not an option and they decide they want to eat the cost and move on there is probably only one path. What the Vikings would have to do in that case is designate Cousins a post June 1 cut at the start of free agency. That would allow them to keep Cousins on the books at $31 million for the entire 2021 season and defer $10 million to 2022.

There are some ways to potentially change that split a bit more with a restructure but that would have to occur before the end of this season. The Vikings lack of cap room this year make this much harder to do but it may not be a bad decision if they are willing to eat salary in a trade anyway.

Barring a big turnaround over the next 10 games this extension with Cousins is probably going to be one of the bigger stories of this year and next offseason.

This extension has already been an abject failure. Just keeping him around for appearance sake does no good.

This is why I cut Zimmer slack. He didnt want Kirk and knew this was a bad idea from the start. Rick has doubled down.

Rick goes, Zimmer stays.

[Oriole81]

So trade is the best route according to an actual cap guy?

https://overthecap.com/what-can-the-vik ... k-cousins/

This extension has already been an abject failure. Just keeping him around for appearance sake does no good.

This is why I cut Zimmer slack. He didnt want Kirk and knew this was a bad idea from the start. Rick has doubled down.

Rick goes, Zimmer stays.

I'll agree with the Zim/Cousins point I guess, but I still think Zim should go too.
After how many years of being here, he still struggles with in game management/adjustments, he still struggles with managing the clock, he doesn't take responsibility, and we've had far too many games over the past few seasons where we've just come out heartless. And that's all in addition to absolutely shitting the bed against Philly in the NFCCG when we had a home SB on the line.

He's a great defensive coordinator and he's good enough as a coach to probably keep the team competitive, but I really don't think he has improved in the areas of being a HC that truly make a difference in winning a championship.

Move on and get a fresh voice in here.
Could it blow up in our faces and have us regress even further? Sure, but if you believe that he's lacking in the most fundamental aspects of the job and question whether we can ever win a SB with him anyway, then you have nothing to lose.