So how do we fix this?

[Car Ramrod]

While I still think Spielman and Zim can identify talent on defense and arguably WR.

Spielman simply has no imagination or eye for identifying good O line talent and most importantly QB.

Ponder, Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins. Those are the guys he has chosen to lead the Vikes to a Super Bowl win. It hasn’t worked. Time to move on. The extending of Cousins was the final nail in the coffin for me.

[mlhouse]

The easiest way to fix things is to run a lot more play action. This is what Kirk excels at and where his strength lies. Teddy was a QB who was better out of the shotgun and Norv put him under center too much. Kirk is better under center and Kubiak puts him in shotgun too much. Put him under center, run play action plays, let him do what he does best more often and the offense will be better. If we get the guards moving laterally that’s will help them look better as well as they won’t get bull rushed and moved backwards.

The problem with running more play action is that these passing plays are very slow developing and defenses counter the play action with heavy run blitzing that they just convert into pressure on the quarterback. For example, the safety in the loss to Green Bay was a run blitz that continued to the quarterback. To stop the run defenses are aggresively blitzing their gaps. It is difficult to block them and they continue to the QB when they realize it is PA.

The other issue with play action is that its effectiveness is very game condition driven. When you are losing, you can play action all you want and the opponents defense is simply going to rush the quarterback. Our simplistic offense is predicated on having leads and winning the time of possession and field position battles.

As I have pointed out many times the thing they need to do, and which they have tried to do in the games they played better offensively like Seattle, is have a complete package of modern NFL plays.

They need 3 step drops, 5 step drops, and timing routes that are quick routes. Nothing frustrates a pass rush more than a 3 step drop to a quick slant. It makes blitzing more difficult because the quick passes means the blitz will not be able to pressure the QB and it removes a defender from being able to contain the run after catch. It also puts more pressure on the safeties in run support because if they press forward in run support it could pop a slant for long yardage.

They need to attack the middle of the field much more which forces the defense to put a safety over the top, moving that defender away from the LOS and being able to play run support. Almost everything the Vikings do in their pass schemes is directed to a receiver running to the sidelines or who has stopped their route. Irv Smith (and even Kyle Rudolph) down the seam should be a big weapon for the Vikings. We don't even run the route.

When you combine all of these elements it opens up all of the others and you can see how the Vikings offense fails. We let the defense play 8 and even 9 man fronts, and stubbornly run into them. When we do pass it is a slow motion and slow developing pass play which allows the defenders to attack the deep QB drop and blitz with impunity. Our scheme puts our QB under pressure the entire game.

[hategreenticemase]

The easiest way to fix things is to run a lot more play action. This is what Kirk excels at and where his strength lies. Teddy was a QB who was better out of the shotgun and Norv put him under center too much. Kirk is better under center and Kubiak puts him in shotgun too much. Put him under center, run play action plays, let him do what he does best more often and the offense will be better. If we get the guards moving laterally that’s will help them look better as well as they won’t get bull rushed and moved backwards.

The problem with running more play action is that these passing plays are very slow developing and defenses counter the play action with heavy run blitzing that they just convert into pressure on the quarterback. For example, the safety in the loss to Green Bay was a run blitz that continued to the quarterback. To stop the run defenses are aggresively blitzing their gaps. It is difficult to block them and they continue to the QB when they realize it is PA.

The other issue with play action is that its effectiveness is very game condition driven. When you are losing, you can play action all you want and the opponents defense is simply going to rush the quarterback. Our simplistic offense is predicated on having leads and winning the time of possession and field position battles.

As I have pointed out many times the thing they need to do, and which they have tried to do in the games they played better offensively like Seattle, is have a complete package of modern NFL plays.

They need 3 step drops, 5 step drops, and timing routes that are quick routes. Nothing frustrates a pass rush more than a 3 step drop to a quick slant. It makes blitzing more difficult because the quick passes means the blitz will not be able to pressure the QB and it removes a defender from being able to contain the run after catch. It also puts more pressure on the safeties in run support because if they press forward in run support it could pop a slant for long yardage.

They need to attack the middle of the field much more which forces the defense to put a safety over the top, moving that defender away from the LOS and being able to play run support. Almost everything the Vikings do in their pass schemes is directed to a receiver running to the sidelines or who has stopped their route. Irv Smith (and even Kyle Rudolph) down the seam should be a big weapon for the Vikings. We don't even run the route.

When you combine all of these elements it opens up all of the others and you can see how the Vikings offense fails. We let the defense play 8 and even 9 man fronts, and stubbornly run into them. When we do pass it is a slow motion and slow developing pass play which allows the defenders to attack the deep QB drop and blitz with impunity. Our scheme puts our QB under pressure the entire game.

Again, good stuff and I agree with 80% of it, but you overvalue the scheme element and undervalue the interior ol issues. But I do agree 100% with your ideas being more consistently utilized would help.

Play action is hugely successful when:

A. You have a qb who sells the fake well, this is underrated piece to it and many qbs suck at it. Cousins does not suck at it.

B. The D fears your run and or has to start doing things differently (bring down a S, run blitz) to stop the run

C. The D believes you are going to run

Mlhouse is spot fn on regarding two points. First, Play action is rendered almost useless when you are trailing late or trailing big early. Second, defenses figured out somewhere in later Oct last year that they could run blitz the shit out this guard-garbage OL without impunity. You stop it by gashing them donwfield in play action. We couldn't because the Vikings couldn't stop me and Beefie in run blitz much less NFL players.

Mlhouse is also right, further issue is slow developing plays are blown up for same reason, we can't possibly block it properly.

Great stuff.

[HeHateMe]

While I still think Spielman and Zim can identify talent on defense and arguably WR.

Spielman simply has no imagination or eye for identifying good O line talent and most importantly QB.

Ponder, Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins. Those are the guys he has chosen to lead the Vikes to a Super Bowl win. It hasn’t worked. Time to move on. The extending of Cousins was the final nail in the coffin for me.

Healthy Bradford in 2017 would have been interesting... the way he started against New Orleans that year was so impressive. He had a great arm and great accuracy... not mobile at all compared to the rest of those guys and Keenum but he could get the ball out quick.


Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum

[Tmoney]

While I still think Spielman and Zim can identify talent on defense and arguably WR.

Spielman simply has no imagination or eye for identifying good O line talent and most importantly QB.

Ponder, Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins. Those are the guys he has chosen to lead the Vikes to a Super Bowl win. It hasn’t worked. Time to move on. The extending of Cousins was the final nail in the coffin for me.

Healthy Bradford in 2017 would have been interesting... the way he started against New Orleans that year was so impressive. He had a great arm and great accuracy... not mobile at all compared to the rest of those guys and Keenum but he could get the ball out quick.


Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum

That's how you mitigate being a pocket passer with a poor line. Identify where you are going with the ball usually presnap and trust it and let it rip. Bradford could do that.

Kirk is a gotta see it before I trust it guy, and that doesn't work with a line that struggles to hold up. He has the arm to make up for it usually. But quick pressure ruins the guy

[PurpleFloyd]

The easiest way to fix things is to run a lot more play action. This is what Kirk excels at and where his strength lies. Teddy was a QB who was better out of the shotgun and Norv put him under center too much. Kirk is better under center and Kubiak puts him in shotgun too much. Put him under center, run play action plays, let him do what he does best more often and the offense will be better. If we get the guards moving laterally that’s will help them look better as well as they won’t get bull rushed and moved backwards.

The problem with running more play action is that these passing plays are very slow developing and defenses counter the play action with heavy run blitzing that they just convert into pressure on the quarterback. For example, the safety in the loss to Green Bay was a run blitz that continued to the quarterback. To stop the run defenses are aggresively blitzing their gaps. It is difficult to block them and they continue to the QB when they realize it is PA.

The other issue with play action is that its effectiveness is very game condition driven. When you are losing, you can play action all you want and the opponents defense is simply going to rush the quarterback. Our simplistic offense is predicated on having leads and winning the time of possession and field position battles.

As I have pointed out many times the thing they need to do, and which they have tried to do in the games they played better offensively like Seattle, is have a complete package of modern NFL plays.

They need 3 step drops, 5 step drops, and timing routes that are quick routes. Nothing frustrates a pass rush more than a 3 step drop to a quick slant. It makes blitzing more difficult because the quick passes means the blitz will not be able to pressure the QB and it removes a defender from being able to contain the run after catch. It also puts more pressure on the safeties in run support because if they press forward in run support it could pop a slant for long yardage.

They need to attack the middle of the field much more which forces the defense to put a safety over the top, moving that defender away from the LOS and being able to play run support. Almost everything the Vikings do in their pass schemes is directed to a receiver running to the sidelines or who has stopped their route. Irv Smith (and even Kyle Rudolph) down the seam should be a big weapon for the Vikings. We don't even run the route.

When you combine all of these elements it opens up all of the others and you can see how the Vikings offense fails. We let the defense play 8 and even 9 man fronts, and stubbornly run into them. When we do pass it is a slow motion and slow developing pass play which allows the defenders to attack the deep QB drop and blitz with impunity. Our scheme puts our QB under pressure the entire game.

If play action can’t work or is that easy to defend it wouldn’t be a concept. Of course there are ways to attack it but good coaches figure out ways to use it to attack defenses rather than letting the defense dictate what they can or can’t do. If the defense brings pressure with a blitz then hit the TE with a pass, throw a screen to the RB. Every blitz leaves a vulnerable spot on the defense to attack. As Vikings fans too many have taken a defeatist attitude and spend too much time explaining why things won’t work rather than figuring out things that will work and I get that considering all the failed years but in the end play action is the one thing Kirk is good at. It is a concept that can be successful and his stats prove the team is more productive when they use it. So this isn’t to say you use it every time or have no other choices but it means you should look at using it more than you do.

[hategreenticemase]

The easiest way to fix things is to run a lot more play action. This is what Kirk excels at and where his strength lies. Teddy was a QB who was better out of the shotgun and Norv put him under center too much. Kirk is better under center and Kubiak puts him in shotgun too much. Put him under center, run play action plays, let him do what he does best more often and the offense will be better. If we get the guards moving laterally that’s will help them look better as well as they won’t get bull rushed and moved backwards.

The problem with running more play action is that these passing plays are very slow developing and defenses counter the play action with heavy run blitzing that they just convert into pressure on the quarterback. For example, the safety in the loss to Green Bay was a run blitz that continued to the quarterback. To stop the run defenses are aggresively blitzing their gaps. It is difficult to block them and they continue to the QB when they realize it is PA.

The other issue with play action is that its effectiveness is very game condition driven. When you are losing, you can play action all you want and the opponents defense is simply going to rush the quarterback. Our simplistic offense is predicated on having leads and winning the time of possession and field position battles.

As I have pointed out many times the thing they need to do, and which they have tried to do in the games they played better offensively like Seattle, is have a complete package of modern NFL plays.

They need 3 step drops, 5 step drops, and timing routes that are quick routes. Nothing frustrates a pass rush more than a 3 step drop to a quick slant. It makes blitzing more difficult because the quick passes means the blitz will not be able to pressure the QB and it removes a defender from being able to contain the run after catch. It also puts more pressure on the safeties in run support because if they press forward in run support it could pop a slant for long yardage.

They need to attack the middle of the field much more which forces the defense to put a safety over the top, moving that defender away from the LOS and being able to play run support. Almost everything the Vikings do in their pass schemes is directed to a receiver running to the sidelines or who has stopped their route. Irv Smith (and even Kyle Rudolph) down the seam should be a big weapon for the Vikings. We don't even run the route.

When you combine all of these elements it opens up all of the others and you can see how the Vikings offense fails. We let the defense play 8 and even 9 man fronts, and stubbornly run into them. When we do pass it is a slow motion and slow developing pass play which allows the defenders to attack the deep QB drop and blitz with impunity. Our scheme puts our QB under pressure the entire game.

If play action can’t work or is that easy to defend it wouldn’t be a concept. Of course there are ways to attack it but good coaches figure out ways to use it to attack defenses rather than letting the defense dictate what they can or can’t do. If the defense brings pressure with a blitz then hit the TE with a pass, throw a screen to the RB. Every blitz leaves a vulnerable spot on the defense to attack. As Vikings fans too many have taken a defeatist attitude and spend too much time explaining why things won’t work rather than figuring out things that will work and I get that considering all the failed years but in the end play action is the one thing Kirk is good at. It is a concept that can be successful and his stats prove the team is more productive when they use it. So this isn’t to say you use it every time or have no other choices but it means you should look at using it more than you do.

So, you read his detailed and excellent breakdown, then maybe read what I added - and you concluded that his/my point is play action is a bad concept or easy to defend? Huh? Its easy to defend vs THIS team. I love play action and pretty sure mlhouse does also, but he hates the routes and slow developing nature of them that we choose to use in PA.

Dude, this ain't rocket science. Our interior OL is horrid. Teams figured out mid season 19 just run blitz the shit out of us and it helps stop the run and damn sure destroys play action. Its not as simple as "hit the uncovered guy" when the qb is getting hit as he plants his foot. We could never make them pay and therefore never stopped other team from doing it.

What the hell games are you watching when your solution is "run more play action". We run play action all the time. If bet we are top 5 in how often we run PA.

[Herky]

You can’t fix it with Spielman and Zimmer there. The window they built is closed and the team is paying for it long term.

You have to blow it up and start at the top. Trade Rieff and Rudolph, and see if you can real Cousins in the off-season.

Spielman has a piss poor track record with QB’s and he shouldn’t get another shot at picking a new one. Ponder, Bradford, and Cousins. All Rick moves and all have hampered this team.

[PurpleFloyd]

The problem with running more play action is that these passing plays are very slow developing and defenses counter the play action with heavy run blitzing that they just convert into pressure on the quarterback. For example, the safety in the loss to Green Bay was a run blitz that continued to the quarterback. To stop the run defenses are aggresively blitzing their gaps. It is difficult to block them and they continue to the QB when they realize it is PA.

The other issue with play action is that its effectiveness is very game condition driven. When you are losing, you can play action all you want and the opponents defense is simply going to rush the quarterback. Our simplistic offense is predicated on having leads and winning the time of possession and field position battles.

As I have pointed out many times the thing they need to do, and which they have tried to do in the games they played better offensively like Seattle, is have a complete package of modern NFL plays.

They need 3 step drops, 5 step drops, and timing routes that are quick routes. Nothing frustrates a pass rush more than a 3 step drop to a quick slant. It makes blitzing more difficult because the quick passes means the blitz will not be able to pressure the QB and it removes a defender from being able to contain the run after catch. It also puts more pressure on the safeties in run support because if they press forward in run support it could pop a slant for long yardage.

They need to attack the middle of the field much more which forces the defense to put a safety over the top, moving that defender away from the LOS and being able to play run support. Almost everything the Vikings do in their pass schemes is directed to a receiver running to the sidelines or who has stopped their route. Irv Smith (and even Kyle Rudolph) down the seam should be a big weapon for the Vikings. We don't even run the route.

When you combine all of these elements it opens up all of the others and you can see how the Vikings offense fails. We let the defense play 8 and even 9 man fronts, and stubbornly run into them. When we do pass it is a slow motion and slow developing pass play which allows the defenders to attack the deep QB drop and blitz with impunity. Our scheme puts our QB under pressure the entire game.

If play action can’t work or is that easy to defend it wouldn’t be a concept. Of course there are ways to attack it but good coaches figure out ways to use it to attack defenses rather than letting the defense dictate what they can or can’t do. If the defense brings pressure with a blitz then hit the TE with a pass, throw a screen to the RB. Every blitz leaves a vulnerable spot on the defense to attack. As Vikings fans too many have taken a defeatist attitude and spend too much time explaining why things won’t work rather than figuring out things that will work and I get that considering all the failed years but in the end play action is the one thing Kirk is good at. It is a concept that can be successful and his stats prove the team is more productive when they use it. So this isn’t to say you use it every time or have no other choices but it means you should look at using it more than you do.

So, you read his detailed and excellent breakdown, then maybe read what I added - and you concluded that his/my point is play action is a bad concept or easy to defend? Huh? Its easy to defend vs THIS team. I love play action and pretty sure mlhouse does also, but he hates the routes and slow developing nature of them that we choose to use in PA.

Dude, this ain't rocket science. Our interior OL is horrid. Teams figured out mid season 19 just run blitz the shit out of us and it helps stop the run and damn sure destroys play action. Its not as simple as "hit the uncovered guy" when the qb is getting hit as he plants his foot. We could never make them pay and therefore never stopped other team from doing it.

What the hell games are you watching when your solution is "run more play action". We run play action all the time. If bet we are top 5 in how often we run PA.

Don’t start being a jackass. If you want to discuss football let’s do it. If you want a pissing match you don’t have the yardage.

This is only one week but if you want to go there I can certainly dredge more stats that will show I’m correct and you are pissing in the wind

The Vikings got away from play-action

Kirk Cousins had what was arguably the best season of his career in 2019, buoyed by a massive dose of play-action. More than 30% -- 31.3%, to be exact -- of Cousins' pass attempts came off play-action, which was the fourth-highest rate in the league. The Minnesota quarterback was a different passer with a play fake attached, as he averaged 9.6 yards per attempt and posted a passer rating of 130.1 after play-action. Without it, he fell back to earth, averaging 7.5 yards per attempt while delivering a passer rating of 97.0.

Analytics-friendly offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski left to become Browns coach over the offseason, leaving the playcalling job to longtime coach Gary Kubiak. Kubiak's offenses in multiple stops have always been built around heavy doses of outside zone and play-action stemming from that core run concept, so I didn't expect to see many schematic changes to the Minnesota offense in 2020.

Well, in Week 1 against the Packers, Cousins threw 25 passes. Just one of those passes -- a 37-yard touchdown to Adam Thielen in the fourth quarter -- incorporated play-action, which is a 4% play-action rate.

Now, it's fair to note that the Vikings trailed for most of this game, and 20 of Cousins' 25 pass attempts came in the second half. Last season, they mostly abandoned the play-action game once they got down by a significant margin; Cousins threw just four play-action passes while his team was down 10 or more points in the second half out of 68 total passes. You would figure that play-action passing would lose its effectiveness once there was little reason to run, but it doesn't; quarterbacks in those situations in 2019 posted a passer rating of 97.2 with play-action and just 82.4 without.

We'll get a better sense of Kubiak's plans in Week 2, given that the Vikings are likely to throw the ball more than five times in the first half in their game against the Colts. If Cousins' play-action rate was a one-season spike, though, expect his overall numbers to fall accordingly. And if you want another coach to pick on, just two of Jets quarterback Sam Darnold's 35 pass attempts in the Week 1 loss to the Bills incorporated play-action.

https://www.vikings.com/news/espn-analy ... st-offense

The Vikings were one of the most aggressive teams in the league with play-action a year ago, but their play-action rate is down from over 33 percent to closer to 26 percent. More problematic is what has happened on those play-action passes; while Cousins has hit big plays — including a 71-yard touchdown to Jefferson — off fakes, he has also thrown three picks on 46 play-action attempts. Cousins threw just one pick on 139 play-action attempts last season.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/10/21/gar ... usins/amp/

Throughout his entire tenure in the NFL, Cousins has proven over and over again that he is at his best when a play-action pass is called. However, new Minnesota offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak hasn’t been utilizing a play-action passing attack as much as he should be this season and it’s resulted in his quarterback trending in the wrong direction.

In 2019, Cousins had a 127.6 rating on play-action pass attempts, and this year, he has a 105.6 rating on these play-calls. On non-play-action passes, the Vikings quarterback saw his rating drop to 99.6 in 2019, and this season, it’s fallen all the way down to 82.0 on pass plays that don’t utilize play-action.

Cousins has also proven during his career to be a better passer when he takes the snap from under center as opposed to lining up in the shotgun formation. This has continued to be true this season as his rating on passes that start from under center is 109.9 compared to the 70.6 rating he has on his shotgun pass attempts.

It’s pretty cut-and-dry in regards to what works best for Cousins and what doesn’t. It’s up to Kubiak to make the necessary adjustments to his scheme to fit with what his quarterback does well. Cousins should not be the one making adjustments to his game, he’s too far along in his career to be doing that.

None of this is to say that the Minnesota quarterback hasn’t made some terrible decisions this season. But when he’s running an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, it’s going to lead to him making poor choices and forcing it to his top receivers even when they’re not open.

There.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

If play action can’t work or is that easy to defend it wouldn’t be a concept. Of course there are ways to attack it but good coaches figure out ways to use it to attack defenses rather than letting the defense dictate what they can or can’t do. If the defense brings pressure with a blitz then hit the TE with a pass, throw a screen to the RB. Every blitz leaves a vulnerable spot on the defense to attack. As Vikings fans too many have taken a defeatist attitude and spend too much time explaining why things won’t work rather than figuring out things that will work and I get that considering all the failed years but in the end play action is the one thing Kirk is good at. It is a concept that can be successful and his stats prove the team is more productive when they use it. So this isn’t to say you use it every time or have no other choices but it means you should look at using it more than you do.

So, you read his detailed and excellent breakdown, then maybe read what I added - and you concluded that his/my point is play action is a bad concept or easy to defend? Huh? Its easy to defend vs THIS team. I love play action and pretty sure mlhouse does also, but he hates the routes and slow developing nature of them that we choose to use in PA.

Dude, this ain't rocket science. Our interior OL is horrid. Teams figured out mid season 19 just run blitz the shit out of us and it helps stop the run and damn sure destroys play action. Its not as simple as "hit the uncovered guy" when the qb is getting hit as he plants his foot. We could never make them pay and therefore never stopped other team from doing it.

What the hell games are you watching when your solution is "run more play action". We run play action all the time. If bet we are top 5 in how often we run PA.

Don’t start being a jackass. If you want to discuss football let’s do it. If you want a pissing match you don’t have the yardage.

This is only one week but if you want to go there I can certainly dredge more stats that will show I’m correct and you are pissing in the wind

The Vikings got away from play-action

Kirk Cousins had what was arguably the best season of his career in 2019, buoyed by a massive dose of play-action. More than 30% -- 31.3%, to be exact -- of Cousins' pass attempts came off play-action, which was the fourth-highest rate in the league. The Minnesota quarterback was a different passer with a play fake attached, as he averaged 9.6 yards per attempt and posted a passer rating of 130.1 after play-action. Without it, he fell back to earth, averaging 7.5 yards per attempt while delivering a passer rating of 97.0.

Analytics-friendly offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski left to become Browns coach over the offseason, leaving the playcalling job to longtime coach Gary Kubiak. Kubiak's offenses in multiple stops have always been built around heavy doses of outside zone and play-action stemming from that core run concept, so I didn't expect to see many schematic changes to the Minnesota offense in 2020.

Well, in Week 1 against the Packers, Cousins threw 25 passes. Just one of those passes -- a 37-yard touchdown to Adam Thielen in the fourth quarter -- incorporated play-action, which is a 4% play-action rate.

Now, it's fair to note that the Vikings trailed for most of this game, and 20 of Cousins' 25 pass attempts came in the second half. Last season, they mostly abandoned the play-action game once they got down by a significant margin; Cousins threw just four play-action passes while his team was down 10 or more points in the second half out of 68 total passes. You would figure that play-action passing would lose its effectiveness once there was little reason to run, but it doesn't; quarterbacks in those situations in 2019 posted a passer rating of 97.2 with play-action and just 82.4 without.

We'll get a better sense of Kubiak's plans in Week 2, given that the Vikings are likely to throw the ball more than five times in the first half in their game against the Colts. If Cousins' play-action rate was a one-season spike, though, expect his overall numbers to fall accordingly. And if you want another coach to pick on, just two of Jets quarterback Sam Darnold's 35 pass attempts in the Week 1 loss to the Bills incorporated play-action.

https://www.vikings.com/news/espn-analy ... st-offense

The Vikings were one of the most aggressive teams in the league with play-action a year ago, but their play-action rate is down from over 33 percent to closer to 26 percent. More problematic is what has happened on those play-action passes; while Cousins has hit big plays — including a 71-yard touchdown to Jefferson — off fakes, he has also thrown three picks on 46 play-action attempts. Cousins threw just one pick on 139 play-action attempts last season.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/10/21/gar ... usins/amp/

Throughout his entire tenure in the NFL, Cousins has proven over and over again that he is at his best when a play-action pass is called. However, new Minnesota offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak hasn’t been utilizing a play-action passing attack as much as he should be this season and it’s resulted in his quarterback trending in the wrong direction.

In 2019, Cousins had a 127.6 rating on play-action pass attempts, and this year, he has a 105.6 rating on these play-calls. On non-play-action passes, the Vikings quarterback saw his rating drop to 99.6 in 2019, and this season, it’s fallen all the way down to 82.0 on pass plays that don’t utilize play-action.

Cousins has also proven during his career to be a better passer when he takes the snap from under center as opposed to lining up in the shotgun formation. This has continued to be true this season as his rating on passes that start from under center is 109.9 compared to the 70.6 rating he has on his shotgun pass attempts.

It’s pretty cut-and-dry in regards to what works best for Cousins and what doesn’t. It’s up to Kubiak to make the necessary adjustments to his scheme to fit with what his quarterback does well. Cousins should not be the one making adjustments to his game, he’s too far along in his career to be doing that.

None of this is to say that the Minnesota quarterback hasn’t made some terrible decisions this season. But when he’s running an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, it’s going to lead to him making poor choices and forcing it to his top receivers even when they’re not open.

There.

After 2 games...

It's been a rough two-game start for Kubiak the play-caller, as he's trying to get back into the swing of things after three seasons away from that role. He hasn't been particularly creative so far. He's cut the Vikings' usage of play-action roughly in half, which is a curious move given how much success Cousins had with that last year. He also hasn't used much tempo or nearly any motion at the snap, which has been shown to be a great tool for offenses. And Kubiak has mostly been unable to get the ball in the hands of exciting young pass-catchers Justin Jefferson and Irv Smith Jr., though that's not entirely his fault.

[hategreenticemase]

So, you read his detailed and excellent breakdown, then maybe read what I added - and you concluded that his/my point is play action is a bad concept or easy to defend? Huh? Its easy to defend vs THIS team. I love play action and pretty sure mlhouse does also, but he hates the routes and slow developing nature of them that we choose to use in PA.

Dude, this ain't rocket science. Our interior OL is horrid. Teams figured out mid season 19 just run blitz the shit out of us and it helps stop the run and damn sure destroys play action. Its not as simple as "hit the uncovered guy" when the qb is getting hit as he plants his foot. We could never make them pay and therefore never stopped other team from doing it.

What the hell games are you watching when your solution is "run more play action". We run play action all the time. If bet we are top 5 in how often we run PA.

Don’t start being a jackass. If you want to discuss football let’s do it. If you want a pissing match you don’t have the yardage.

This is only one week but if you want to go there I can certainly dredge more stats that will show I’m correct and you are pissing in the wind

The Vikings got away from play-action

Kirk Cousins had what was arguably the best season of his career in 2019, buoyed by a massive dose of play-action. More than 30% -- 31.3%, to be exact -- of Cousins' pass attempts came off play-action, which was the fourth-highest rate in the league. The Minnesota quarterback was a different passer with a play fake attached, as he averaged 9.6 yards per attempt and posted a passer rating of 130.1 after play-action. Without it, he fell back to earth, averaging 7.5 yards per attempt while delivering a passer rating of 97.0.

Analytics-friendly offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski left to become Browns coach over the offseason, leaving the playcalling job to longtime coach Gary Kubiak. Kubiak's offenses in multiple stops have always been built around heavy doses of outside zone and play-action stemming from that core run concept, so I didn't expect to see many schematic changes to the Minnesota offense in 2020.

Well, in Week 1 against the Packers, Cousins threw 25 passes. Just one of those passes -- a 37-yard touchdown to Adam Thielen in the fourth quarter -- incorporated play-action, which is a 4% play-action rate.

Now, it's fair to note that the Vikings trailed for most of this game, and 20 of Cousins' 25 pass attempts came in the second half. Last season, they mostly abandoned the play-action game once they got down by a significant margin; Cousins threw just four play-action passes while his team was down 10 or more points in the second half out of 68 total passes. You would figure that play-action passing would lose its effectiveness once there was little reason to run, but it doesn't; quarterbacks in those situations in 2019 posted a passer rating of 97.2 with play-action and just 82.4 without.

We'll get a better sense of Kubiak's plans in Week 2, given that the Vikings are likely to throw the ball more than five times in the first half in their game against the Colts. If Cousins' play-action rate was a one-season spike, though, expect his overall numbers to fall accordingly. And if you want another coach to pick on, just two of Jets quarterback Sam Darnold's 35 pass attempts in the Week 1 loss to the Bills incorporated play-action.

https://www.vikings.com/news/espn-analy ... st-offense

The Vikings were one of the most aggressive teams in the league with play-action a year ago, but their play-action rate is down from over 33 percent to closer to 26 percent. More problematic is what has happened on those play-action passes; while Cousins has hit big plays — including a 71-yard touchdown to Jefferson — off fakes, he has also thrown three picks on 46 play-action attempts. Cousins threw just one pick on 139 play-action attempts last season.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/10/21/gar ... usins/amp/

Throughout his entire tenure in the NFL, Cousins has proven over and over again that he is at his best when a play-action pass is called. However, new Minnesota offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak hasn’t been utilizing a play-action passing attack as much as he should be this season and it’s resulted in his quarterback trending in the wrong direction.

In 2019, Cousins had a 127.6 rating on play-action pass attempts, and this year, he has a 105.6 rating on these play-calls. On non-play-action passes, the Vikings quarterback saw his rating drop to 99.6 in 2019, and this season, it’s fallen all the way down to 82.0 on pass plays that don’t utilize play-action.

Cousins has also proven during his career to be a better passer when he takes the snap from under center as opposed to lining up in the shotgun formation. This has continued to be true this season as his rating on passes that start from under center is 109.9 compared to the 70.6 rating he has on his shotgun pass attempts.

It’s pretty cut-and-dry in regards to what works best for Cousins and what doesn’t. It’s up to Kubiak to make the necessary adjustments to his scheme to fit with what his quarterback does well. Cousins should not be the one making adjustments to his game, he’s too far along in his career to be doing that.

None of this is to say that the Minnesota quarterback hasn’t made some terrible decisions this season. But when he’s running an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, it’s going to lead to him making poor choices and forcing it to his top receivers even when they’re not open.

There.

After 2 games...

It's been a rough two-game start for Kubiak the play-caller, as he's trying to get back into the swing of things after three seasons away from that role. He hasn't been particularly creative so far. He's cut the Vikings' usage of play-action roughly in half, which is a curious move given how much success Cousins had with that last year. He also hasn't used much tempo or nearly any motion at the snap, which has been shown to be a great tool for offenses. And Kubiak has mostly been unable to get the ball in the hands of exciting young pass-catchers Justin Jefferson and Irv Smith Jr., though that's not entirely his fault.

So they didn't use much play action in the two games they got blown out to start the year? You are a treat, Corks.

[hategreenticemase]

If play action can’t work or is that easy to defend it wouldn’t be a concept. Of course there are ways to attack it but good coaches figure out ways to use it to attack defenses rather than letting the defense dictate what they can or can’t do. If the defense brings pressure with a blitz then hit the TE with a pass, throw a screen to the RB. Every blitz leaves a vulnerable spot on the defense to attack. As Vikings fans too many have taken a defeatist attitude and spend too much time explaining why things won’t work rather than figuring out things that will work and I get that considering all the failed years but in the end play action is the one thing Kirk is good at. It is a concept that can be successful and his stats prove the team is more productive when they use it. So this isn’t to say you use it every time or have no other choices but it means you should look at using it more than you do.

So, you read his detailed and excellent breakdown, then maybe read what I added - and you concluded that his/my point is play action is a bad concept or easy to defend? Huh? Its easy to defend vs THIS team. I love play action and pretty sure mlhouse does also, but he hates the routes and slow developing nature of them that we choose to use in PA.

Dude, this ain't rocket science. Our interior OL is horrid. Teams figured out mid season 19 just run blitz the shit out of us and it helps stop the run and damn sure destroys play action. Its not as simple as "hit the uncovered guy" when the qb is getting hit as he plants his foot. We could never make them pay and therefore never stopped other team from doing it.

What the hell games are you watching when your solution is "run more play action". We run play action all the time. If bet we are top 5 in how often we run PA.

Don’t start being a jackass. If you want to discuss football let’s do it. If you want a pissing match you don’t have the yardage.

This is only one week but if you want to go there I can certainly dredge more stats that will show I’m correct and you are pissing in the wind

The Vikings got away from play-action

Kirk Cousins had what was arguably the best season of his career in 2019, buoyed by a massive dose of play-action. More than 30% -- 31.3%, to be exact -- of Cousins' pass attempts came off play-action, which was the fourth-highest rate in the league. The Minnesota quarterback was a different passer with a play fake attached, as he averaged 9.6 yards per attempt and posted a passer rating of 130.1 after play-action. Without it, he fell back to earth, averaging 7.5 yards per attempt while delivering a passer rating of 97.0.

Analytics-friendly offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski left to become Browns coach over the offseason, leaving the playcalling job to longtime coach Gary Kubiak. Kubiak's offenses in multiple stops have always been built around heavy doses of outside zone and play-action stemming from that core run concept, so I didn't expect to see many schematic changes to the Minnesota offense in 2020.

Well, in Week 1 against the Packers, Cousins threw 25 passes. Just one of those passes -- a 37-yard touchdown to Adam Thielen in the fourth quarter -- incorporated play-action, which is a 4% play-action rate.

Now, it's fair to note that the Vikings trailed for most of this game, and 20 of Cousins' 25 pass attempts came in the second half. Last season, they mostly abandoned the play-action game once they got down by a significant margin; Cousins threw just four play-action passes while his team was down 10 or more points in the second half out of 68 total passes. You would figure that play-action passing would lose its effectiveness once there was little reason to run, but it doesn't; quarterbacks in those situations in 2019 posted a passer rating of 97.2 with play-action and just 82.4 without.

We'll get a better sense of Kubiak's plans in Week 2, given that the Vikings are likely to throw the ball more than five times in the first half in their game against the Colts. If Cousins' play-action rate was a one-season spike, though, expect his overall numbers to fall accordingly. And if you want another coach to pick on, just two of Jets quarterback Sam Darnold's 35 pass attempts in the Week 1 loss to the Bills incorporated play-action.

https://www.vikings.com/news/espn-analy ... st-offense

The Vikings were one of the most aggressive teams in the league with play-action a year ago, but their play-action rate is down from over 33 percent to closer to 26 percent. More problematic is what has happened on those play-action passes; while Cousins has hit big plays — including a 71-yard touchdown to Jefferson — off fakes, he has also thrown three picks on 46 play-action attempts. Cousins threw just one pick on 139 play-action attempts last season.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/10/21/gar ... usins/amp/

Throughout his entire tenure in the NFL, Cousins has proven over and over again that he is at his best when a play-action pass is called. However, new Minnesota offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak hasn’t been utilizing a play-action passing attack as much as he should be this season and it’s resulted in his quarterback trending in the wrong direction.

In 2019, Cousins had a 127.6 rating on play-action pass attempts, and this year, he has a 105.6 rating on these play-calls. On non-play-action passes, the Vikings quarterback saw his rating drop to 99.6 in 2019, and this season, it’s fallen all the way down to 82.0 on pass plays that don’t utilize play-action.

Cousins has also proven during his career to be a better passer when he takes the snap from under center as opposed to lining up in the shotgun formation. This has continued to be true this season as his rating on passes that start from under center is 109.9 compared to the 70.6 rating he has on his shotgun pass attempts.

It’s pretty cut-and-dry in regards to what works best for Cousins and what doesn’t. It’s up to Kubiak to make the necessary adjustments to his scheme to fit with what his quarterback does well. Cousins should not be the one making adjustments to his game, he’s too far along in his career to be doing that.

None of this is to say that the Minnesota quarterback hasn’t made some terrible decisions this season. But when he’s running an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, it’s going to lead to him making poor choices and forcing it to his top receivers even when they’re not open.

There.

I wasn't remotely being a jackass, chill the bleep out.

I already detailed everything in first post as did mlhouse in his. Kubiak sucked first 2 games, and atrocious overall team play exacerbated it. Main issue is two fold - the same issue we always have, terrible OL play and secondly Cousins has been a roller coaster.

I think mlhouse is right, tempo and pre snap motion would help and more 3 step drops definitely would, but the first 2 problems listed in first paragraph are the main issues.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

Don’t start being a jackass. If you want to discuss football let’s do it. If you want a pissing match you don’t have the yardage.

This is only one week but if you want to go there I can certainly dredge more stats that will show I’m correct and you are pissing in the wind



There.

After 2 games...

It's been a rough two-game start for Kubiak the play-caller, as he's trying to get back into the swing of things after three seasons away from that role. He hasn't been particularly creative so far. He's cut the Vikings' usage of play-action roughly in half, which is a curious move given how much success Cousins had with that last year. He also hasn't used much tempo or nearly any motion at the snap, which has been shown to be a great tool for offenses. And Kubiak has mostly been unable to get the ball in the hands of exciting young pass-catchers Justin Jefferson and Irv Smith Jr., though that's not entirely his fault.

So they didn't use much play action in the two games they got blown out to start the year? You are a treat, Corks.

Yeah, and if you follow along, all but our coaching staff is mystified as to why you would go away from what our QB is best at. Hence the blowouts. Are you defending an OC with that amount of experience essentially throwing the beginning of the year away like that? See if you can fathom why dipshit.

[Sid Hartman]

Live in Dallas and there are rumblings about Zimmer and Cowboys as Jerry has figured out McCarthy is a buffoon and in over his head

[hategreenticemase]

After 2 games...

It's been a rough two-game start for Kubiak the play-caller, as he's trying to get back into the swing of things after three seasons away from that role. He hasn't been particularly creative so far. He's cut the Vikings' usage of play-action roughly in half, which is a curious move given how much success Cousins had with that last year. He also hasn't used much tempo or nearly any motion at the snap, which has been shown to be a great tool for offenses. And Kubiak has mostly been unable to get the ball in the hands of exciting young pass-catchers Justin Jefferson and Irv Smith Jr., though that's not entirely his fault.

So they didn't use much play action in the two games they got blown out to start the year? You are a treat, Corks.

Yeah, and if you follow along, all but our coaching staff is mystified as to why you would go away from what our QB is best at. Hence the blowouts. Are you defending an OC with that amount of experience essentially throwing the beginning of the year away like that? See if you can fathom why dipshit.

Ripped Kubiak plenty, dummy. Called for him go this week also. And if you can't figure out why play action doesn't work when you are down multiple scores 70% plus of a game, then I can't help you. Your arch nemesis even understands that basic concept.

[hategreenticemase]

Live in Dallas and there are rumblings about Zimmer and Cowboys as Jerry has figured out McCarthy is a buffoon and in over his head

It would be the classic thing of all time if they traded for Zimmer.

Zim, Kubiak, Cousins, Ravens 3rd and Reiff for Dallas 2nd and Dak.

Then fire Spielman after he gets deal done.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

So they didn't use much play action in the two games they got blown out to start the year? You are a treat, Corks.

Yeah, and if you follow along, all but our coaching staff is mystified as to why you would go away from what our QB is best at. Hence the blowouts. Are you defending an OC with that amount of experience essentially throwing the beginning of the year away like that? See if you can fathom why dipshit.

Ripped Kubiak plenty, dummy. Called for him go this week also. And if you can't figure out why play action doesn't work when you are down multiple scores 70% plus of a game, then I can't help you. Your arch nemesis even understands that basic concept.

Yeah that tends to happen when your prehistoric head coach insists upon running into a brick wall over and over. And then his vaunted defense is embarrassing. But you knew that was the point you were missing, right?

[hategreenticemase]

Yeah, and if you follow along, all but our coaching staff is mystified as to why you would go away from what our QB is best at. Hence the blowouts. Are you defending an OC with that amount of experience essentially throwing the beginning of the year away like that? See if you can fathom why dipshit.

Ripped Kubiak plenty, dummy. Called for him go this week also. And if you can't figure out why play action doesn't work when you are down multiple scores 70% plus of a game, then I can't help you. Your arch nemesis even understands that basic concept.

Yeah that tends to happen when your prehistoric head coach insists upon running into a brick wall over and over. And then his vaunted defense is embarrassing. But you knew that was the point you were missing, right?

Fish in Cunningham's pond, nimrod, he will actually bite on your never ending changing the point, deflecting and wordsmithing. Homey don't play that.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

Ripped Kubiak plenty, dummy. Called for him go this week also. And if you can't figure out why play action doesn't work when you are down multiple scores 70% plus of a game, then I can't help you. Your arch nemesis even understands that basic concept.

Yeah that tends to happen when your prehistoric head coach insists upon running into a brick wall over and over. And then his vaunted defense is embarrassing. But you knew that was the point you were missing, right?

Fish in Cunningham's pond, nimrod, he will actually bite on your never ending changing the point, deflecting and wordsmithing. Homey don't play that.

The point is dummy, it doesn’t matter what players are good at, this coaching staff will run their own system regardless. And that includes about 4 offensive plays, 3 of which being variations of the same run play. Because the head coach wants his defense to look better. Off topic eh? Try debating someone more your level, like jorts ok?

[hategreenticemase]

Yeah that tends to happen when your prehistoric head coach insists upon running into a brick wall over and over. And then his vaunted defense is embarrassing. But you knew that was the point you were missing, right?

Fish in Cunningham's pond, nimrod, he will actually bite on your never ending changing the point, deflecting and wordsmithing. Homey don't play that.

The point is dummy, it doesn’t matter what players are good at, this coaching staff will run their own system regardless. And that includes about 4 offensive plays, 3 of which being variations of the same run play. Because the head coach wants his defense to look better. Off topic eh? Try debating someone more your level, like jorts ok?

[PurpleFloyd]

So, you read his detailed and excellent breakdown, then maybe read what I added - and you concluded that his/my point is play action is a bad concept or easy to defend? Huh? Its easy to defend vs THIS team. I love play action and pretty sure mlhouse does also, but he hates the routes and slow developing nature of them that we choose to use in PA.

Dude, this ain't rocket science. Our interior OL is horrid. Teams figured out mid season 19 just run blitz the shit out of us and it helps stop the run and damn sure destroys play action. Its not as simple as "hit the uncovered guy" when the qb is getting hit as he plants his foot. We could never make them pay and therefore never stopped other team from doing it.

What the hell games are you watching when your solution is "run more play action". We run play action all the time. If bet we are top 5 in how often we run PA.

Don’t start being a jackass. If you want to discuss football let’s do it. If you want a pissing match you don’t have the yardage.

This is only one week but if you want to go there I can certainly dredge more stats that will show I’m correct and you are pissing in the wind

The Vikings got away from play-action

Kirk Cousins had what was arguably the best season of his career in 2019, buoyed by a massive dose of play-action. More than 30% -- 31.3%, to be exact -- of Cousins' pass attempts came off play-action, which was the fourth-highest rate in the league. The Minnesota quarterback was a different passer with a play fake attached, as he averaged 9.6 yards per attempt and posted a passer rating of 130.1 after play-action. Without it, he fell back to earth, averaging 7.5 yards per attempt while delivering a passer rating of 97.0.

Analytics-friendly offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski left to become Browns coach over the offseason, leaving the playcalling job to longtime coach Gary Kubiak. Kubiak's offenses in multiple stops have always been built around heavy doses of outside zone and play-action stemming from that core run concept, so I didn't expect to see many schematic changes to the Minnesota offense in 2020.

Well, in Week 1 against the Packers, Cousins threw 25 passes. Just one of those passes -- a 37-yard touchdown to Adam Thielen in the fourth quarter -- incorporated play-action, which is a 4% play-action rate.

Now, it's fair to note that the Vikings trailed for most of this game, and 20 of Cousins' 25 pass attempts came in the second half. Last season, they mostly abandoned the play-action game once they got down by a significant margin; Cousins threw just four play-action passes while his team was down 10 or more points in the second half out of 68 total passes. You would figure that play-action passing would lose its effectiveness once there was little reason to run, but it doesn't; quarterbacks in those situations in 2019 posted a passer rating of 97.2 with play-action and just 82.4 without.

We'll get a better sense of Kubiak's plans in Week 2, given that the Vikings are likely to throw the ball more than five times in the first half in their game against the Colts. If Cousins' play-action rate was a one-season spike, though, expect his overall numbers to fall accordingly. And if you want another coach to pick on, just two of Jets quarterback Sam Darnold's 35 pass attempts in the Week 1 loss to the Bills incorporated play-action.

https://www.vikings.com/news/espn-analy ... st-offense

The Vikings were one of the most aggressive teams in the league with play-action a year ago, but their play-action rate is down from over 33 percent to closer to 26 percent. More problematic is what has happened on those play-action passes; while Cousins has hit big plays — including a 71-yard touchdown to Jefferson — off fakes, he has also thrown three picks on 46 play-action attempts. Cousins threw just one pick on 139 play-action attempts last season.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/10/21/gar ... usins/amp/

Throughout his entire tenure in the NFL, Cousins has proven over and over again that he is at his best when a play-action pass is called. However, new Minnesota offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak hasn’t been utilizing a play-action passing attack as much as he should be this season and it’s resulted in his quarterback trending in the wrong direction.

In 2019, Cousins had a 127.6 rating on play-action pass attempts, and this year, he has a 105.6 rating on these play-calls. On non-play-action passes, the Vikings quarterback saw his rating drop to 99.6 in 2019, and this season, it’s fallen all the way down to 82.0 on pass plays that don’t utilize play-action.

Cousins has also proven during his career to be a better passer when he takes the snap from under center as opposed to lining up in the shotgun formation. This has continued to be true this season as his rating on passes that start from under center is 109.9 compared to the 70.6 rating he has on his shotgun pass attempts.

It’s pretty cut-and-dry in regards to what works best for Cousins and what doesn’t. It’s up to Kubiak to make the necessary adjustments to his scheme to fit with what his quarterback does well. Cousins should not be the one making adjustments to his game, he’s too far along in his career to be doing that.

None of this is to say that the Minnesota quarterback hasn’t made some terrible decisions this season. But when he’s running an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, it’s going to lead to him making poor choices and forcing it to his top receivers even when they’re not open.

There.

I wasn't remotely being a jackass, chill the bleep out.

I already detailed everything in first post as did mlhouse in his. Kubiak sucked first 2 games, and atrocious overall team play exacerbated it. Main issue is two fold - the same issue we always have, terrible OL play and secondly Cousins has been a roller coaster.

I think mlhouse is right, tempo and pre snap motion would help and more 3 step drops definitely would, but the first 2 problems listed in first paragraph are the main issues.

Play action and getting the line moving laterally can help take the pressure off the line. Defenses can key in on our line because the HC is as Persia’s can be and he isn’t creative enough to come up with formations and packages that can attack weak spots in a defense or that can highlight the talent of our offensive personnel.

Kirk is at his best when he is moving around. It’s an established, proven fact. Knowing that only a complete dumbass would put together a game plan that actually used less of that and put the player in a position he is proven to be less effective in. And for a rube to rationalize that. Well.

[Ash Ketchum]

This. They all need to go.

This times 3. No brainer, and RS should be the first one to go, period.

Mlhouse, I like most of your thoughts above but it is beyond ludicrous to suggest RS should stay. Laughable, really.

Again, the Vikings have the 12th best record over the past decade in the NFL. That is a more than substantial achievement, particularly when the top 5 teams all had Hall of Fame quarterbacks that almost never were injured. Claining this is meaningless is idiotic.

In this span, the Vikings have had significant injury problems at the QB position that has really cost them a lot of value. That is a critical variable outside the GMs control. If Bridgewater does not blow out his knee, then they can build other positions in the draft around him.

Some specific issues: Mike Hughes. Anyone who claims to be a "Best Player Available" drafter should shut their mouths because that is what this pick was. I also believe it was heavily influenced by the head coach. Hughes' career is probably done because of a serious neck injury and he blew out his ACL his rookie year that probably hindered his development significantly.

Garrett Bradbury: this is an example of not everyone is perfect. I criticized this pick when it was made, presented an alternative scenario that would have been significantly better, and stated this was a mistake by Spielman. Not everything Rick does has been correct.

I would not be adverse to Spielman leaving, but the fact is he has built talent up and down the roster over more than a decade. It would also be refreshing if the criticism of Spielman was actually based on reality, not some Rube's anger because Rick upset their NFL draft viewing by trading down.

[cunningham]

While I still think Spielman and Zim can identify talent on defense and arguably WR.

Spielman simply has no imagination or eye for identifying good O line talent and most importantly QB.

Ponder, Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins. Those are the guys he has chosen to lead the Vikes to a Super Bowl win. It hasn’t worked. Time to move on. The extending of Cousins was the final nail in the coffin for me.

Healthy Bradford in 2017 would have been interesting... the way he started against New Orleans that year was so impressive. He had a great arm and great accuracy... not mobile at all compared to the rest of those guys and Keenum but he could get the ball out quick.


Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum

I’m sorry, but I disagree. This one game, against the Saints ironically, should not define Bradford. Just like the one game TJackson had against the Cards should not define him back then. Just like the Saints game overtime win should not have defined Cousins and got him an extension.

All of the quarterbacks I listed were seriously flawed and NEVER would quarterback a Super Bowl win. They all got lucky in one stinking game and some fans have used that game for years to define their play.

Stop. Now show highlights from the Chicago game where Bradford was healthy, Keenum was benched for him, and he turned into a pumpkin. The playoff game with TJackson a few weeks later where he was cremated. The 9ers playoff game where Cousins could do nothing.

Our minds tend to remember the best of times. It is why Rick Spielman still has a job despite being behind all of these smoke and mirror sales tactics with these shitty quarterbacks.

[cunningham]

This times 3. No brainer, and RS should be the first one to go, period.

Mlhouse, I like most of your thoughts above but it is beyond ludicrous to suggest RS should stay. Laughable, really.

Again, the Vikings have the 12th best record over the past decade in the NFL. That is a more than substantial achievement, particularly when the top 5 teams all had Hall of Fame quarterbacks that almost never were injured. Claining this is meaningless is idiotic.

In this span, the Vikings have had significant injury problems at the QB position that has really cost them a lot of value. That is a critical variable outside the GMs control. If Bridgewater does not blow out his knee, then they can build other positions in the draft around him.

Some specific issues: Mike Hughes. Anyone who claims to be a "Best Player Available" drafter should shut their mouths because that is what this pick was. I also believe it was heavily influenced by the head coach. Hughes' career is probably done because of a serious neck injury and he blew out his ACL his rookie year that probably hindered his development significantly.

Garrett Bradbury: this is an example of not everyone is perfect. I criticized this pick when it was made, presented an alternative scenario that would have been significantly better, and stated this was a mistake by Spielman. Not everything Rick does has been correct.

I would not be adverse to Spielman leaving, but the fact is he has built talent up and down the roster over more than a decade. It would also be refreshing if the criticism of Spielman was actually based on reality, not some Rube's anger because Rick upset their NFL draft viewing by trading down.

I swear you two are Rick Spielman. Just cannot help yourselves from drinking his kool-aid.

A good GM doesn’t let a few injuries tank their whole team to where we are today. Who the hell takes a center in round 1? Teddy was’t Aaron Rodgers and we were not coming off a Super Bowl season the one before. There was no reason to panic. Keep the first round pick and take anew quarterback. Just like the attitude we were always having to win right now for AP. That was Rick’s BS back then too.

The urgency of Rick is what has damaged this team beyond repair.

It is done and time for a total rebuild. Rick was decent to get us to the lofty spot of 12th best for wins, but that you and Ash see this as an accomplishment shows how forgiving you both are of his mediocrity.

You even note the top 5 teams had great quarterbacks, but you ignore that RS has never drafted one or built a team around one. He brought in #12 ranked quarterbacks and we got #12 ranked win levels.

Just stop defending his drafts and time here as GM. It is embarrassing at this point.

[cunningham]

Ripped Kubiak plenty, dummy. Called for him go this week also. And if you can't figure out why play action doesn't work when you are down multiple scores 70% plus of a game, then I can't help you. Your arch nemesis even understands that basic concept.

Yeah that tends to happen when your prehistoric head coach insists upon running into a brick wall over and over. And then his vaunted defense is embarrassing. But you knew that was the point you were missing, right?

Fish in Cunningham's pond, nimrod, he will actually bite on your never ending changing the point, deflecting and wordsmithing. Homey don't play that.

I’m the big fish in my pond. No room for trolls and homers in here! Only Rick Spielman and Kirk Cousin haters can swim with me. Once you have sipped the cold, cherry picking stats flavor of RS Kirk Cousins’ Vikings Kool Aid you cannot be reasoned with.

[hategreenticemase]

Yeah that tends to happen when your prehistoric head coach insists upon running into a brick wall over and over. And then his vaunted defense is embarrassing. But you knew that was the point you were missing, right?

Fish in Cunningham's pond, nimrod, he will actually bite on your never ending changing the point, deflecting and wordsmithing. Homey don't play that.

I’m the big fish in my pond. No room for trolls and homers in here! Only Rick Spielman and Kirk Cousin haters can swim with me. Once you have sipped the cold, cherry picking stats flavor of RS Kirk Cousins’ Vikings Kool Aid you cannot be reasoned with.

I gotta be honest, this may he your best work to date. Well done.

You can't make up Ol Corkie - 8 out 10 of his posts are to you. If you ever left here it would open up another hour or two per day of cooking.

[cunningham]

Fish in Cunningham's pond, nimrod, he will actually bite on your never ending changing the point, deflecting and wordsmithing. Homey don't play that.

I’m the big fish in my pond. No room for trolls and homers in here! Only Rick Spielman and Kirk Cousin haters can swim with me. Once you have sipped the cold, cherry picking stats flavor of RS Kirk Cousins’ Vikings Kool Aid you cannot be reasoned with.

I gotta be honest, this may he your best work to date. Well done.

You can't make up Ol Corkie - 8 out 10 of his posts are to you. If you ever left here it would open up another hour or two per day of cooking.

This place is mental crack for writers. Anonymous ranting is a hoot.

The many characters he has created have haunted me going way, way back. I think he broke Jab. Granted his power here isn’t the same, but I just can’t help myself from responding. The guy is kind of a legend as far as trolling goes.

If anyone wanted to be a legend for that. Kind of like a guy walking around bragging that he was the actor who spooged on Jodi Foster in the prison scene in Silence of the Lambs.

[Phrooster]

Short term fix play old school The Psycho Ball need 2 road graders at guard and a FB that can run

[hategreenticemase]

I’m the big fish in my pond. No room for trolls and homers in here! Only Rick Spielman and Kirk Cousin haters can swim with me. Once you have sipped the cold, cherry picking stats flavor of RS Kirk Cousins’ Vikings Kool Aid you cannot be reasoned with.

I gotta be honest, this may he your best work to date. Well done.

You can't make up Ol Corkie - 8 out 10 of his posts are to you. If you ever left here it would open up another hour or two per day of cooking.

This place is mental crack for writers. Anonymous ranting is a hoot.

The many characters he has created have haunted me going way, way back. I think he broke Jab. Granted his power here isn’t the same, but I just can’t help myself from responding. The guy is kind of a legend as far as trolling goes.

If anyone wanted to be a legend for that. Kind of like a guy walking around bragging that he was the actor who spooged on Jodi Foster in the prison scene in Silence of the Lambs.

[HeHateMe]

While I still think Spielman and Zim can identify talent on defense and arguably WR.

Spielman simply has no imagination or eye for identifying good O line talent and most importantly QB.

Ponder, Bradford, Bridgewater, Cousins. Those are the guys he has chosen to lead the Vikes to a Super Bowl win. It hasn’t worked. Time to move on. The extending of Cousins was the final nail in the coffin for me.

Healthy Bradford in 2017 would have been interesting... the way he started against New Orleans that year was so impressive. He had a great arm and great accuracy... not mobile at all compared to the rest of those guys and Keenum but he could get the ball out quick.


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I’m sorry, but I disagree. This one game, against the Saints ironically, should not define Bradford. Just like the one game TJackson had against the Cards should not define him back then. Just like the Saints game overtime win should not have defined Cousins and got him an extension.

All of the quarterbacks I listed were seriously flawed and NEVER would quarterback a Super Bowl win. They all got lucky in one stinking game and some fans have used that game for years to define their play.

Stop. Now show highlights from the Chicago game where Bradford was healthy, Keenum was benched for him, and he turned into a pumpkin. The playoff game with TJackson a few weeks later where he was cremated. The 9ers playoff game where Cousins could do nothing.

Our minds tend to remember the best of times. It is why Rick Spielman still has a job despite being behind all of these smoke and mirror sales tactics with these shitty quarterbacks.

Wow... I just showed a game where he was in year 2 with the organization... and he had some really good games the first year. You're closed minded.. that's OK. And Bradford wasn't healthy in Chicago, my god. Come on.