Souhan: Vikes should sign Kaepernick

[Night Train]

Is he nuts? Souhan thinks the Vikings should sign Kaepernick as a show of goodwill. Did the Vikings put their knee on Floyd's neck and I missed it?

A strong statement is needed, and the Vikings signing Colin Kaepernick would do it
Signing Colin Kaepernick would signal the Vikings care about social justice, and that the NFL acknowledges its wrongful blackballing of a talented quarterback. It would also make football sense.

The silent protest of injustice of Colin Kaepernick (middle, kneeling during a 49ers game in 2016 between Eli Harold and Eric Reid) made too many waves for the NFL. The quarterback is out of the league, but the injustice he decried continues.

This weekend, five days after a cop knelt on George Floyd’s neck in bright daylight on a Minneapolis street, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell issued a statement.

Either he took five days to toss a meaningless word salad, or he belatedly realized that he was among the last sports leaders to have failed to acknowledge the killing, and on Saturday quickly tossed a meaningless word salad.

I could reprint Goodell’s statement here, but it might be easier for you to just Google “Generic press release template.”

Ignore Goodell. He facilitated the blackballing of Colin Kaepernick, who was peacefully protesting killings just like that of George Floyd, and he has failed to persuade NFL owners to hire a reasonable number of black coaches and general managers in a sport filled with high-achieving black men. He possesses the same credibility as a new Twitter user with zero followers and a Russian handle.

Instead, today, read the piece written by Joe Lockhart for CNN.com. Lockhart worked as an NFL executive. He also worked in the White House.

Lockhart’s essay exposes all that Goodell and NFL owners have tried to obscure — that Kaepernick remained unsigned because NFL teams didn’t want to anger portions of their fan base or bring unwanted media attention to their locker rooms.

Lockhart writes that he thought the NFL did good work in trying to encourage discussions about race and protest, and that Goodell at least had good intentions. “Though Kaepernick didn’t get his job back, I thought we had done a righteous job, considering.”

If that was the culmination of Lockhart’s piece, he would have exposed himself as exactly the kind of self-congratulatory and cloistered NFL figure who has kept the league’s worldview rooted firmly in the 1950s.

But he had more to say.

“I was wrong,” he wrote. “I think the teams were wrong for not signing him. Watching what’s going on in Minnesota, I understand how badly wrong we were.”

Lockhart concludes the Vikings could do the world and the league a lot of good by signing Kaepernick.

He’s right. Signing Kaepernick would signal that the Vikings care about social justice, and that the NFL acknowledges its wrongful blackballing of a talented player.

Signing Kaepernick would also make football sense.

He is 32, healthy and remains in remarkable shape. The Vikings’ current backup is Sean Mannion, the kind of extra quarterback that nobody wants to see take the field.

Kaepernick would give the Vikings a chance to win if Kirk Cousins gets injured, and he’s young enough that he might become the franchise’s quarterback of the future.

The best aspect of signing Kaepernick would be that he could become a familiar presence in Minnesota and in national media.

Plenty of Minnesota sports figures have taken the same stance as Kaeper-nick. Lynx players wore shirts emblazoned with “Black Lives Matter” after the killing of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling.

Gophers women’s basketball coach Lindsay Whalen is a vocal supporter of social justice and stood with her black Lynx teammates at that time. Lynx coach Cheryl Reeve champions equality for all.

Former Twins star Torii Hunter spoke last week about being profiled, and former NBA player Stephen Jackson spoke eloquently in Minneapolis on Friday about racism and police killing unarmed black men.

Timberwolves players have tried to raise awareness about racism and have openly mourned Floyd’s killing. Wolves GM Gersson Rosas and coach Ryan Saunders have spoken in support of their black players.

None of these Minnesota sports figures have been treated locally the way Kaepernick was treated nationally, because we know them, and we listen to them. We know they are good people. Even racists have trouble getting mad at Maya Moore or Karl-Anthony Towns.

They have not been reduced to symbols and talking points. In Minnesota, Kaepernick could become a powerful and familiar force for good. He might win a few football games, too.

[Skolbro]

Andy(purple FTW) did a good video on this yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd5U-0Gv2M8

[Oriole81]

If Cousins does get hurt, I'd rather they just tank and get a QB of the future in next year's draft.

Kaep is better than Mannion obviously, but not much better at this point considering he's been out of football for years and is not in football shape by any means. If he gets you one or two extra wins vs Mannion, that really doesn't do anything for the long term success of the team though, as it just makes it that much harder to get our guy.

Pass.

[Beef Supreme]

I think that would be too obviously transparent. And I’m not sure Colin would do it.



What they should have done was sign him as soon as he lost his job in SF. Like he isn’t better than the backups we’ve had the last four years...

[Oriole81]

I think that would be too obviously transparent. And I’m not sure Colin would do it.



What they should have done was sign him as soon as he lost his job in SF. Like he isn’t better than the backups we’ve had the last four years...

the problem is he isn't realistic on price.
he demanded $20M to play in the frickin XFL.

if you want to be a backup QB w/ chance to win a starting job, there's opportunities out there but you have to be self aware and realistic on price/terms in order to get an offer. that's the same thing that would be told to any similar rated fringe QB.

You can't ask for starter level salary and then complain that nobody wants you.

[Beef Supreme]

I think that would be too obviously transparent. And I’m not sure Colin would do it.



What they should have done was sign him as soon as he lost his job in SF. Like he isn’t better than the backups we’ve had the last four years...

the problem is he isn't realistic on price.
he demanded $20M to play in the frickin XFL.

if you want to be a backup QB w/ chance to win a starting job, there's opportunities out there but you have to be self aware and realistic on price/terms in order to get an offer. that's the same thing that would be told to any similar rated fringe QB.

You can't ask for starter level salary and then complain that nobody wants you.

Sure. If he’s still on that, it’s a non-starter for the vikes anyway.



But he was totally blackballed. Since his last season in 1016, there has never been a time where there were 32 better quarterbacks than him playing in the nfl. I get why he wants starter money.

[mlhouse]

Doesnt play the system. Isn't that good to begin with. Too costly. Not worth the fucking problems.

Pretty easy decision for every NFL team to pass. Maybe if you time travel back a couple of years for him he could be a backup to Lamar Jackson.

Further, tokens are not what is required nor is a thug like Kaepernick a guy who helps bring people together. He is divisive.

If you want change, you have to vote for change. Minneapolis has been run by the same party for generations. It will never change.

[CasualObserverGuy]

Why would he agree to play here? I bet he would take the offer, reject it, and use the opportunity to embarrass the city publicly...

Then more $$ for endorsements and speaking fees, and no injuries to worry about, or needing to be in a city with such a Police Department.

[Thrillkill]

Simply from a football standpoint they should have for 2 years.

[Oriole81]

I think that would be too obviously transparent. And I’m not sure Colin would do it.



What they should have done was sign him as soon as he lost his job in SF. Like he isn’t better than the backups we’ve had the last four years...

the problem is he isn't realistic on price.
he demanded $20M to play in the frickin XFL.

if you want to be a backup QB w/ chance to win a starting job, there's opportunities out there but you have to be self aware and realistic on price/terms in order to get an offer. that's the same thing that would be told to any similar rated fringe QB.

You can't ask for starter level salary and then complain that nobody wants you.

Sure. If he’s still on that, it’s a non-starter for the vikes anyway.



But he was totally blackballed. Since his last season in 1016, there has never been a time where there were 32 better quarterbacks than him playing in the nfl. I get why he wants starter money.

He was offered $7M by Denver in 2016, which would have tied him for 22nd on the list of QB salaries, but he rejected that.
That would have tied him by the way with Bradford and Fitzpatrick, who are probably better than him.
He instead chose to sit out the whole year.

In 2017 Baltimore was then prepared to sign him until his girlfriend made that horrible message about Bisciotti being a slave owner, so no wonder that nobody brought him in after.

I don't think its "blackballing" per se, just that 32 individual owners deciding that he's not worth the headache, which is their right. It doesn't matter that Kaep is better than guys like Sean Mannion or David Blough because that's not what personnel decisions are always made about.

[Oriole81]

the problem is he isn't realistic on price.
he demanded $20M to play in the frickin XFL.

if you want to be a backup QB w/ chance to win a starting job, there's opportunities out there but you have to be self aware and realistic on price/terms in order to get an offer. that's the same thing that would be told to any similar rated fringe QB.

You can't ask for starter level salary and then complain that nobody wants you.

Sure. If he’s still on that, it’s a non-starter for the vikes anyway.



But he was totally blackballed. Since his last season in 1016, there has never been a time where there were 32 better quarterbacks than him playing in the nfl. I get why he wants starter money.

He was offered $7M by Denver in 2016, which would have tied him for 22nd on the list of QB salaries, but he rejected that.
That would have tied him by the way with Bradford and Fitzpatrick, who are probably better than him.
He instead chose to sit out the whole year.

In 2017 Baltimore was then prepared to sign him until his girlfriend made that horrible message about Bisciotti being a slave owner, so no wonder that nobody brought him in after.

I don't think its "blackballing" per se, just that 32 individual owners deciding that he's not worth the headache, which is their right. It doesn't matter that Kaep is better than guys like Sean Mannion or David Blough because that's not what personnel decisions are always made about.

I also checked out the current NFL QB salaries, and #32 right now is only making $5.5M.
The #50 QB makes $2M.

So he's not being lowballed if people were to say he should come in for a few million and incentives if he wins the job and produces.

[RubeTube]

Get this brother in here and let him compete.

Doesn't take much to turn around and hand the rock off and throw 2 yards short of the sticks in the Zimstone offense.

[Da Gas Man]

So many reasons why this doesn't make sense but at the same time, if I were a sports columnist, I would write a similar article. It's a good talker and that is what a writer wants.

[Beef Supreme]

So many reasons why this doesn't make sense but at the same time, if I were a sports columnist, I would write a similar article. It's a good talker and that is what a writer wants.

His shots at goodell and the nfl land square, but his take that Kaepernick is young enough to be our QB of the future is off. Cousins is a year younger than Kaepernick.

[Da Gas Man]

So many reasons why this doesn't make sense but at the same time, if I were a sports columnist, I would write a similar article. It's a good talker and that is what a writer wants.

His shots at goodell and the nfl land square, but his take that Kaepernick is young enough to be our QB of the future is off. Cousins is a year younger than Kaepernick.

And many other reasons:

1. Far too expensive for a backup
2. This team needs to be extra cheap with the backup due to salary cap
3. It would be seen as a token move
4. He hasn't played in a while
etc. etc.

[Beef Supreme]

Sure. If he’s still on that, it’s a non-starter for the vikes anyway.



But he was totally blackballed. Since his last season in 1016, there has never been a time where there were 32 better quarterbacks than him playing in the nfl. I get why he wants starter money.

He was offered $7M by Denver in 2016, which would have tied him for 22nd on the list of QB salaries, but he rejected that.
That would have tied him by the way with Bradford and Fitzpatrick, who are probably better than him.
He instead chose to sit out the whole year.

In 2017 Baltimore was then prepared to sign him until his girlfriend made that horrible message about Bisciotti being a slave owner, so no wonder that nobody brought him in after.

I don't think its "blackballing" per se, just that 32 individual owners deciding that he's not worth the headache, which is their right. It doesn't matter that Kaep is better than guys like Sean Mannion or David Blough because that's not what personnel decisions are always made about.

I also checked out the current NFL QB salaries, and #32 right now is only making $5.5M.
The #50 QB makes $2M.

So he's not being lowballed if people were to say he should come in for a few million and incentives if he wins the job and produces.

I don’t buy that 32 teams all decided he wasn’t worth it purely on football alone. He was 28 at the time, had taken a team to the super bowl, and was one of the most dynamic run-pass threats in the game.

The Jets started 38 year-old Josh McCown that year.

The Browns rolled with DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler.

The Giants rolled out the bones of Eli Manning with Geno Smith and Shane Vereen.


None of these teams would have been better with Kaepernick?

[Da Gas Man]

He was offered $7M by Denver in 2016, which would have tied him for 22nd on the list of QB salaries, but he rejected that.
That would have tied him by the way with Bradford and Fitzpatrick, who are probably better than him.
He instead chose to sit out the whole year.

In 2017 Baltimore was then prepared to sign him until his girlfriend made that horrible message about Bisciotti being a slave owner, so no wonder that nobody brought him in after.

I don't think its "blackballing" per se, just that 32 individual owners deciding that he's not worth the headache, which is their right. It doesn't matter that Kaep is better than guys like Sean Mannion or David Blough because that's not what personnel decisions are always made about.

I also checked out the current NFL QB salaries, and #32 right now is only making $5.5M.
The #50 QB makes $2M.

So he's not being lowballed if people were to say he should come in for a few million and incentives if he wins the job and produces.

I don’t buy that 32 teams all decided he wasn’t worth it purely on football alone. He was 28 at the time, had taken a team to the super bowl, and was one of the most dynamic run-pass threats in the game.

The Jets started 38 year-old Josh McCown that year.

The Browns rolled with DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler.

The Giants rolled out the bones of Eli Manning with Geno Smith and Shane Vereen.


None of these teams would have been better with Kaepernick?

I don't think he was blackballed. There is no doubt that he was better than a lot of QBs who got shots. Still, it wasn't a football decision. It was a purely financial one. We can talk about whether a team should have stood up for ethical reasons but that is another discussion. I think every GM saw the financial cost and distraction of Kap and decided that he wasn't good enough to be worth the hit. They didn't necessarily need to collude on that. They each came to the same business decision.

I personally agree with them that from a purely financial situation, Kap's benefit did not exceed his cost. If Aaron Rodgers would have knelt 6 years ago, he would have still been retained and paid highly because his play exceeded the cost from a purely financial perspective.

I'm not saying that this is right. I am saying that if the bottom line is the only concern, then it's a reasonable decision. (I agree with Peter King that when the NFL claims to be about social change, it is rubbish. They mean that they care about social change as long as it doesn't interfere with the bottom line.)

[Beef Supreme]

I also checked out the current NFL QB salaries, and #32 right now is only making $5.5M.
The #50 QB makes $2M.

So he's not being lowballed if people were to say he should come in for a few million and incentives if he wins the job and produces.

I don’t buy that 32 teams all decided he wasn’t worth it purely on football alone. He was 28 at the time, had taken a team to the super bowl, and was one of the most dynamic run-pass threats in the game.

The Jets started 38 year-old Josh McCown that year.

The Browns rolled with DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler.

The Giants rolled out the bones of Eli Manning with Geno Smith and Shane Vereen.


None of these teams would have been better with Kaepernick?

I don't think he was blackballed. There is no doubt that he was better than a lot of QBs who got shots. Still, it wasn't a football decision. It was a purely financial one. We can talk about whether a team should have stood up for ethical reasons but that is another discussion. I think every GM saw the financial cost and distraction of Kap and decided that he wasn't good enough to be worth the hit. They didn't necessarily need to collude on that. They each came to the same business decision.

I personally agree with them that from a purely financial situation, Kap's benefit did not exceed his cost. If Aaron Rodgers would have knelt 6 years ago, he would have still been retained and paid highly because his play exceeded the cost from a purely financial perspective.

I'm not saying that this is right. I am saying that if the bottom line is the only concern, then it's a reasonable decision. (I agree with Peter King that when the NFL claims to be about social change, it is rubbish. They mean that they care about social change as long as it doesn't interfere with the bottom line.)

How many teams made him offers? How many teams brought him in?

I understand the financials can play a role, but that’s why you try to strike a deal. You make him an offer and if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t sign.

That didn’t happen, did it?

[Oriole81]

He was offered $7M by Denver in 2016, which would have tied him for 22nd on the list of QB salaries, but he rejected that.
That would have tied him by the way with Bradford and Fitzpatrick, who are probably better than him.
He instead chose to sit out the whole year.

In 2017 Baltimore was then prepared to sign him until his girlfriend made that horrible message about Bisciotti being a slave owner, so no wonder that nobody brought him in after.

I don't think its "blackballing" per se, just that 32 individual owners deciding that he's not worth the headache, which is their right. It doesn't matter that Kaep is better than guys like Sean Mannion or David Blough because that's not what personnel decisions are always made about.

I also checked out the current NFL QB salaries, and #32 right now is only making $5.5M.
The #50 QB makes $2M.

So he's not being lowballed if people were to say he should come in for a few million and incentives if he wins the job and produces.

I don’t buy that 32 teams all decided he wasn’t worth it purely on football alone. He was 28 at the time, had taken a team to the super bowl, and was one of the most dynamic run-pass threats in the game.

The Jets started 38 year-old Josh McCown that year.

The Browns rolled with DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler.

The Giants rolled out the bones of Eli Manning with Geno Smith and Shane Vereen.


None of these teams would have been better with Kaepernick?

First off, he wasn't those things you say he was above anymore. The league figured him out and he wasn't able to adapt, and was one of the worst starting QBs in the league that last year in SF...plus he's coming off a shoulder injury. I'll give him credit for what he accomplished early on, but he didn't raise his game up once teams figured him out so what happened previously isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

But I did specifically say above that personnel decisions are not always made based on football decisions, but that doesn't mean a crime was committed. It's debatable that he was better than Manning or McCown, but sure he's better than the rest in a vacuum, but there's so many other things you ask for out of your backup QB than just being good at football.

I also said in an above response that if Cousins were to actually get hurt, I'd rather Mannion just helps us bottom out so that we can draft a franchise QB vs having Kaep maybe get us an extra win or two. So "better" is certainly relative. Plenty of teams would rather just bottom out in this case, so there's no benefit in having a slightly better backup QB, espcially when it comes with baggage.

The backup QB position in the NFL is weird, that's why it's necessarily "collusion" just because he's out of the league and is better than many backups.

[Oriole81]

I don’t buy that 32 teams all decided he wasn’t worth it purely on football alone. He was 28 at the time, had taken a team to the super bowl, and was one of the most dynamic run-pass threats in the game.

The Jets started 38 year-old Josh McCown that year.

The Browns rolled with DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler.

The Giants rolled out the bones of Eli Manning with Geno Smith and Shane Vereen.


None of these teams would have been better with Kaepernick?

I don't think he was blackballed. There is no doubt that he was better than a lot of QBs who got shots. Still, it wasn't a football decision. It was a purely financial one. We can talk about whether a team should have stood up for ethical reasons but that is another discussion. I think every GM saw the financial cost and distraction of Kap and decided that he wasn't good enough to be worth the hit. They didn't necessarily need to collude on that. They each came to the same business decision.

I personally agree with them that from a purely financial situation, Kap's benefit did not exceed his cost. If Aaron Rodgers would have knelt 6 years ago, he would have still been retained and paid highly because his play exceeded the cost from a purely financial perspective.

I'm not saying that this is right. I am saying that if the bottom line is the only concern, then it's a reasonable decision. (I agree with Peter King that when the NFL claims to be about social change, it is rubbish. They mean that they care about social change as long as it doesn't interfere with the bottom line.)

How many teams made him offers? How many teams brought him in?

I understand the financials can play a role, but that’s why you try to strike a deal. You make him an offer and if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t sign.

That didn’t happen, did it?

You can understand why an owner wouldn't want to bring someone in who's celebrity girlfriend referred to another owner, who also happens to be one of the most respected owners, as a slave owner, right?
If you're a business owner, you have to realize that's not someone you want in your organization.

[RubeTube]

I also checked out the current NFL QB salaries, and #32 right now is only making $5.5M.
The #50 QB makes $2M.

So he's not being lowballed if people were to say he should come in for a few million and incentives if he wins the job and produces.

I don’t buy that 32 teams all decided he wasn’t worth it purely on football alone. He was 28 at the time, had taken a team to the super bowl, and was one of the most dynamic run-pass threats in the game.

The Jets started 38 year-old Josh McCown that year.

The Browns rolled with DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler.

The Giants rolled out the bones of Eli Manning with Geno Smith and Shane Vereen.


None of these teams would have been better with Kaepernick?

First off, he wasn't those things you say he was above anymore. The league figured him out and he wasn't able to adapt, and was one of the worst starting QBs in the league that last year in SF...plus he's coming off a shoulder injury. I'll give him credit for what he accomplished early on, but he didn't raise his game up once teams figured him out so what happened previously isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

But I did specifically say above that personnel decisions are not always made based on football decisions, but that doesn't mean a crime was committed. It's debatable that he was better than Manning or McCown, but sure he's better than the rest in a vacuum, but there's so many other things you ask for out of your backup QB than just being good at football.

I also said in an above response that if Cousins were to actually get hurt, I'd rather Mannion just helps us bottom out so that we can draft a franchise QB vs having Kaep maybe get us an extra win or two. So "better" is certainly relative. Plenty of teams would rather just bottom out in this case, so there's no benefit in having a slightly better backup QB, espcially when it comes with baggage.

The backup QB position in the NFL is weird, that's why it's necessarily "collusion" just because he's out of the league and is better than many backups.

Give us the teams that tanked and what QBs they selected that worked out for them.

It rarely works.

Thank god the Giants tanked for that turd Jones.

I'm really jealous of not having to pay Carson Wentz, Goff, Mayfield etc huge money.

How about Trubisky?

There have been a few if even that true game changers drafted over the last decade at the position.

Throw in Ricky Spielman can't identify a good one tonsave his life and I'm not too bothered about it.

[Oriole81]

I don’t buy that 32 teams all decided he wasn’t worth it purely on football alone. He was 28 at the time, had taken a team to the super bowl, and was one of the most dynamic run-pass threats in the game.

The Jets started 38 year-old Josh McCown that year.

The Browns rolled with DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler.http://forum.mnrubecentral.com/posting. ... ilies&f=11

The Giants rolled out the bones of Eli Manning with Geno Smith and Shane Vereen.


None of these teams would have been better with Kaepernick?

First off, he wasn't those things you say he was above anymore. The league figured him out and he wasn't able to adapt, and was one of the worst starting QBs in the league that last year in SF...plus he's coming off a shoulder injury. I'll give him credit for what he accomplished early on, but he didn't raise his game up once teams figured him out so what happened previously isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

But I did specifically say above that personnel decisions are not always made based on football decisions, but that doesn't mean a crime was committed. It's debatable that he was better than Manning or McCown, but sure he's better than the rest in a vacuum, but there's so many other things you ask for out of your backup QB than just being good at football.

I also said in an above response that if Cousins were to actually get hurt, I'd rather Mannion just helps us bottom out so that we can draft a franchise QB vs having Kaep maybe get us an extra win or two. So "better" is certainly relative. Plenty of teams would rather just bottom out in this case, so there's no benefit in having a slightly better backup QB, espcially when it comes with baggage.

The backup QB position in the NFL is weird, that's why it's necessarily "collusion" just because he's out of the league and is better than many backups.

Give us the teams that tanked and what QBs they selected that worked out for them.

It rarely works.

Thank god the Giants tanked for that turd Jones.

I'm really jealous of not having to pay Carson Wentz, Goff, Mayfield etc huge money.

How about Trubisky?

There have been a few if even that true game changers drafted over the last decade at the position.

Throw in Ricky Spielman can't identify a good one tonsave his life and I'm not too bothered about it.

Wentz was an MVP candidate the year they went to the SB until he got hurt, and the fact that he was so cheap helped them stack the rest of that team.
Goff absolutely contributed to the Rams making the SB
Mayfield has promise, and 3 years still under rookie control. He can turn the corner.
Trubisky was just flat out wrong, but they easily could have swapped him out for Mahomes or Watson. They did good getting in that spot, they just made the wrong pick.
Jones played better than most expected, and has 4 years still of cheap team control. The Giants easily could rise up just like the Bills did last year with Josh Allen.

Paying the 2nd contract is a completely separate conversation that has nothing to do with getting the prospect cheap early. The Eagles and Rams could have just let those guys go after their rookie deal expired and both would have well earned SB appearances.
So I don't agree with your point at all.

[RubeTube]

First off, he wasn't those things you say he was above anymore. The league figured him out and he wasn't able to adapt, and was one of the worst starting QBs in the league that last year in SF...plus he's coming off a shoulder injury. I'll give him credit for what he accomplished early on, but he didn't raise his game up once teams figured him out so what happened previously isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

But I did specifically say above that personnel decisions are not always made based on football decisions, but that doesn't mean a crime was committed. It's debatable that he was better than Manning or McCown, but sure he's better than the rest in a vacuum, but there's so many other things you ask for out of your backup QB than just being good at football.

I also said in an above response that if Cousins were to actually get hurt, I'd rather Mannion just helps us bottom out so that we can draft a franchise QB vs having Kaep maybe get us an extra win or two. So "better" is certainly relative. Plenty of teams would rather just bottom out in this case, so there's no benefit in having a slightly better backup QB, espcially when it comes with baggage.

The backup QB position in the NFL is weird, that's why it's necessarily "collusion" just because he's out of the league and is better than many backups.

Give us the teams that tanked and what QBs they selected that worked out for them.

It rarely works.

Thank god the Giants tanked for that turd Jones.

I'm really jealous of not having to pay Carson Wentz, Goff, Mayfield etc huge money.

How about Trubisky?

There have been a few if even that true game changers drafted over the last decade at the position.

Throw in Ricky Spielman can't identify a good one tonsave his life and I'm not too bothered about it.

Wentz was an MVP candidate the year they went to the SB until he got hurt, and the fact that he was so cheap helped them stack the rest of that team.
Goff absolutely contributed to the Rams making the SB
Mayfield has promise, and 3 years still under rookie control. He can turn the corner.
Trubisky was just flat out wrong, but they easily could have swapped him out for Mahomes or Watson. They did good getting in that spot, they just made the wrong pick.
Jones played better than most expected, and has 4 years still of cheap team control. The Giants easily could rise up just like the Bills did last year with Josh Allen.

Paying the 2nd contract is a completely separate conversation that has nothing to do with getting the prospect cheap early.
So I don't agree with your point at all.

Wentz is hot garbage. That contract is horrible.

Goff even worse.

Keenum also made it a game before the SB and all the other countless hacks who have won one. Like Foles the year "MVP" Wentz went down.

Wentz, G off etc are mediocre high paid QBs. Derrick Carr was once playing lights out and got hurt too.

Mahomes, Watson, Luck? Who else am I missing that was a rd #1 selection over the last decade other than these three. Probably missing someone.

[Da Gas Man]

I don’t buy that 32 teams all decided he wasn’t worth it purely on football alone. He was 28 at the time, had taken a team to the super bowl, and was one of the most dynamic run-pass threats in the game.

The Jets started 38 year-old Josh McCown that year.

The Browns rolled with DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan, and Cody Kessler.

The Giants rolled out the bones of Eli Manning with Geno Smith and Shane Vereen.


None of these teams would have been better with Kaepernick?

I don't think he was blackballed. There is no doubt that he was better than a lot of QBs who got shots. Still, it wasn't a football decision. It was a purely financial one. We can talk about whether a team should have stood up for ethical reasons but that is another discussion. I think every GM saw the financial cost and distraction of Kap and decided that he wasn't good enough to be worth the hit. They didn't necessarily need to collude on that. They each came to the same business decision.

I personally agree with them that from a purely financial situation, Kap's benefit did not exceed his cost. If Aaron Rodgers would have knelt 6 years ago, he would have still been retained and paid highly because his play exceeded the cost from a purely financial perspective.

I'm not saying that this is right. I am saying that if the bottom line is the only concern, then it's a reasonable decision. (I agree with Peter King that when the NFL claims to be about social change, it is rubbish. They mean that they care about social change as long as it doesn't interfere with the bottom line.)

How many teams made him offers? How many teams brought him in?

I understand the financials can play a role, but that’s why you try to strike a deal. You make him an offer and if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t sign.

That didn’t happen, did it?

Cost means more than salary. Owners made the decision that they would lose a large percentage of season ticket holders. There is a large percentage of fans that would turn away because of it. It’s sad but true. Also the distraction factor was a huge issue too.

It’s not right but it is what it is.

[Oriole81]

Give us the teams that tanked and what QBs they selected that worked out for them.

It rarely works.

Thank god the Giants tanked for that turd Jones.

I'm really jealous of not having to pay Carson Wentz, Goff, Mayfield etc huge money.

How about Trubisky?

There have been a few if even that true game changers drafted over the last decade at the position.

Throw in Ricky Spielman can't identify a good one tonsave his life and I'm not too bothered about it.

Wentz was an MVP candidate the year they went to the SB until he got hurt, and the fact that he was so cheap helped them stack the rest of that team.
Goff absolutely contributed to the Rams making the SB
Mayfield has promise, and 3 years still under rookie control. He can turn the corner.
Trubisky was just flat out wrong, but they easily could have swapped him out for Mahomes or Watson. They did good getting in that spot, they just made the wrong pick.
Jones played better than most expected, and has 4 years still of cheap team control. The Giants easily could rise up just like the Bills did last year with Josh Allen.

Paying the 2nd contract is a completely separate conversation that has nothing to do with getting the prospect cheap early.
So I don't agree with your point at all.

Wentz is hot garbage. That contract is horrible.

Goff even worse.

Keenum also made it a game before the SB and all the other countless hacks who have won one. Like Foles the year "MVP" Wentz went down.

Wentz, G off etc are mediocre high paid QBs. Derrick Carr was once playing lights out and got hurt too.

Mahomes, Watson, Luck? Who else am I missing that was a rd #1 selection over the last decade other than these three. Probably missing someone.

How did you miss the point that I don't care about the 2nd contract? I care about what they did as a rookie, while they were on their cheap deal, and how it contributed to the team being able to stack the other positions and make a long run. Yes Foles is the one that eventually got the Eagles over the finish line, but its reasonable to say that Wentz could also have done that if healthy. He was an MVP candidate that year.

And just remember that the comp here is Kaepernick that was already one of the worst starting QBs in the league in his last year in 2016 and who hasn't played a down since, so even if you want to disagree with my premise you're still hard pressed to make the case that Kaep could lead the team on some Keenum-esque run instead of just maybe getting us one or two more wins that ultimately don't do much of anything.

[RubeTube]

Wentz was an MVP candidate the year they went to the SB until he got hurt, and the fact that he was so cheap helped them stack the rest of that team.
Goff absolutely contributed to the Rams making the SB
Mayfield has promise, and 3 years still under rookie control. He can turn the corner.
Trubisky was just flat out wrong, but they easily could have swapped him out for Mahomes or Watson. They did good getting in that spot, they just made the wrong pick.
Jones played better than most expected, and has 4 years still of cheap team control. The Giants easily could rise up just like the Bills did last year with Josh Allen.

Paying the 2nd contract is a completely separate conversation that has nothing to do with getting the prospect cheap early.
So I don't agree with your point at all.

Wentz is hot garbage. That contract is horrible.

Goff even worse.

Keenum also made it a game before the SB and all the other countless hacks who have won one. Like Foles the year "MVP" Wentz went down.

Wentz, G off etc are mediocre high paid QBs. Derrick Carr was once playing lights out and got hurt too.

Mahomes, Watson, Luck? Who else am I missing that was a rd #1 selection over the last decade other than these three. Probably missing someone.

How did you miss the point that I don't care about the 2nd contract? I care about what they did as a rookie, while they were on their cheap deal, and how it contributed to the team being able to stack the other positions and make a long run. Yes Foles is the one that eventually got the Eagles over the finish line, but its reasonable to say that Wentz could also have done that if healthy. He was an MVP candidate that year.

And just remember that the comp here is Kaepernick that was already one of the worst starting QBs in the league in his last year in 2016 and who hasn't played a down since, so even if you want to disagree with my premise you're still hard pressed to make the case that Kaep could lead the team on some Keenum-esque run instead of just maybe getting us one or two more wins that ultimately don't do much of anything.

But the same guy you are ripoing, went further than Wentz on his rookie contract.

I believe the Vikings beat the Eagles in 2017 if Wentz played. Actually, I don't even think the Eagles get by the Falcons the game before. It took Foles to come in the year after to rally them to the playoffs that year.

So you are basically saying to tank to see if you can have that one fluke year under a roomie deal to win it all?

BRILLIANT!

[Oriole81]

Wentz is hot garbage. That contract is horrible.

Goff even worse.

Keenum also made it a game before the SB and all the other countless hacks who have won one. Like Foles the year "MVP" Wentz went down.

Wentz, G off etc are mediocre high paid QBs. Derrick Carr was once playing lights out and got hurt too.

Mahomes, Watson, Luck? Who else am I missing that was a rd #1 selection over the last decade other than these three. Probably missing someone.

How did you miss the point that I don't care about the 2nd contract? I care about what they did as a rookie, while they were on their cheap deal, and how it contributed to the team being able to stack the other positions and make a long run. Yes Foles is the one that eventually got the Eagles over the finish line, but its reasonable to say that Wentz could also have done that if healthy. He was an MVP candidate that year.

And just remember that the comp here is Kaepernick that was already one of the worst starting QBs in the league in his last year in 2016 and who hasn't played a down since, so even if you want to disagree with my premise you're still hard pressed to make the case that Kaep could lead the team on some Keenum-esque run instead of just maybe getting us one or two more wins that ultimately don't do much of anything.

But the same guy you are ripoing, went further than Wentz on his rookie contract.

I believe the Vikings beat the Eagles in 2017 if Wentz played. Actually, I don't even think the Eagles get by the Falcons the game before. It took Foles to come in the year after to rally them to the playoffs that year.

So you are basically saying to tank to see if you can have that one fluke year under a roomie deal to win it all?

BRILLIANT!

And I gave Kaep credit above for what he did to get his team to the SB, but he didn't adapt his game after teams figured him out, which is why he was one of the worst starting QBs in his last year. If you're saying the likes of Goff and Wentz are hot garbage now once their 2nd contracts got signed you'd have to say the same thing about Kaep after he signed his.

But Goff still helped get his team to the SB, that can't be denied.
Flacco on his rookie deal also was the one that beat Kaep.

Regarding your last point, lets also remember that we have Lawrence, Fields and Lantz in this upcoming draft, so that's pretty high potential for more than just a a one year fluke. And whether I want that or not, you still didn't address the point about whether Kaep would even be a significant upgrade. Unless he's able to replicate Foles or Keenum, it's all moot, and there's nothing to show that he can.

[Beef Supreme]

I don't think he was blackballed. There is no doubt that he was better than a lot of QBs who got shots. Still, it wasn't a football decision. It was a purely financial one. We can talk about whether a team should have stood up for ethical reasons but that is another discussion. I think every GM saw the financial cost and distraction of Kap and decided that he wasn't good enough to be worth the hit. They didn't necessarily need to collude on that. They each came to the same business decision.

I personally agree with them that from a purely financial situation, Kap's benefit did not exceed his cost. If Aaron Rodgers would have knelt 6 years ago, he would have still been retained and paid highly because his play exceeded the cost from a purely financial perspective.

I'm not saying that this is right. I am saying that if the bottom line is the only concern, then it's a reasonable decision. (I agree with Peter King that when the NFL claims to be about social change, it is rubbish. They mean that they care about social change as long as it doesn't interfere with the bottom line.)

How many teams made him offers? How many teams brought him in?

I understand the financials can play a role, but that’s why you try to strike a deal. You make him an offer and if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t sign.

That didn’t happen, did it?

Cost means more than salary. Owners made the decision that they would lose a large percentage of season ticket holders. There is a large percentage of fans that would turn away because of it. It’s sad but true. Also the distraction factor was a huge issue too.

It’s not right but it is what it is.

I agree. But I believe they did it together. I can’t prove it, but it would only take one to give him the call and none did.

That’s collusion and blacklisting.

[Da Gas Man]

How many teams made him offers? How many teams brought him in?

I understand the financials can play a role, but that’s why you try to strike a deal. You make him an offer and if he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t sign.

That didn’t happen, did it?

Cost means more than salary. Owners made the decision that they would lose a large percentage of season ticket holders. There is a large percentage of fans that would turn away because of it. It’s sad but true. Also the distraction factor was a huge issue too.

It’s not right but it is what it is.

I agree. But I believe they did it together. I can’t prove it, but it would only take one to give him the call and none did.

That’s collusion and blacklisting.

Certainly possible.

[Phrooster]

Easy no ! hasn't played in four years