Assessment so far

[hategreenticemase]

Not good.

1. In my opinion, drafting a receiver first was asinine. If one of the big 3 are there, maybe, but I couldnt be more disappointed and frustrated. When getting Kinlaw wasnt an option, moving down was the smarter move. Maybe there wasnt an opp to do so, I dont know. I just know that for a variety of reasons, taking WR first was moronic and so typical RS bullshit.

2. Got fleeced on the trade down. Half the points they should have gotten. Like the idea, hate what they got, and again, I would have strongly preferred trading 22 down and getting either a 2 or a good 3. Extra 4th is fine, and we got a quality guy in Gladney, but not what I would have preferred.

3. I would have thought DT would have been a priority. It should be. I guess I had hoped to trade down and then grab Blacklock or Gallimore. Maybe we get one of them anyway. Damn sure better get a good one soon.

If we get Williams, things look a little better. Its a pretty big key right now as if we get him and can draft a guard in next 2 or 3 rounds we maybe ok on OL. If not, well, shockingly we will still have OL as a huge issue.

We damn sure need a DT and soon.

[Bob Wiley]

Who would you have drafted?

[-VikingsTw-]

I guess I'm out of loop on trade value but it looked pretty good to me, there was so many good players on the board and too still get Gladney looked good IMO.

Deep down WR is a huge need, the reason I say that is Thielens age, I don't want to think about it too much but it is what it is. I like to think he's still a top tier WR in the league but Jefferson has 1 potential.

Time always tells but there is no doubt that trenches better be a real priority.

I know the 49ers have managed a way to get a ton of picks early in draft but they fully understand the importance of having dominant trenches and it shows, it showed vs us in the playoffs. We got totally outmatched.

I'm all in on Trent Williams if they don't believe in one these remaining tackles. He's a risk but he doesn't have the nickname silver back for no reason. He a legit stud when healthy.

I hope they can get there hands on Shane L from Oregon or the Johnah Jackson, they need a starting guard IMO and like you said they need a 3T DT. Running Stephen out there just isn't gonna cut it IMO. Watts my be there best bet but he didn't make the season without being injured.

[Oriole81]

I don't get the complains about the trade back value. For small trade downs in the back of the first, they're not that fruitful and they haven't been for a while.

Last year Sea only got two 4ths to move all the way back from 21 to 29.
Balt got a 4th and a 6th to move from 22 to 25.
We got a 4th and a 5th to move back 6 spots even later in the 20s.
That's what the market is.

Is anyone that complains that we didn't get value prepared to walk away from the deal because of that, and just the take same guy we would have taken anyway?

[mlhouse]

Not wanting to repeat what I said in another thread, I will add a couple of additional comments:

1. People claiming that the trade down did not get value are wrong. While I rarely consult the "trade value chart", this trade is about as close as you can come to value in value out based on those values. Remember, trading draft picks is a "discrete" exercise. You only have the blocks you have. So, the value you have to trade is literally a handful of values.

2. I do think that the Vikings move strongly suggests that they have a deal made for Trent Williams, and that probably involves pick 105.

3. Of the 6 corners drafted in the first round, outside of those picked in the top ten, I had Gladney ranked as the best value. The problem is I don't think there was much difference between those corners and some of the corners that will be drafted in the 2nd.

4. Answering a question about who they should have drafted, I probably hold off on a wide receiver and pick an offensive lineman instead. I think I go Josh Jones-Ross Blacklock instead. Find a corner in the 2nd. Receiver later. But then I have no clue what their plans are with Williams.

[Bob Wiley]

4. Answering a question about who they should have drafted, I probably hold off on a wide receiver and pick an offensive lineman instead. I think I go Josh Jones-Ross Blacklock instead. Find a corner in the 2nd. Receiver later. But then I have no clue what their plans are with Williams.

At least you explained. As the smartest guy in the room though, you would have taken a second round guy in the first round, right?

[Offsides 97 defense]

I don't get the complains about the trade back value. For small trade downs in the back of the first, they're not that fruitful and they haven't been for a while.

Last year Sea only got two 4ths to move all the way back from 21 to 29.
Balt got a 4th and a 6th to move from 22 to 25.
We got a 4th and a 5th to move back 6 spots even later in the 20s.
That's what the market is.

Is anyone that complains that we didn't get value prepared to walk away from the deal because of that, and just the take same guy we would have taken anyway?

I don't get the complaint either.

These are the posts you normally get every year because the draft didn't work out the way they wanted it.

Nobody knows shit. Nobody knows what's gonna happen.

I remember the older board when the Vikings took Adrian Peterson over Laron Landry and how many angry emotionally unstable Viking fans there were because it wasn't the guy they wanted. The Vikings staff has salaries to consider, background reports to go off of, and a myriad of other things clueless Madden, fantasy football-playing fans will just never know. Surprisingly, there aren't too many on here this year.

[Mandatory]

I'm coming around on the WR pick. I like it now. Did not like the trade down. I'll like it a lot if they pick up Williams. Not a fan of taking a corner at 31. I think we could take one or two later and have made due this year. The knee and size concern me. I like the idea of getting a real DAWG, a scrappy dood. We don't have enough of those guys on this team. Hope it works out.

[witljon]

Not good.

1. In my opinion, drafting a receiver first was asinine. If one of the big 3 are there, maybe, but I couldnt be more disappointed and frustrated. When getting Kinlaw wasnt an option, moving down was the smarter move. Maybe there wasnt an opp to do so, I dont know. I just know that for a variety of reasons, taking WR first was moronic and so typical RS bullshit.

Sounds like Jefferson was Gary Kubiaks favorite WR in the draft

[stout93]

Not good.

1. In my opinion, drafting a receiver first was asinine. If one of the big 3 are there, maybe, but I couldnt be more disappointed and frustrated. When getting Kinlaw wasnt an option, moving down was the smarter move. Maybe there wasnt an opp to do so, I dont know. I just know that for a variety of reasons, taking WR first was moronic and so typical RS bullshit.

Sounds like Jefferson was Gary Kubiaks favorite WR in the draft

I thought I heard the analysts (Kiper and the like) imply earlier in the week that Jefferson was moving up draft boards, so not surprising that Kubiak likes him alot. I was hoping Ruggs would fall which was a dream, but thought Jefferson was more realistic. I think he will be a stud.

[dantheman12]

Fantastic day! Shocked ppl. Don't agree.

[witljon]

I don't get the complains about the trade back value. For small trade downs in the back of the first, they're not that fruitful and they haven't been for a while.

Last year Sea only got two 4ths to move all the way back from 21 to 29.
Balt got a 4th and a 6th to move from 22 to 25.
We got a 4th and a 5th to move back 6 spots even later in the 20s.
That's what the market is.

Is anyone that complains that we didn't get value prepared to walk away from the deal because of that, and just the take same guy we would have taken anyway?

If we stayed at 25 I believe we select Jeff Gladney.
I don’t see anyone picked between 25 and 31 that we may have selected.

[Oriole81]

I don't get the complains about the trade back value. For small trade downs in the back of the first, they're not that fruitful and they haven't been for a while.

Last year Sea only got two 4ths to move all the way back from 21 to 29.
Balt got a 4th and a 6th to move from 22 to 25.
We got a 4th and a 5th to move back 6 spots even later in the 20s.
That's what the market is.

Is anyone that complains that we didn't get value prepared to walk away from the deal because of that, and just the take same guy we would have taken anyway?

If we stayed at 25 I believe we select Jeff Gladney.
I don’t see anyone picked between 25 and 31 that we may have selected.

I agree, and even if Gladney did go we could have easily swapped out Jaylon Johnson or Kristian Fulton.

[hategreenticemase]

Who would you have drafted?

I would have moved up to get Kinlaw but that may not have been feasible.

I would have then traded down 22. I wanted an extra top 70 pick. Then maybe 25 trade down small like we did and take Blacklock or Gallimore.

[hategreenticemase]

I don't get the complains about the trade back value. For small trade downs in the back of the first, they're not that fruitful and they haven't been for a while.

Last year Sea only got two 4ths to move all the way back from 21 to 29.
Balt got a 4th and a 6th to move from 22 to 25.
We got a 4th and a 5th to move back 6 spots even later in the 20s.
That's what the market is.

Is anyone that complains that we didn't get value prepared to walk away from the deal because of that, and just the take same guy we would have taken anyway?

The point is, we needed the bigger return we WOULD have got trading down from 22, than needed Jefferson. We didnt get value from 25, period. If thats what market was, then it is what it is, and I am glad we got that much, but I would have STRONGLY preferred moving 22 and getting at least a God damn 3rd. And more importantly, NOT take a WR first when its a WR rich draft and when we dont value #2 receivers the same here anyway.

[hategreenticemase]

Not good.

1. In my opinion, drafting a receiver first was asinine. If one of the big 3 are there, maybe, but I couldnt be more disappointed and frustrated. When getting Kinlaw wasnt an option, moving down was the smarter move. Maybe there wasnt an opp to do so, I dont know. I just know that for a variety of reasons, taking WR first was moronic and so typical RS bullshit.

Sounds like Jefferson was Gary Kubiaks favorite WR in the draft

Of our 4 major needs (DT, WR, CB and OL) we took the 2 we can deal with later, first. Thats the big issue for me. Again, get Zim a corner or 2, but he simply has to fucking develop them or we are sunk anyway, and its a receiver rich draft, 2nd or 3rd could have gotten a quality guy.

Maybe they had Jefferson on a diff tier than anyone else, I dont know. I just didnt want a receiver in first rd and when we could not get impact player in Kinlaw, I preferred moving down.

[Oriole81]

Who would you have drafted?

I would have moved up to get Kinlaw but that may not have been feasible.

I would have then traded down 22. I wanted an extra top 70 pick. Then maybe 25 trade down small like we did and take Blacklock or Gallimore.

Would you have done the Chargers trade, moving down to 37 and getting 71 on top?

[Oriole81]

I don't get the complains about the trade back value. For small trade downs in the back of the first, they're not that fruitful and they haven't been for a while.

Last year Sea only got two 4ths to move all the way back from 21 to 29.
Balt got a 4th and a 6th to move from 22 to 25.
We got a 4th and a 5th to move back 6 spots even later in the 20s.
That's what the market is.

Is anyone that complains that we didn't get value prepared to walk away from the deal because of that, and just the take same guy we would have taken anyway?

The point is, we needed the bigger return we WOULD have got trading down from 22, than needed Jefferson. We didnt get value from 25, period. If thats what market was, then it is what it is, and I am glad we got that much, but I would have STRONGLY preferred moving 22 and getting at least a God damn 3rd. And more importantly, NOT take a WR first when its a WR rich draft and when we dont value #2 receivers the same here anyway.

see post above

[Oriole81]

I don't get the complains about the trade back value. For small trade downs in the back of the first, they're not that fruitful and they haven't been for a while.

Last year Sea only got two 4ths to move all the way back from 21 to 29.
Balt got a 4th and a 6th to move from 22 to 25.
We got a 4th and a 5th to move back 6 spots even later in the 20s.
That's what the market is.

Is anyone that complains that we didn't get value prepared to walk away from the deal because of that, and just the take same guy we would have taken anyway?

The point is, we needed the bigger return we WOULD have got trading down from 22, than needed Jefferson. We didnt get value from 25, period. If thats what market was, then it is what it is, and I am glad we got that much, but I would have STRONGLY preferred moving 22 and getting at least a God damn 3rd. And more importantly, NOT take a WR first when its a WR rich draft and when we dont value #2 receivers the same here anyway.

see post above

but I don't think we NEEDED a big return.
We already had 12 picks going into the draft, so we already had ample capital to trade up on Day 2 if need be, and the 25 trade down gives us 12 picks still after the 1st rd.

[hategreenticemase]

I don't get the complains about the trade back value. For small trade downs in the back of the first, they're not that fruitful and they haven't been for a while.

Last year Sea only got two 4ths to move all the way back from 21 to 29.
Balt got a 4th and a 6th to move from 22 to 25.
We got a 4th and a 5th to move back 6 spots even later in the 20s.
That's what the market is.

Is anyone that complains that we didn't get value prepared to walk away from the deal because of that, and just the take same guy we would have taken anyway?

The point is, we needed the bigger return we WOULD have got trading down from 22, than needed Jefferson. We didnt get value from 25, period. If thats what market was, then it is what it is, and I am glad we got that much, but I would have STRONGLY preferred moving 22 and getting at least a God damn 3rd. And more importantly, NOT take a WR first when its a WR rich draft and when we dont value #2 receivers the same here anyway.

see post above

I dont agree. Its not a matter of "need" its a matter of benefit. We have enough holes and the draft is set up to be quality enough at some of those holes, that and extra pick or 2 in 50-80 range could net us starters.

[mlhouse]

4. Answering a question about who they should have drafted, I probably hold off on a wide receiver and pick an offensive lineman instead. I think I go Josh Jones-Ross Blacklock instead. Find a corner in the 2nd. Receiver later. But then I have no clue what their plans are with Williams.

At least you explained. As the smartest guy in the room though, you would have taken a second round guy in the first round, right?

I don't think there is that much difference in value, if any, between some of the guys drafted in he late first and in the 2nd. The value of the available players is almost always in a tier, and that becomes even more signifcant when you look at the players in a grouping.

Example: look at the receivers. What is the difference between Reagor, Aiyuk, Jefferson, Mims, Higgins, Shenault, Pittman?

There might be some preference created by your offensive scheme. There may be some preference created by your roster composition eg you have a big receiver and looking for a smaller, slot type guy.

I like Aiyuk more than Jefferson, but I get that the Vikings preferred Jefferson, and my preference for Aiyuk over Jefferson is small.

In the end, a lot of how this pick works out depends on the Vikings staff's willingness to open up the offense. If we return to the 2018 level of passing, more than 600 attempts, it might be a great pick. If we keep the 2019 level, 30th in the league in attempts, I think the pick is a disaster.

[Oriole81]

The point is, we needed the bigger return we WOULD have got trading down from 22, than needed Jefferson. We didnt get value from 25, period. If thats what market was, then it is what it is, and I am glad we got that much, but I would have STRONGLY preferred moving 22 and getting at least a God damn 3rd. And more importantly, NOT take a WR first when its a WR rich draft and when we dont value #2 receivers the same here anyway.

see post above

I dont agree. Its not a matter of "need" its a matter of benefit. We have enough holes and the draft is set up to be quality enough at some of those holes, that and extra pick or 2 in 50-80 range could net us starters.

so I asked you above too, would you have done the Chargers trade for 37 and 71?
otherwise, there probably wasn't a market where we could stay in the first AND get a Top 70 pick that you think is needed.

And I'm not even saying that the Chargers deal would be wrong, I'm just confused on what exactly you want because just saying you want to trade down and get another Top 70 pick doesn't line up with the market.

[Beef Supreme]

It’s not the perfect start to the weekend I dreamed of, but I can see this being the start of a very good draft, depending on what happens over the next 36 hours or so.

[hategreenticemase]

see post above

I dont agree. Its not a matter of "need" its a matter of benefit. We have enough holes and the draft is set up to be quality enough at some of those holes, that and extra pick or 2 in 50-80 range could net us starters.

so I asked you above too, would you have done the Chargers trade for 37 and 71?
otherwise, there probably wasn't a market where we could stay in the first AND get a Top 70 pick that you think is needed.

And I'm not even saying that the Chargers deal would be wrong, I'm just confused on what exactly you want because just saying you want to trade down and get another Top 70 pick doesn't line up with the market.

100% I would have. Commensurate return for sure. Then at 25 I still do other deal that we did. Not commensurate return, but must have been what market was which is all that matters.

You are more a draft expert than I - is Blacklock or Gallimore "over drafted " at 31? Thats what I would have done, but my question is is Gladney a tier above those guys?

My main beef is taking a receiver in first, I just completely disagree unless maybe one of the 3 studs dropped, and secondly once board played out I wanted to move down from 22 and get an extra top 75 pick.

[Thrillkill]

My assessment a little different after some thought. Not better though more understandable. Hated the Jefferson pick. Been saying since the jump I don't get why rubes like him. I see nothing special about him. Not to mention he plays where Theilen plays....................oh. Sure does make me think that we have questions about Theilen going forward. I will really be thinking that if one of the next 3 picks is another WR. Just hate going WR in the 1st. Middle of the field possession guy at that. Everyone go and watch Jefferson's SR highlight package and find one play, ONE, that makes Johnson's top 10 min either of the last 2 years. That is terrible value. I would have "reached" for a OG, DT, S, CB, DE before taking Jefferson. Man I hope I'm wrong on him.

The trade back shows you that teams know what I've been saying for months. Players from 15 to 50 are all the same. Getting anything to move was good value.............if we use that value wisely. The Gladney pick I was pissed about just because it wasn't Winfield. If Zimm likes Gladney I will get on board but don't see why we don't take the double threat in Winfield. Though it seems pretty obvious with the 2 highest guys on the board being S and taking a CB that Harris is here to stay.

Right now they get a hopeful C. These next 3 picks better (with use of some of the extra ammo) better yeild a pass rushing DT, an OL who can play now, and either Winfield or an edge rusher.

[hategreenticemase]

It’s not the perfect start to the weekend I dreamed of, but I can see this being the start of a very good draft, depending on what happens over the next 36 hours or so.

indeed. Still could be good. Williams is almost a must have now. If we don't have to use any of our next 3 picks to get him, that really improves the situation.

I'm very worried about DT, tho. I think we simply have to get one of Blacklock or Gallimore.

[Bob Wiley]

Who would you have drafted?

I would have moved up to get Kinlaw but that may not have been feasible.

I would have then traded down 22. I wanted an extra top 70 pick. Then maybe 25 trade down small like we did and take Blacklock or Gallimore.

“Taking a WR was moronic.”

Really. You probably didn’t hear, but Diggs isn’t a Viking anymore, so MN needed to find a guy to replace him. Since Jefferson is a standout WR, your take is interesting. You and I have a different definition of “moronic.”

[Bob Wiley]

4. Answering a question about who they should have drafted, I probably hold off on a wide receiver and pick an offensive lineman instead. I think I go Josh Jones-Ross Blacklock instead. Find a corner in the 2nd. Receiver later. But then I have no clue what their plans are with Williams.

At least you explained. As the smartest guy in the room though, you would have taken a second round guy in the first round, right?

I don't think there is that much difference in value, if any, between some of the guys drafted in he late first and in the 2nd. The value of the available players is almost always in a tier, and that becomes even more signifcant when you look at the players in a grouping.

Example: look at the receivers. What is the difference between Reagor, Aiyuk, Jefferson, Mims, Higgins, Shenault, Pittman?

There might be some preference created by your offensive scheme. There may be some preference created by your roster composition eg you have a big receiver and looking for a smaller, slot type guy.

I like Aiyuk more than Jefferson, but I get that the Vikings preferred Jefferson, and my preference for Aiyuk over Jefferson is small.

In the end, a lot of how this pick works out depends on the Vikings staff's willingness to open up the offense. If we return to the 2018 level of passing, more than 600 attempts, it might be a great pick. If we keep the 2019 level, 30th in the league in attempts, I think the pick is a disaster.

So... yes? That’s interesting. Normally, teams move up to get guys that won’t be there when the team actually picks. But not you. You want to draft guys a round early. Good plan. Why aren’t you advising Rick? He must know who you are and how smart you are. Don’t you have a PhD in economics?

[Beef Supreme]

Who would you have drafted?

I would have moved up to get Kinlaw but that may not have been feasible.

I would have then traded down 22. I wanted an extra top 70 pick. Then maybe 25 trade down small like we did and take Blacklock or Gallimore.

“Taking a WR was moronic.”

Really. You probably didn’t hear, but Diggs isn’t a Viking anymore, so MN needed to find a guy to replace him. Since Jefferson is a standout WR, your take is interesting. You and I have a different definition of “moronic.”

I like jefferson. I mocked him to the packers in the froob draft.


My issue is not that he’s not good. He is. It’s not that WR isn’t a need. It is. My issue is that I think we can get a guy that is 90% of Jefferson in the 3rd round this year, imho.

The counter to that is, then who do you pick at 22?

I feel that Ruiz or Jones or Wilson would have been a reach at 22. We still got the cb we probably wanted later in the round. I would have liked a trade up or back to get a guy at a higher need position and/or additional value, but maybe nobody was a good partner. We can’t know the answer to that.

So I don’t love how it unfolded for us, but that’s outside of our control. Given how it did unfold, I don’t hate jefferson. I just wish we would have had better options.

[witljon]

I would not have been against drafting Cesar Ruiz at 22.