"This is how pathetic your position is - you want people to absolve Spielman of allowing a singular unit to destroy a playoff caliber team because "hey, he tried, he used some high picks"
YOu think that is a argument FOR your case against Spielman? Again, the Vikings are 12th in the NFL in win-loss record over the last decade. That is the only objctive measure.
Lastly, trying to claim that it is all Mike Zimmer for this record is ridiculous because he wasn't the coach for the entire decade.
The Vikings were 24-39-1 in the 4 years prior to Zimmer. For a normally smart guy, you ain't do so good on this one, bud. Give up yet?
Yep. That marked the transition when Rick Spielman took over the player personnel decisions of the team.
2010 was the last Childress year and the year Brett Favre finally became human. We fired Childressafter a 3-7 start and had Leslie Frazier end the season 3-3 to end up 6-10.
2011 was Christian Ponder's rookie season and we struggled to a 3-13 record. This was the first draft the Spielman did without Brad Childress influence and it was by far his worst draft of his career.
2012 was Ponder's first full year as a starter and we went 10-6 and made the playoffs. While the results probably had more to do with Adrian Peterson's 2097 yards rushing, this was a very solid turnaround for the team coming out of the doldrums of the Childress era.
2013 was Leslie Frazier's last season and it was a disaster. Ponder was hurt and missed 6 games. Peterson was banged up all season and did not have the same results he did in 2012. Things were so bad we brought in Josh Freeman to be the quarterback and he turned out perhaps the worst start by an NFL QB ever (which was fascinating because Freeman in his 2nd season looked like he was going to have a solid NFL career, then it just fell off the table).
Frazier was fired and the team brought in Zimmer. So, I am not sure what your claims of those 4 years really serve except that Spielman and Zimmer started in a deep hole and they dug the franchise out. Thanks for contributing.
So Spielman started helping dig us out, just not til Zimmer got here. Ok, got it.
Seriously, can we move on? I am feeling guilty for making you look silly.
The Vikings were 24-39-1 in the 4 years prior to Zimmer. For a normally smart guy, you ain't do so good on this one, bud. Give up yet?
Yep. That marked the transition when Rick Spielman took over the player personnel decisions of the team.
2010 was the last Childress year and the year Brett Favre finally became human. We fired Childressafter a 3-7 start and had Leslie Frazier end the season 3-3 to end up 6-10.
2011 was Christian Ponder's rookie season and we struggled to a 3-13 record. This was the first draft the Spielman did without Brad Childress influence and it was by far his worst draft of his career.
2012 was Ponder's first full year as a starter and we went 10-6 and made the playoffs. While the results probably had more to do with Adrian Peterson's 2097 yards rushing, this was a very solid turnaround for the team coming out of the doldrums of the Childress era.
2013 was Leslie Frazier's last season and it was a disaster. Ponder was hurt and missed 6 games. Peterson was banged up all season and did not have the same results he did in 2012. Things were so bad we brought in Josh Freeman to be the quarterback and he turned out perhaps the worst start by an NFL QB ever (which was fascinating because Freeman in his 2nd season looked like he was going to have a solid NFL career, then it just fell off the table).
Frazier was fired and the team brought in Zimmer. So, I am not sure what your claims of those 4 years really serve except that Spielman and Zimmer started in a deep hole and they dug the franchise out. Thanks for contributing.
So Spielman started helping dig us out, just not til Zimmer got here. Ok, got it.
Seriously, can we move on? I am feeling guilty for making you look silly.
Dude, I am not the one who looks silly. The Vikings made the playoffs with Christian Ponder as their starter. That is a major dig out.
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:00 pm
We are not getting Lawrence.
If one of Fields or Lance is there and Rick goes another direction, I just might be done.
If Fields or Lance are already gone, I don't want a QB in rd #1. I might be done if Rick reaches for another Turd QB like he does so often.
You should be done if he is doing the picking at all.
Unfortunately I think chances are Rick and Zimmer are back here next year and will go 10-6 and get dumped right away in the offs and the misery continues.
Probably be their even year where they can't make consecutive playoffs that they go.
2022 me boy!
I'm just hoping for a slaughtering against the Packers after the bye week. Might be enough for Zimmer to be fired. I have a bad feeling Spielman is going to survive though.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
Yep. That marked the transition when Rick Spielman took over the player personnel decisions of the team.
2010 was the last Childress year and the year Brett Favre finally became human. We fired Childressafter a 3-7 start and had Leslie Frazier end the season 3-3 to end up 6-10.
2011 was Christian Ponder's rookie season and we struggled to a 3-13 record. This was the first draft the Spielman did without Brad Childress influence and it was by far his worst draft of his career.
2012 was Ponder's first full year as a starter and we went 10-6 and made the playoffs. While the results probably had more to do with Adrian Peterson's 2097 yards rushing, this was a very solid turnaround for the team coming out of the doldrums of the Childress era.
2013 was Leslie Frazier's last season and it was a disaster. Ponder was hurt and missed 6 games. Peterson was banged up all season and did not have the same results he did in 2012. Things were so bad we brought in Josh Freeman to be the quarterback and he turned out perhaps the worst start by an NFL QB ever (which was fascinating because Freeman in his 2nd season looked like he was going to have a solid NFL career, then it just fell off the table).
Frazier was fired and the team brought in Zimmer. So, I am not sure what your claims of those 4 years really serve except that Spielman and Zimmer started in a deep hole and they dug the franchise out. Thanks for contributing.
So Spielman started helping dig us out, just not til Zimmer got here. Ok, got it.
Seriously, can we move on? I am feeling guilty for making you look silly.
Dude, I am not the one who looks silly. The Vikings made the playoffs with Christian Ponder as their starter. That is a major dig out.
So Spielman started helping dig us out, just not til Zimmer got here. Ok, got it.
Seriously, can we move on? I am feeling guilty for making you look silly.
Dude, I am not the one who looks silly. The Vikings made the playoffs with Christian Ponder as their starter. That is a major dig out.
Yes, along with an MVP performance by a rb.
Absolutely. But then, again, I am not the one who brought up the poor record before Zimmer took over. You did, and that only enhances the Spielman argument.
Dude, I am not the one who looks silly. The Vikings made the playoffs with Christian Ponder as their starter. That is a major dig out.
Yes, along with an MVP performance by a rb.
Absolutely. But then, again, I am not the one who brought up the poor record before Zimmer took over. You did, and that only enhances the Spielman argument.
Dude, you need a nap. It doesn't remotely help your argument.
Absolutely. But then, again, I am not the one who brought up the poor record before Zimmer took over. You did, and that only enhances the Spielman argument.
Dude, you need a nap. It doesn't remotely help your argument.
LOL... that you do not understand that it does proves my argument.
Tmoney wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:42 am
With the albatross that his Cousins contract hanging over the team we can't even benefit from a QB on a rookie deal.
Rick Spielam buried this franchise for atleast this year and next.
Again, if we tank then there really isn't any "albatross" that exists. The salary cap ramifications of Cousins contract will be meaningless. The fact is, as I have pointed out, of the top 15 salaried players under contract for the Vikings only three players would be guarantees to bring back next season (Hunter, Cook, Bradbury), three I would rate as probable (Kendricks, Pierce, Hughes).
As for the other 10 top contracts in 2021, the most likely outcome is tha they will be released: Cousins, Barr, Reiff, Thielen, Smith, Rudolph, Stephen, Bailey, Colquit. The cap hit for these players is minor issue given the team rebuilding that is in order while the actual salaries of over $10 million are much more important.
And, claiming that this "buried" the franchise for this year and next is idiotic. When you rebuild a football team you are going to stink, and stink bad.
If they release Cousins after this season, how do they avoid the crippling $41 million dead money number?
I'm not challenging you. Your post actually gives me hope. I'm just looking for clarity on how that would work.
salamander wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:08 pm
I don't think we get last place in the league and Trevor Lawrence is going #1 (most likely to the Jets).
That being the case, I'm all aboard the Justin Fields train (choo CHOOO!). Dude looks like he's a baller.
He'll have to sit behind Cousins for a year most likely as he's not had a ton of playing time in collage (see: covid).
He's a run/pass threat and has an over 65% completion percentage paired with an ability to hit the long ball.
41 TD's/3 INT's with Ohio last year. His 9.2 yards per' average is actually better than Lawrence's 9.0 (2019).
I want him. This is the year to move up and get a QB if we're not quite in position to draft one of these two.
He seems like he’s a way better prospect than Haskins was. Vikings need to avoid making the same mistake the redskins did with him.
I just seriously doubt Zimmer and co would create an offense that is tailored to his strengths like what the cardinals have done with Murray and Ravens with Jackson.
Absolutely. But then, again, I am not the one who brought up the poor record before Zimmer took over. You did, and that only enhances the Spielman argument.
Dude, you need a nap. It doesn't remotely help your argument.
LOL... that you do not understand that it does proves my argument.
Whichever QB they draft early in 2021, they need to combine it with either a new offensive-minded HC or AT LEAST, they need to hire an innovative OC who can tailor a system to this new guy, and not just ruin him like I think Zimmer/Kubiak would.
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:13 pm
Whichever QB they draft early in 2021, they need to combine it with either a new offensive-minded HC or AT LEAST, they need to hire an innovative OC who can tailor a system to this new guy, and not just ruin him like I think Zimmer/Kubiak would.
Totally agree. If they do not change out the coaches then drafting a QB is a waste of resources in many ways.
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:13 pm
Whichever QB they draft early in 2021, they need to combine it with either a new offensive-minded HC or AT LEAST, they need to hire an innovative OC who can tailor a system to this new guy, and not just ruin him like I think Zimmer/Kubiak would.
Said this a LONG time ago.
I'm not convinced Mahomes would have even developed here. Zim would have had him scared to make a mistake and turning around and handing it off.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:13 pm
Whichever QB they draft early in 2021, they need to combine it with either a new offensive-minded HC or AT LEAST, they need to hire an innovative OC who can tailor a system to this new guy, and not just ruin him like I think Zimmer/Kubiak would.
Said this a LONG time ago.
I'm not convinced Mahomes would have even developed here. Zim would have had him scared to make a mistake and turning around and handing it off.
People underestimate the effect that landing in the right situation with the right coach and the systems in place can have on a QB.
I won’t really be excited about a shiny new first round QB coming to town just to work with Mike Zimmer and Gary Kubiak.
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:13 pm
Whichever QB they draft early in 2021, they need to combine it with either a new offensive-minded HC or AT LEAST, they need to hire an innovative OC who can tailor a system to this new guy, and not just ruin him like I think Zimmer/Kubiak would.
Said this a LONG time ago.
I'm not convinced Mahomes would have even developed here. Zim would have had him scared to make a mistake and turning around and handing it off.
People underestimate the effect that landing in the right situation with the right coach and the systems in place can have on a QB.
I won’t really be excited about a shiny new first round QB coming to town just to work with Mike Zimmer and Gary Kubiak.
Bring in Brady or Riley!
It is more fun watching quarterbacks versus offensive linemen. That is for sure.
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:13 pm
Whichever QB they draft early in 2021, they need to combine it with either a new offensive-minded HC or AT LEAST, they need to hire an innovative OC who can tailor a system to this new guy, and not just ruin him like I think Zimmer/Kubiak would.
Said this a LONG time ago.
I'm not convinced Mahomes would have even developed here. Zim would have had him scared to make a mistake and turning around and handing it off.
People underestimate the effect that landing in the right situation with the right coach and the systems in place can have on a QB.
I won’t really be excited about a shiny new first round QB coming to town just to work with Mike Zimmer and Gary Kubiak.
Bring in Brady or Riley!
Yep. Landing with Andy Reid is as good as it gets.
Imagine if the Bears selected Mahomes and the Chiefs took Trubisky. Could be having a different conversation.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:13 pm
Whichever QB they draft early in 2021, they need to combine it with either a new offensive-minded HC or AT LEAST, they need to hire an innovative OC who can tailor a system to this new guy, and not just ruin him like I think Zimmer/Kubiak would.
Said this a LONG time ago.
I'm not convinced Mahomes would have even developed here. Zim would have had him scared to make a mistake and turning around and handing it off.
People underestimate the effect that landing in the right situation with the right coach and the systems in place can have on a QB.
I won’t really be excited about a shiny new first round QB coming to town just to work with Mike Zimmer and Gary Kubiak.
Bring in Brady or Riley!
I see what you are saying.
But we haven't seen Zimmer either a really good QB yet.
I really doubt if he had one of these top QBs that he would turn them into Bridgwater.
I think he has wanted his QBs here to play that way because he knows anything more would lead to the season Kirk is having.
I think Zimmer would love to have a QB that puts up points and forces then other team to become 1 dimensional.
He just hasnt trusted the ones that he has been given.
