Players Holding Out

[Beef Supreme]

We get mad at the players because it’s good players we want to see that hold out.

We don’t get mad at owners because it’s usually shitty overpaid players that get cut.


We’re in it for entertainment and anything that takes good, entertaining players off the field sucks. So holdouts suck. How dare these assholes diminish my autumn Sunday afternoon entertainment experience! Fuckers!

[mlhouse]

Why aren’t teams held to that standard in football?

Because much of a NFL contract is not guaranteed. IF the NFL had guarnteed contracts like othe sports, the face value of the contracts would drop significantly because of the injury risk.

But, all of this is meaningless because everyone knows that the real value of a NFL contract is in the guaranteed money at signing and other guarantees throughout hte contract. NFL players push up the present value of the contract with signing bonus because they understand the nature of the risks in their contracts.

The NFL CBA even puts value on this by allowing the cap figures of a signing bonus to be amortized over the course of the contract.

Well because all of what you stated, don't be shocked when a player holds out. And you don't have to like it, or dislike it. But it's gonna happen.

If a player under contract holds out they are violating their contract. If a team cuts a player who does not have guaranteed money they are within the contract. Pretty simple distinction.

The NFL players are better off without guaranteed contracts because it makes them more money in the long run. If the NFL had guaranteed contracts like other less injury prone sports they would make significant Loy less money.

[B-Town]

We get mad at the players because it’s good players we want to see that hold out.

We don’t get mad at owners because it’s usually shitty overpaid players that get cut.


We’re in it for entertainment and anything that takes good, entertaining players off the field sucks. So holdouts suck. How dare these assholes diminish my autumn Sunday afternoon entertainment experience! Fuckers!

These guys can hold out as long as they'd like. I drafted both Pollard and Ekeler last Saturday!

[B-Town]

Specific to Zeke is the fact that he might decide to smack his bitch up again and get suspended for a year. He had better make his paper now before she puts the dishes back in the cupboard wrong, again.

Spousal abuse is so funny!

Fuck off , whiner. I was ripping Zeke, not making light of his actions.

Sounds like a trip to the Olive Garden is in order.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

Because much of a NFL contract is not guaranteed. IF the NFL had guarnteed contracts like othe sports, the face value of the contracts would drop significantly because of the injury risk.

But, all of this is meaningless because everyone knows that the real value of a NFL contract is in the guaranteed money at signing and other guarantees throughout hte contract. NFL players push up the present value of the contract with signing bonus because they understand the nature of the risks in their contracts.

The NFL CBA even puts value on this by allowing the cap figures of a signing bonus to be amortized over the course of the contract.

Well because all of what you stated, don't be shocked when a player holds out. And you don't have to like it, or dislike it. But it's gonna happen.

If a player under contract holds out they are violating their contract. If a team cuts a player who does not have guaranteed money they are within the contract. Pretty simple distinction.

The NFL players are better off without guaranteed contracts because it makes them more money in the long run. If the NFL had guaranteed contracts like other less injury prone sports they would make significant Loy less money.

Yep doesn’t change the fact that they’re going to hold out. But keep posting like what you’re saying changes anything.

[JigglyPuff]

isn't Elliott a woman beater? If so, then I cheer his hold out.

[hategreenticemase]

isn't Elliott a woman beater? If so, then I cheer his hold out.

Yes just like Rooboobretard. God damn, if only he would "hold out".

[hategreenticemase]

We get mad at the players because it’s good players we want to see that hold out.

We don’t get mad at owners because it’s usually shitty overpaid players that get cut.


We’re in it for entertainment and anything that takes good, entertaining players off the field sucks. So holdouts suck. How dare these assholes diminish my autumn Sunday afternoon entertainment experience! Fuckers!

Spot on.

I will say most would likely agree the NFL being the only sport that doesnt guarantee contracts is fairly absurd, especially given the trauma caused to them physically, both short and long term.

What I find sickening is guys like Ditka have to lobby for more assistance for their elderly players. Thats fucking disgusting. The NFL should have the best fucking pension plan ever known to man, period. To me its such an obvious and hugely impactful PR move they could make by solving that problem and showing they give a F about their former players who have been destroyed by the game.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

We get mad at the players because it’s good players we want to see that hold out.

We don’t get mad at owners because it’s usually shitty overpaid players that get cut.


We’re in it for entertainment and anything that takes good, entertaining players off the field sucks. So holdouts suck. How dare these assholes diminish my autumn Sunday afternoon entertainment experience! Fuckers!

Spot on.

I will say most would likely agree the NFL being the only sport that doesnt guarantee contracts is fairly absurd, especially given the trauma caused to them physically, both short and long term.

What I find sickening is guys like Ditka have to lobby for more assistance for their elderly players. Thats fucking disgusting. The NFL should have the best fucking pension plan ever known to man, period. To me its such an obvious and hugely impactful PR move they could make by solving that problem and showing they give a F about their former players who have been destroyed by the game.

Totally agree. Well said.

[Beef Supreme]

We get mad at the players because it’s good players we want to see that hold out.

We don’t get mad at owners because it’s usually shitty overpaid players that get cut.


We’re in it for entertainment and anything that takes good, entertaining players off the field sucks. So holdouts suck. How dare these assholes diminish my autumn Sunday afternoon entertainment experience! Fuckers!

Spot on.

I will say most would likely agree the NFL being the only sport that doesnt guarantee contracts is fairly absurd, especially given the trauma caused to them physically, both short and long term.

What I find sickening is guys like Ditka have to lobby for more assistance for their elderly players. Thats fucking disgusting. The NFL should have the best fucking pension plan ever known to man, period. To me its such an obvious and hugely impactful PR move they could make by solving that problem and showing they give a F about their former players who have been destroyed by the game.

Totally agree. Well said.

Yep.


It’s on the current players too.


Every time the CBA is up, owners and players get together and decide how to divvy up that massive pie. They posture, threaten lockouts, threaten strikes, etc. and eventually come to some sort of arrangement where they all make zillions of dollars. They maybe throw a bone or two to old, injured players who are suffering, but not much. They could easily decide to give a little more to take care of these old timers, but they both, collectively, chose not to.

[cunningham]

Spot on.

I will say most would likely agree the NFL being the only sport that doesnt guarantee contracts is fairly absurd, especially given the trauma caused to them physically, both short and long term.

What I find sickening is guys like Ditka have to lobby for more assistance for their elderly players. Thats fucking disgusting. The NFL should have the best fucking pension plan ever known to man, period. To me its such an obvious and hugely impactful PR move they could make by solving that problem and showing they give a F about their former players who have been destroyed by the game.

Totally agree. Well said.

Yep.


It’s on the current players too.


Every time the CBA is up, owners and players get together and decide how to divvy up that massive pie. They posture, threaten lockouts, threaten strikes, etc. and eventually come to some sort of arrangement where they all make zillions of dollars. They maybe throw a bone or two to old, injured players who are suffering, but not much. They could easily decide to give a little more to take care of these old timers, but they both, collectively, chose not to.

Great points - especially Hate.

You would think the NFL would care more about its image. It feels like they have taken a big hit with brain injuries and the President even slamming the league. Pats owner getting caught in a prostitution sting.

The players should get more money. Damn Sam Bradford! Ruined the NFL!

[Slap Shot]

We get mad at the players because it’s good players we want to see that hold out.

We don’t get mad at owners because it’s usually shitty overpaid players that get cut.


We’re in it for entertainment and anything that takes good, entertaining players off the field sucks. So holdouts suck. How dare these assholes diminish my autumn Sunday afternoon entertainment experience! Fuckers!

Spot on.

I will say most would likely agree the NFL being the only sport that doesnt guarantee contracts is fairly absurd, especially given the trauma caused to them physically, both short and long term.

What I find sickening is guys like Ditka have to lobby for more assistance for their elderly players. Thats fucking disgusting. The NFL should have the best fucking pension plan ever known to man, period. To me its such an obvious and hugely impactful PR move they could make by solving that problem and showing they give a F about their former players who have been destroyed by the game.

The other component to this is the long play result that the PR you speak of could have all the way down to the parents of kids deciding if their sons should play football or soccer. Youth participation is dwindling and a lot of that is due to concussion worries. The NFL needs to demonstrate that playing football doesn't have to result in such high rates of concussions. (btw I believe concussion rates in soccer are not exactly minuscule). But more importantly they need to invest resources into improved coaching and training how to properly tackle/be tackled at youth levels, better analysis and diagnosis techniques at youth levels, investment into research for better helmets for players of all levels, etc. Not saying the NFL is in any sign of dire straights anytime soon, butt...

[Southpaw23]

You signed a contract. If you're under a contract you should honor it. If the team wants to work with you on a new one great. If not....honor what you agreed to.

This would hold water if owners were held to the same standard.

Show me an example of an unpunished breach of a contract by an NFL team.

[Dude]

You signed a contract. If you're under a contract you should honor it. If the team wants to work with you on a new one great. If not....honor what you agreed to.

This would hold water if owners were held to the same standard.

Show me an example of an unpunished breach of a contract by an NFL team.

What does that have to do with it? If an NFL team can cut players from a contract they had signed, then players should be able to hold out when they feel they've out performed that contract. Players can get fined for holding out and missing team activities which is part of the CBA agreement and I'm not arguing against that. They're not getting sued for breach of contract.

Again, why should we feel sorry for owners when they do the same exact thing on the other side?

[mlhouse]

Well because all of what you stated, don't be shocked when a player holds out. And you don't have to like it, or dislike it. But it's gonna happen.

If a player under contract holds out they are violating their contract. If a team cuts a player who does not have guaranteed money they are within the contract. Pretty simple distinction.

The NFL players are better off without guaranteed contracts because it makes them more money in the long run. If the NFL had guaranteed contracts like other less injury prone sports they would make significant Loy less money.

Yep doesn’t change the fact that they’re going to hold out. But keep posting like what you’re saying changes anything.

So, let me get this straight. Nothing I post "changes anything" yet this implies what you post does?

What I stated was facts. I never said that players will not hold out, that is just some random argument you added to the discussion.

NFL contracts are complicated with a mixture of guaranteed and non-guaranteed money. The player is obligated to play the contract out while the owners can "fire" a player at any time. That is the contractual structure.

THe players can change the way their contracts work but they don't want to because if they did their contract values will go down significantly.

[B-Town]

We get mad at the players because it’s good players we want to see that hold out.

We don’t get mad at owners because it’s usually shitty overpaid players that get cut.


We’re in it for entertainment and anything that takes good, entertaining players off the field sucks. So holdouts suck. How dare these assholes diminish my autumn Sunday afternoon entertainment experience! Fuckers!

Spot on.

I will say most would likely agree the NFL being the only sport that doesnt guarantee contracts is fairly absurd, especially given the trauma caused to them physically, both short and long term.

What I find sickening is guys like Ditka have to lobby for more assistance for their elderly players. Thats fucking disgusting. The NFL should have the best fucking pension plan ever known to man, period. To me its such an obvious and hugely impactful PR move they could make by solving that problem and showing they give a F about their former players who have been destroyed by the game.

The other component to this is the long play result that the PR you speak of could have all the way down to the parents of kids deciding if their sons should play football or soccer. Youth participation is dwindling and a lot of that is due to concussion worries. The NFL needs to demonstrate that playing football doesn't have to result in such high rates of concussions. (btw I believe concussion rates in soccer are not exactly minuscule). But more importantly they need to invest resources into improved coaching and training how to properly tackle/be tackled at youth levels, better analysis and diagnosis techniques at youth levels, investment into research for better helmets for players of all levels, etc. Not saying the NFL is in any sign of dire straights anytime soon, butt...

Haha. This is absolute bullsh*t, a parroting of the angle the NFL is trying to work now.

If we just teach people a better technique for using their bodies as battering rams, then we'll have done our job to make the sport safe!


As long as football players are smashing into each other at full speed, brain injuries are going to be a major issue. No helmet or technique training is going to change that. In the end, the players who play football take the risk; always have and always will. Football will never be a safe sport, much like boxing, MMA, etc.

I agree that player pensions should be a bigger issue in CBA talks, but the fact of the matter is that everyone knew what they were getting into. Smashing your head into things, hundreds of times per year, for decades, is going to have an affect...

[Slap Shot]

Spot on.

I will say most would likely agree the NFL being the only sport that doesnt guarantee contracts is fairly absurd, especially given the trauma caused to them physically, both short and long term.

What I find sickening is guys like Ditka have to lobby for more assistance for their elderly players. Thats fucking disgusting. The NFL should have the best fucking pension plan ever known to man, period. To me its such an obvious and hugely impactful PR move they could make by solving that problem and showing they give a F about their former players who have been destroyed by the game.

The other component to this is the long play result that the PR you speak of could have all the way down to the parents of kids deciding if their sons should play football or soccer. Youth participation is dwindling and a lot of that is due to concussion worries. The NFL needs to demonstrate that playing football doesn't have to result in such high rates of concussions. (btw I believe concussion rates in soccer are not exactly minuscule). But more importantly they need to invest resources into improved coaching and training how to properly tackle/be tackled at youth levels, better analysis and diagnosis techniques at youth levels, investment into research for better helmets for players of all levels, etc. Not saying the NFL is in any sign of dire straights anytime soon, butt...

Haha. This is absolute bullsh*t, a parroting of the angle the NFL is trying to work now.

If we just teach people a better technique for using their bodies as battering rams, then we'll have done our job to make the sport safe!


As long as football players are smashing into each other at full speed, brain injuries are going to be a major issue. No helmet or technique training is going to change that. In the end, the players who play football take the risk; always have and always will. Football will never be a safe sport, much like boxing, MMA, etc.

I agree that player pensions should be a bigger issue in CBA talks, but the fact of the matter is that everyone knew what they were getting into. Smashing your head into things, hundreds of times per year, for decades, is going to have an affect...

Nowhere did I claim they could ever make it a complete non-issue.

[B-Town]

isn't Elliott a woman beater? If so, then I cheer his hold out.

Yes just like Rooboobretard. God damn, if only he would "hold out".

What is with you and Rube Tube? Neither of you guys can go 5 minutes without mentioning each other in a post. Do you guys need to get a room and bang it out? What's the deal here?

[B-Town]

The other component to this is the long play result that the PR you speak of could have all the way down to the parents of kids deciding if their sons should play football or soccer. Youth participation is dwindling and a lot of that is due to concussion worries. The NFL needs to demonstrate that playing football doesn't have to result in such high rates of concussions. (btw I believe concussion rates in soccer are not exactly minuscule). But more importantly they need to invest resources into improved coaching and training how to properly tackle/be tackled at youth levels, better analysis and diagnosis techniques at youth levels, investment into research for better helmets for players of all levels, etc. Not saying the NFL is in any sign of dire straights anytime soon, butt...

Haha. This is absolute bullsh*t, a parroting of the angle the NFL is trying to work now.

If we just teach people a better technique for using their bodies as battering rams, then we'll have done our job to make the sport safe!


As long as football players are smashing into each other at full speed, brain injuries are going to be a major issue. No helmet or technique training is going to change that. In the end, the players who play football take the risk; always have and always will. Football will never be a safe sport, much like boxing, MMA, etc.

I agree that player pensions should be a bigger issue in CBA talks, but the fact of the matter is that everyone knew what they were getting into. Smashing your head into things, hundreds of times per year, for decades, is going to have an affect...

Nowhere did I claim they could ever make it a complete non-issue.

Well, you didn't say it outright, but you implied it by claiming that the NFL has the responsibility to invest into making better helmets, teaching tackling, etc. If you really think about it, you know as well as I do that those things are nonsense. The game is what it is. The whole "learn from past mistakes and make the game safe" stuff is just corporate CYA jargon.

[Slap Shot]

Haha. This is absolute bullsh*t, a parroting of the angle the NFL is trying to work now.

If we just teach people a better technique for using their bodies as battering rams, then we'll have done our job to make the sport safe!


As long as football players are smashing into each other at full speed, brain injuries are going to be a major issue. No helmet or technique training is going to change that. In the end, the players who play football take the risk; always have and always will. Football will never be a safe sport, much like boxing, MMA, etc.

I agree that player pensions should be a bigger issue in CBA talks, but the fact of the matter is that everyone knew what they were getting into. Smashing your head into things, hundreds of times per year, for decades, is going to have an affect...

Nowhere did I claim they could ever make it a complete non-issue.

Well, you didn't say it outright, but you implied...

No. I said they should make the investment they've been avoiding for far too long. No one should have taken that to imply they could completely solve for it.

[B-Town]

Nowhere did I claim they could ever make it a complete non-issue.

Well, you didn't say it outright, but you implied...

No. I said they should make the investment they've been avoiding for far too long. No one should have taken that to imply they could completely solve for it.

The thing is... they've been doing these things for years. The NFL advertises it with pride. And these changes will not completely solve the issue. You're right. In fact, I'd be surprised if it decreased the head injuries by 1%. That's how much the problem has to do with the nature of the game, and how little it has to do with the helmet or tackling technique.

[hategreenticemase]

No one can tell me that with enough money and commitment to get it done the NFL couldnt develop a super helmet that would at least make significant progress in lessening short term and long term impact.

With the worlds technology where it is, I have to believe a MUCH better helmet is attainable, but the biggest roadblock is cost. Meaning, a $25,000 helmet would be vastly better but obviously completely impractical in every day usage. The point is, the NFL isn't every day usage and could afford millions invested in helmets. I have long thought - why wouldn't you develop a super helmet and pay whatever it costs? The PR and improved relations with players would be worth it alone....

To me, they are more than accountable and rippable for not doing something like the idea I mentioned above and even more so for not making their player pensions so good that no one could possibly ever need to lobby for more assistance for retired players etc. The fact that allow some of these very sad cases and stories to make the light of day is not only embarrassing and pathetic, it's just plain fn stupid as well.

Then again, it's important to remember that Roger goodell is a scumbag.

[B-Town]

No one can tell me that with enough money and commitment to get it done the NFL couldnt develop a super helmet that would at least make significant progress in lessening short term and long term impact.

With the worlds technology where it is, I have to believe a MUCH better helmet is attainable, but the biggest roadblock is cost. Meaning, a $25,000 helmet would be vastly better but obviously completely impractical in every day usage. The point is, the NFL isn't every day usage and could afford millions invested in helmets. I have long thought - why wouldn't you develop a super helmet and pay whatever it costs? The PR and improved relations with players would be worth it alone....

To me, they are more than accountable and rippable for not doing something like the idea I mentioned above and even more so for not making their player pensions so good that no one could possibly ever need to lobby for more assistance for retired players etc. The fact that allow some of these very sad cases and stories to make the light of day is not only embarrassing and pathetic, it's just plain fn stupid as well.

Then again, it's important to remember that Roger goodell is a scumbag.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about how brain injuries work. I would suggest reading up on that before stating that developing a "super helmet" would make a difference.