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1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

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salamander
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1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by salamander »

Courtney Cronin
ESPN Staff Writer

Some takeaways on the Vikings first unofficial depth chart:

1. Chad Beebe is the No. 3 receiver ahead of Laquon Treadwell.

2. Holton Hill, who is suspended for the first 8 games, is listed as the last cornerback on the roster. Aligns with the 3rd team reps he's taken in practice.

3. Kyle Sloter, who has been the 3rd/4th QB in the rotation, is ahead of Jake Browning as QB3. Mike Zimmer said today that Sean Mannion's experience hasn't separated him from the pack as QB2 but noted other qualities like his arm strength that have likely helped him take the lead in the back-up race.

4. Third round pick Alexander Mattison is RB2, Ameer Abdullah RB3 and Mike Boone RB4.

5. Ifeadi Odenigbo has done some really nice work getting himself noticed this offseason and in camp. He's right behind Danielle Hunter at RDE.

6. Jalyn Holmes and Hercules Mata'afa are 2nd and 3rd, respectively, in the rotation at 3-technique DT.

7. Veteran longsnapper Kevin McDermott is ahead of rookie Austin Cutting.

8. Ameer Abdullah is listed as the No. 1 on punt and kickoff return. Jeff Badet's speed is a critical factor in why he's No. 2 at kick returner. Bisi Johnson has gotten reps at KR recently and winds up as No. 3 on the depth chart. Chad Beebe and rookie Dillon Mitchell are 2nd and 3rd on punt return.

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Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Ask Not »

This feels somewhat official.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

I'm not gonna be too happy if Cutting can't beat out McDermott.

There were good players left on the board still in Rd 7, and guys I know specifically we targetted as priority UDFAs that we lost out on because of using a pick on him.
Plus I think there was great trade up options in Rd 5 that I would have liked more than Cameron Smith. They could have used that 7th rd pick to trade up a few spots in the 5th.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Thrillkill »

Calling it now. Beebe is the next Theilen. Hate to say it because I think he can still be helpful but Treadwell gets traded or cut.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by mlhouse »

Oriole81 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:26 pm I'm not gonna be too happy if Cutting can't beat out McDermott.

guys I know specifically we targetted as priority UDFAs that we lost out on because of using a pick on him.
Unless those UDFAs were long snappers, there is absolutely zero logic to your statement. IN fact, one reason why Rick collects late round draft picks and why selecting a LS with a late 7th is a good idea is that NFL teams now have a cap on the signing bonus money they can use to sign UDFA after the draft.

IF the team really wanted a priority signing they either have to use up a lot of the fixed UDFA bonus pool money or guarantee a portion of their contract. For example, Jake Browning only received a $15,000 signing bonus from the pool, but $140,000 of his salary is guaranteed. DE Anree Saint-Amour received a $15,000 signing bonus and $50,000 guaranteed salary.

Browning, in fact, has a much higher level of guaranteed money than any of our multiple 7th rounders and double the total of guaranteed money, $155,000 that the later 7ths got. Kris Boyd has $109,000 in guaranteed money. Dillon Mitchell $80,000. Browning's guaranteed money is at the level of what 6th round picks receive.

They knew they wanted to bring in a LS to challenge for a roster spot, so by drafting one they literally added more flexibility to signing UDFA and potentially saved cap space rather than have to compete in the UDFA market with the fixed signing bonus.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:29 am
Oriole81 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:26 pm I'm not gonna be too happy if Cutting can't beat out McDermott.

guys I know specifically we targetted as priority UDFAs that we lost out on because of using a pick on him.
Unless those UDFAs were long snappers, there is absolutely zero logic to your statement. IN fact, one reason why Rick collects late round draft picks and why selecting a LS with a late 7th is a good idea is that NFL teams now have a cap on the signing bonus money they can use to sign UDFA after the draft.

IF the team really wanted a priority signing they either have to use up a lot of the fixed UDFA bonus pool money or guarantee a portion of their contract. For example, Jake Browning only received a $15,000 signing bonus from the pool, but $140,000 of his salary is guaranteed. DE Anree Saint-Amour received a $15,000 signing bonus and $50,000 guaranteed salary.

Browning, in fact, has a much higher level of guaranteed money than any of our multiple 7th rounders and double the total of guaranteed money, $155,000 that the later 7ths got. Kris Boyd has $109,000 in guaranteed money. Dillon Mitchell $80,000. Browning's guaranteed money is at the level of what 6th round picks receive.

They knew they wanted to bring in a LS to challenge for a roster spot, so by drafting one they literally added more flexibility to signing UDFA and potentially saved cap space rather than have to compete in the UDFA market with the fixed signing bonus.
I feel like your comment would have been better had we had this discussion immediately after the draft, and not now when I specifically said I'd be upset if he couldn't beat out McDermott after the fact. I understand the strategy in theory and it's one thing to bring in competition, but McDermott is still pretty solid and even late 7th rd picks still have value, so if you spend one on a LS you better really like the guy, and not just trying to create competition.
And to take it to the next step, if that 7th rd pick can't even win the job, than you absolutely can question the move because of the resulting missed opportunity.

I know they went hard at OG Beau Benschawel from Wisc after he went undrafted, but he chose to sign with Detroit. Beau had PFF's top run blocking grade of all OL in 2018, but went undrafted because he needs to add strength. He'd be a great PS candidate this year even considering they took 3 OL previously and you greatly increase your chances of getting him to choose your PS if you've had him in camp the whole time.

Plus I think there was missed opportunity to trade up in the 5th, which this pick (plus maybe another 7th) could have been used for. LBs Blake Cashman and Mack Wilson both went within 10 picks of the Cam Smith selection, but also could have moved up earlier in the 5th for CB Amani Oruwariye, who I'm pretty sure it was you that used a 1st rd pick on in the Froob mock.
Deionte Thompson went early in the 5th as well, and seems like he'd have a much better shot of winning the last safety spot than Epps is going to.

I get the logic of Spielman moving down for multiple Day 3 picks, but I don't like missing opportunities in the mid rounds because of it, and I feel like the 5th rd was one of those. That LS selection, which again is only being criticized here in the hypothetical scenario that he doesn't win the job, could have been used to move up for a better player.
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D Wilkins, B Bowen
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Slap Shot »

Do they have anyone in camp to challenge Bailey?
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by mlhouse »

Oriole81 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:39 pm
mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:29 am
Oriole81 wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:26 pm I'm not gonna be too happy if Cutting can't beat out McDermott.

guys I know specifically we targetted as priority UDFAs that we lost out on because of using a pick on him.
Unless those UDFAs were long snappers, there is absolutely zero logic to your statement. IN fact, one reason why Rick collects late round draft picks and why selecting a LS with a late 7th is a good idea is that NFL teams now have a cap on the signing bonus money they can use to sign UDFA after the draft.

IF the team really wanted a priority signing they either have to use up a lot of the fixed UDFA bonus pool money or guarantee a portion of their contract. For example, Jake Browning only received a $15,000 signing bonus from the pool, but $140,000 of his salary is guaranteed. DE Anree Saint-Amour received a $15,000 signing bonus and $50,000 guaranteed salary.

Browning, in fact, has a much higher level of guaranteed money than any of our multiple 7th rounders and double the total of guaranteed money, $155,000 that the later 7ths got. Kris Boyd has $109,000 in guaranteed money. Dillon Mitchell $80,000. Browning's guaranteed money is at the level of what 6th round picks receive.

They knew they wanted to bring in a LS to challenge for a roster spot, so by drafting one they literally added more flexibility to signing UDFA and potentially saved cap space rather than have to compete in the UDFA market with the fixed signing bonus.
I feel like your comment would have been better had we had this discussion immediately after the draft, and not now when I specifically said I'd be upset if he couldn't beat out McDermott after the fact. I understand the strategy in theory and it's one thing to bring in competition, but McDermott is still pretty solid and even late 7th rd picks still have value, so if you spend one on a LS you better really like the guy, and not just trying to create competition.
And to take it to the next step, if that 7th rd pick can't even win the job, than you absolutely can question the move because of the resulting missed opportunity.

I know they went hard at OG Beau Benschawel from Wisc after he went undrafted, but he chose to sign with Detroit. Beau had PFF's top run blocking grade of all OL in 2018, but went undrafted because he needs to add strength. He'd be a great PS candidate this year even considering they took 3 OL previously and you greatly increase your chances of getting him to choose your PS if you've had him in camp the whole time.

Plus I think there was missed opportunity to trade up in the 5th, which this pick (plus maybe another 7th) could have been used for. LBs Blake Cashman and Mack Wilson both went within 10 picks of the Cam Smith selection, but also could have moved up earlier in the 5th for CB Amani Oruwariye, who I'm pretty sure it was you that used a 1st rd pick on in the Froob mock.
Deionte Thompson went early in the 5th as well, and seems like he'd have a much better shot of winning the last safety spot than Epps is going to.

I get the logic of Spielman moving down for multiple Day 3 picks, but I don't like missing opportunities in the mid rounds because of it, and I feel like the 5th rd was one of those. That LS selection, which again is only being criticized here in the hypothetical scenario that he doesn't win the job, could have been used to move up for a better player.
This is what I said on April 28:

"Austin Cutting LS Air Force

I believe this is the first long snapper and first military academy player ever drafted by the Vikings. And, the pick is brilliant conforming to the new bonus pooled UDFA market. Instead of having to outbid the other 31 teams to sign him, drafting him here puts him in a Viking unifrom to start. Assuming he can arrange playing around his military commitment, he is probabl the new long snapper on the team. Good use of a comp pick."

In the end, what this says is that the Vikings simply preferred Cutting to Beau and put a higher priority on him than an offensive lineman. Over time, your preference may be the correct one and it may be the same for the guys your identified trading up for (and some of your choices might also be the wrong ones because that is how it works, you are sometimes right and sometimes wrong on these choices).

I would add that one misconception of Rick Speilman is that he only trades down to acquire late round choices. This is in fact false because he is a value trader who moves both up and down in the draft, and does so in all rounds. I think this Value Based drafting is the best approach.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by DonaldDouchebag »

I'd like to see Eric Wilson make a splash and surpass Gedeon.
Like that, y'all, pop some more shit.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by mlhouse »

DonaldDouchebag wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:10 pm I'd like to see Eric Wilson make a splash and surpass Gedeon.
Linebacker play has such a "role" feature to it that Gedeon and Wilson dont really play the same position. WHile Gedeon plays on the 4-3 defense alignment, when Barr was injured Eric WIlson replaced him. I think Gedeon and WIlson are very valuable back up and special team players, and frankly, I can't believe how far Wilson has come.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:57 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:39 pm
mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:29 am

Unless those UDFAs were long snappers, there is absolutely zero logic to your statement. IN fact, one reason why Rick collects late round draft picks and why selecting a LS with a late 7th is a good idea is that NFL teams now have a cap on the signing bonus money they can use to sign UDFA after the draft.

IF the team really wanted a priority signing they either have to use up a lot of the fixed UDFA bonus pool money or guarantee a portion of their contract. For example, Jake Browning only received a $15,000 signing bonus from the pool, but $140,000 of his salary is guaranteed. DE Anree Saint-Amour received a $15,000 signing bonus and $50,000 guaranteed salary.

Browning, in fact, has a much higher level of guaranteed money than any of our multiple 7th rounders and double the total of guaranteed money, $155,000 that the later 7ths got. Kris Boyd has $109,000 in guaranteed money. Dillon Mitchell $80,000. Browning's guaranteed money is at the level of what 6th round picks receive.

They knew they wanted to bring in a LS to challenge for a roster spot, so by drafting one they literally added more flexibility to signing UDFA and potentially saved cap space rather than have to compete in the UDFA market with the fixed signing bonus.
I feel like your comment would have been better had we had this discussion immediately after the draft, and not now when I specifically said I'd be upset if he couldn't beat out McDermott after the fact. I understand the strategy in theory and it's one thing to bring in competition, but McDermott is still pretty solid and even late 7th rd picks still have value, so if you spend one on a LS you better really like the guy, and not just trying to create competition.
And to take it to the next step, if that 7th rd pick can't even win the job, than you absolutely can question the move because of the resulting missed opportunity.

I know they went hard at OG Beau Benschawel from Wisc after he went undrafted, but he chose to sign with Detroit. Beau had PFF's top run blocking grade of all OL in 2018, but went undrafted because he needs to add strength. He'd be a great PS candidate this year even considering they took 3 OL previously and you greatly increase your chances of getting him to choose your PS if you've had him in camp the whole time.

Plus I think there was missed opportunity to trade up in the 5th, which this pick (plus maybe another 7th) could have been used for. LBs Blake Cashman and Mack Wilson both went within 10 picks of the Cam Smith selection, but also could have moved up earlier in the 5th for CB Amani Oruwariye, who I'm pretty sure it was you that used a 1st rd pick on in the Froob mock.
Deionte Thompson went early in the 5th as well, and seems like he'd have a much better shot of winning the last safety spot than Epps is going to.

I get the logic of Spielman moving down for multiple Day 3 picks, but I don't like missing opportunities in the mid rounds because of it, and I feel like the 5th rd was one of those. That LS selection, which again is only being criticized here in the hypothetical scenario that he doesn't win the job, could have been used to move up for a better player.
This is what I said on April 28:

"Austin Cutting LS Air Force

I believe this is the first long snapper and first military academy player ever drafted by the Vikings. And, the pick is brilliant conforming to the new bonus pooled UDFA market. Instead of having to outbid the other 31 teams to sign him, drafting him here puts him in a Viking unifrom to start. Assuming he can arrange playing around his military commitment, he is probabl the new long snapper on the team. Good use of a comp pick."

In the end, what this says is that the Vikings simply preferred Cutting to Beau and put a higher priority on him than an offensive lineman. Over time, your preference may be the correct one and it may be the same for the guys your identified trading up for (and some of your choices might also be the wrong ones because that is how it works, you are sometimes right and sometimes wrong on these choices).

I would add that one misconception of Rick Speilman is that he only trades down to acquire late round choices. This is in fact false because he is a value trader who moves both up and down in the draft, and does so in all rounds. I think this Value Based drafting is the best approach.
The quote you pulled says it's a good use presuming he wins the job. My comment was in the event that he does not. I know of course that the first depth chart is not representative of who will and often leans towards vets too, so just saying if he doesn't actually win it then it's a big error considering McDermott was pretty solid anyways. They didn't have to force a pick IMO.

And I'm fine with the value based drafting approach in general, but one place it does leave him exposed is in the middle rounds, and I think this year is an example of that and I think it's okay to bring up. I'm fully aware that the Vikes team has better knowledge and is more connected than I am so I'm making this statement only as a rube so I don't need you to point out (esp considering we all do it, yourself including) about how guys I throw out may miss too, but I think there's also enough track record to say that their success with mid round LBs has been pretty mediocre (Gedeon, Brothers, Downs, Lee, Robinson, Watts, Hodges, Mauti, etc.) and Smith's profile from what I have observed doesn't read like a guy with a lot of upside so I think it's fair to say that was "potentially" a missed opportunity...esp considering Cashman and Wilson were available in a trade up and I think they both had much more upside.

Add in the fact that they're one of the best already in the league in getting and developing UDFAs.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by mlhouse »

Oriole81 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:48 pm
The quote you pulled says it's a good use presuming he wins the job. My comment was in the event that he does not. I know of course that the first depth chart is not representative of who will and often leans towards vets too, so just saying if he doesn't actually win it then it's a big error considering McDermott was pretty solid anyways. They didn't have to force a pick IMO.

And I'm fine with the value based drafting approach in general, but one place it does leave him exposed is in the middle rounds, and I think this year is an example of that and I think it's okay to bring up. I'm fully aware that the Vikes team has better knowledge and is more connected than I am so I'm making this statement only as a rube so I don't need you to point out (esp considering we all do it, yourself including) about how guys I throw out may miss too, but I think there's also enough track record to say that their success with mid round LBs has been pretty mediocre (Gedeon, Brothers, Downs, Lee, Robinson, Watts, Hodges, Mauti, etc.) and Smith's profile from what I have observed doesn't read like a guy with a lot of upside so I think it's fair to say that was "potentially" a missed opportunity...esp considering Cashman and Wilson were available in a trade up and I think they both had much more upside.

Add in the fact that they're one of the best already in the league in getting and developing UDFAs.
The quote I pulled was my own statement from 4/28 right after the draft.

I think one of the problems with your analysis of "mid-round" linebackers is that some of them were not mid-round picks.

Gedeon was (4th). Brothers was(5th). HOdges was (4th). Downs, Lee, Robinson, Watts, and Mauti were not mid-rounders and all were 7th round picks so that really doesnt fit your narrative.

I think Cameron Smith was a 5th round value, right were we drafted him. I think Eric WIlson and Ben Gedeon are valuable pieces so that is why I would not trade up for Cashman or Wilson (I am not a big WIlson fan) and I actually was surprised they took Smith. Smith is a guy that I see has some limitations but also some upside. He has some athletic skills, and some athletic deficiencies and good size although I think he looks smalleron the field than his measurables. High football IQ. This was a legitimate pick.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:45 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:48 pm
The quote you pulled says it's a good use presuming he wins the job. My comment was in the event that he does not. I know of course that the first depth chart is not representative of who will and often leans towards vets too, so just saying if he doesn't actually win it then it's a big error considering McDermott was pretty solid anyways. They didn't have to force a pick IMO.

And I'm fine with the value based drafting approach in general, but one place it does leave him exposed is in the middle rounds, and I think this year is an example of that and I think it's okay to bring up. I'm fully aware that the Vikes team has better knowledge and is more connected than I am so I'm making this statement only as a rube so I don't need you to point out (esp considering we all do it, yourself including) about how guys I throw out may miss too, but I think there's also enough track record to say that their success with mid round LBs has been pretty mediocre (Gedeon, Brothers, Downs, Lee, Robinson, Watts, Hodges, Mauti, etc.) and Smith's profile from what I have observed doesn't read like a guy with a lot of upside so I think it's fair to say that was "potentially" a missed opportunity...esp considering Cashman and Wilson were available in a trade up and I think they both had much more upside.

Add in the fact that they're one of the best already in the league in getting and developing UDFAs.
The quote I pulled was my own statement from 4/28 right after the draft.

I think one of the problems with your analysis of "mid-round" linebackers is that some of them were not mid-round picks.

Gedeon was (4th). Brothers was(5th). HOdges was (4th). Downs, Lee, Robinson, Watts, and Mauti were not mid-rounders and all were 7th round picks so that really doesnt fit your narrative.

I think Cameron Smith was a 5th round value, right were we drafted him. I think Eric WIlson and Ben Gedeon are valuable pieces so that is why I would not trade up for Cashman or Wilson (I am not a big WIlson fan) and I actually was surprised they took Smith. Smith is a guy that I see has some limitations but also some upside. He has some athletic skills, and some athletic deficiencies and good size although I think he looks smalleron the field than his measurables. High football IQ. This was a legitimate pick.
Gedeon and Brothers on their own though are just okay and provide more to special teams than they do as actual LB, so that's meh value for a 4th/5th rd pick in any draft, but especially considering we already have 2 studs signed to long term contracts in Barr and Kendricks.
And I like Eric Wilson and Gedeon for the role they're in too so I wasn't saying what I said to take a shot at them, but it was the team itself doing that by taking another mid round LB when we already had 4 decent prospects that we've already invested in still on cheap deals, and we don't really need a 3rd LB that much. The need for that type of player was small.

And when I said trade up for Mack Wilson or Cashman, I only meant it to the extent that they were already taking a LB with that 5th rd pick. I didn't want a LB there either but if we were going to take one, I think it would have been worth it to trade up for the higher rated prospect considering it would only have cost us a 7th rd pick.
I also specifically said though we could have traded up for Amani or Deionte Thompson. There was many other positional options to trade up for that would have fit our more pressing needs.
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A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:45 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:48 pm
The quote you pulled says it's a good use presuming he wins the job. My comment was in the event that he does not. I know of course that the first depth chart is not representative of who will and often leans towards vets too, so just saying if he doesn't actually win it then it's a big error considering McDermott was pretty solid anyways. They didn't have to force a pick IMO.

And I'm fine with the value based drafting approach in general, but one place it does leave him exposed is in the middle rounds, and I think this year is an example of that and I think it's okay to bring up. I'm fully aware that the Vikes team has better knowledge and is more connected than I am so I'm making this statement only as a rube so I don't need you to point out (esp considering we all do it, yourself including) about how guys I throw out may miss too, but I think there's also enough track record to say that their success with mid round LBs has been pretty mediocre (Gedeon, Brothers, Downs, Lee, Robinson, Watts, Hodges, Mauti, etc.) and Smith's profile from what I have observed doesn't read like a guy with a lot of upside so I think it's fair to say that was "potentially" a missed opportunity...esp considering Cashman and Wilson were available in a trade up and I think they both had much more upside.

Add in the fact that they're one of the best already in the league in getting and developing UDFAs.
The quote I pulled was my own statement from 4/28 right after the draft.

I think one of the problems with your analysis of "mid-round" linebackers is that some of them were not mid-round picks.

Gedeon was (4th). Brothers was(5th). HOdges was (4th). Downs, Lee, Robinson, Watts, and Mauti were not mid-rounders and all were 7th round picks so that really doesnt fit your narrative.

I think Cameron Smith was a 5th round value, right were we drafted him. I think Eric WIlson and Ben Gedeon are valuable pieces so that is why I would not trade up for Cashman or Wilson (I am not a big WIlson fan) and I actually was surprised they took Smith. Smith is a guy that I see has some limitations but also some upside. He has some athletic skills, and some athletic deficiencies and good size although I think he looks smalleron the field than his measurables. High football IQ. This was a legitimate pick.
and did you really go back and pull a quote from yourself and try to pass it off as authentic draft commentary?
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Obi-Wan »

Thrillkill wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:36 pm Calling it now. Beebe is the next Theilen. Hate to say it because I think he can still be helpful but Treadwell gets traded or cut.
He is too slow, short, and small. He is quick though. Thielen is fast and has decent height.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Rollie »

Chad Beebe is the perfect slot receiver!! :yes:
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by RubeTube »

Thrillkill wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:36 pm Calling it now. Beebe is the next Theilen. Hate to say it because I think he can still be helpful but Treadwell gets traded or cut.
Good lord.

Also, no one is trading anything for Treadwell.
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mlhouse
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by mlhouse »

Oriole81 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:25 pm

and did you really go back and pull a quote from yourself and try to pass it off as authentic draft commentary?
You stated in your original post that the comments I made regarding the UDFA bonus pool money would be relevant if it was discussed around the time of the draft. I discussed around the time of the draft, and as far as "authentic", it is a very authentic take on this selection.

By acquiring several later round picks in an era of fixed UDFA signing bonus the Vikings put themselves in a better comeptitive position in acquiring from this pool of players without having to compete for the services of these players with the other 31 teams.

IT is a fact. It is probably something the NFL GMs have figured out and I doubt very many "authentic" draft commentators have even mentioned it. I certainly have never seen anyone make these very factual observations, have you? I doubt it.
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bubu dubu.
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by bubu dubu. »

Slap Shot wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:20 pm Do they have anyone in camp to challenge Bailey?
I'll be there a few days.
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DonaldDouchebag
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by DonaldDouchebag »

Heheh. I love the idea that a team would trade for Treadwell. :lol:
Like that, y'all, pop some more shit.
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Tmoney
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Tmoney »

I think Beebe can take the place of wright.

He may have no more than 3 or 4 catches a game for 35 yards. But each catch went for a first down on 3rd and extended a scoring drive.
Oriole81
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:51 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:25 pm

and did you really go back and pull a quote from yourself and try to pass it off as authentic draft commentary?
You stated in your original post that the comments I made regarding the UDFA bonus pool money would be relevant if it was discussed around the time of the draft. I discussed around the time of the draft, and as far as "authentic", it is a very authentic take on this selection.

By acquiring several later round picks in an era of fixed UDFA signing bonus the Vikings put themselves in a better comeptitive position in acquiring from this pool of players without having to compete for the services of these players with the other 31 teams.

IT is a fact. It is probably something the NFL GMs have figured out and I doubt very many "authentic" draft commentators have even mentioned it. I certainly have never seen anyone make these very factual observations, have you? I doubt it.
As always, you seem to be missing my point. My whole comment way back at the beginning, was specifically regarding Cutting actually winning the job. If he doesn't, then that whole draft process you felt the need to bring up (and spend your own time pulling back quotes that you wrote for some reason) is overthinking of the process towards a position that isn't that important in the grand scheme of things and for a prospect who obviously wasn't that good.
Again, hypothetical scenario. All of what you said is voided if he doesn't actually doesn't win the job.

Regarding the late round picks, you're again missing my point. I get it and for the most part I'm okay with it; I was never saying from a strategy standpoint that it was wrong, so again don't need the lecture about the whys.
But when they acquired this 5th rd pick in one of the 3rd rd trade downs, they sent out one of their 6th rd picks, so they obviously wanted to be in this 5th rd range and not just stockpile more 6th/7th rd picks.
There was great value in the 5th rd, but I don't think they got it. For whatever reason the Day 3 LB market was diminished, and there was some higher rated prospects like Cashman, Mack Wilson, Vosean Joseph, Ben Burr-Kirven, Justin Hollins. Mack Wilson specifically could have gone Day 2 and nobody would have batted an eye, but because he may only be a 2 down MLB, he got devalued. But he's a very good 2 down MLB and with him we could have him as base MLB and use Kendricks as WLB, which is a stronger unit than using Gedeon as base.

That's well worth an extra 7th rd pick when we've already traded down multiple times already. But instead we seemed to get the last LB of the run, who doesn't seem to have near the ceiling that some taken closely before do, and who is just going to take a job from someone good already on the roster like Brothers or Downs. Someone can be okay with a trade down strategy while at the same time comment on a missed opportunity.

And again, this convo doesn't have to be about LBs because there were many other good positions on the board. Are you really saying you wouldn't have given up an extra pick to move up for Amani Oruwariye considering you took him in the Froob mock with a first round pick?
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
FLYING_FINN'SSIDEKICK
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by FLYING_FINN'SSIDEKICK »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:21 pm
Thrillkill wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:36 pm Calling it now. Beebe is the next Theilen. Hate to say it because I think he can still be helpful but Treadwell gets traded or cut.
Good lord.

Also, no one is trading anything for Treadwell.
hahaha Yep Rube tube is right!
mlhouse
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by mlhouse »

Oriole81 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:55 am
mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:51 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:25 pm

and did you really go back and pull a quote from yourself and try to pass it off as authentic draft commentary?
You stated in your original post that the comments I made regarding the UDFA bonus pool money would be relevant if it was discussed around the time of the draft. I discussed around the time of the draft, and as far as "authentic", it is a very authentic take on this selection.

By acquiring several later round picks in an era of fixed UDFA signing bonus the Vikings put themselves in a better comeptitive position in acquiring from this pool of players without having to compete for the services of these players with the other 31 teams.

IT is a fact. It is probably something the NFL GMs have figured out and I doubt very many "authentic" draft commentators have even mentioned it. I certainly have never seen anyone make these very factual observations, have you? I doubt it.
As always, you seem to be missing my point. My whole comment way back at the beginning, was specifically regarding Cutting actually winning the job. If he doesn't, then that whole draft process you felt the need to bring up (and spend your own time pulling back quotes that you wrote for some reason) is overthinking of the process towards a position that isn't that important in the grand scheme of things and for a prospect who obviously wasn't that good.
Again, hypothetical scenario. All of what you said is voided if he doesn't actually doesn't win the job.

Regarding the late round picks, you're again missing my point. I get it and for the most part I'm okay with it; I was never saying from a strategy standpoint that it was wrong, so again don't need the lecture about the whys.
But when they acquired this 5th rd pick in one of the 3rd rd trade downs, they sent out one of their 6th rd picks, so they obviously wanted to be in this 5th rd range and not just stockpile more 6th/7th rd picks.
There was great value in the 5th rd, but I don't think they got it. For whatever reason the Day 3 LB market was diminished, and there was some higher rated prospects like Cashman, Mack Wilson, Vosean Joseph, Ben Burr-Kirven, Justin Hollins. Mack Wilson specifically could have gone Day 2 and nobody would have batted an eye, but because he may only be a 2 down MLB, he got devalued. But he's a very good 2 down MLB and with him we could have him as base MLB and use Kendricks as WLB, which is a stronger unit than using Gedeon as base.

That's well worth an extra 7th rd pick when we've already traded down multiple times already. But instead we seemed to get the last LB of the run, who doesn't seem to have near the ceiling that some taken closely before do, and who is just going to take a job from someone good already on the roster like Brothers or Downs. Someone can be okay with a trade down strategy while at the same time comment on a missed opportunity.

And again, this convo doesn't have to be about LBs because there were many other good positions on the board. Are you really saying you wouldn't have given up an extra pick to move up for Amani Oruwariye considering you took him in the Froob mock with a first round pick?
1. If Cutting doesnt win the job then a 7th round draft pick was lost. Big deal.
2. Again, obviously the Vikings FO thought differently than you on the 5th round pick. SOmetimes these guys are wrong and you are right, but that is just the way it was. I personally do not see much difference in the LBs you are mentioning and Cameron Smith. The only LB of that group I would take over Smith was Cashman.
3. With Oruariye I am not sure why he fell so far. Sometimes the NFL scouts have information that is not available to the general public. And although I "scout" these players, scouting a DB with the tools available to an amateur is a lot harder to do because so much of the play isn't visible. I don;t have access to all-22 video so on DBs and WRs I am not as confident about.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Ash Ketchum »

Spot on.

Any "scouting" any Rube here is doing is not scouting.

You're watching highlights and a limited amount of game film that is easily available to the average person and doing the best you can to come to a conclusion on those players.

Actual scouts and coaches get to see the players in ways we can't, and that usually makes a huge difference.
mlhouse
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by mlhouse »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:29 pm Spot on.

Any "scouting" any Rube here is doing is not scouting.

You're watching highlights and a limited amount of game film that is easily available to the average person and doing the best you can to come to a conclusion on those players.

Actual scouts and coaches get to see the players in ways we can't, and that usually makes a huge difference.
1. I do not watch highlights at all. Most "highlights" of college players are from mismatched games.

2. IT is scouting. You can say what you want, but it is still scouting. Pro scouts have better tools and inside information thta they get to weigh.
Oriole81
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

mlhouse wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:18 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:55 am
mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:51 pm

You stated in your original post that the comments I made regarding the UDFA bonus pool money would be relevant if it was discussed around the time of the draft. I discussed around the time of the draft, and as far as "authentic", it is a very authentic take on this selection.

By acquiring several later round picks in an era of fixed UDFA signing bonus the Vikings put themselves in a better comeptitive position in acquiring from this pool of players without having to compete for the services of these players with the other 31 teams.

IT is a fact. It is probably something the NFL GMs have figured out and I doubt very many "authentic" draft commentators have even mentioned it. I certainly have never seen anyone make these very factual observations, have you? I doubt it.
As always, you seem to be missing my point. My whole comment way back at the beginning, was specifically regarding Cutting actually winning the job. If he doesn't, then that whole draft process you felt the need to bring up (and spend your own time pulling back quotes that you wrote for some reason) is overthinking of the process towards a position that isn't that important in the grand scheme of things and for a prospect who obviously wasn't that good.
Again, hypothetical scenario. All of what you said is voided if he doesn't actually doesn't win the job.

Regarding the late round picks, you're again missing my point. I get it and for the most part I'm okay with it; I was never saying from a strategy standpoint that it was wrong, so again don't need the lecture about the whys.
But when they acquired this 5th rd pick in one of the 3rd rd trade downs, they sent out one of their 6th rd picks, so they obviously wanted to be in this 5th rd range and not just stockpile more 6th/7th rd picks.
There was great value in the 5th rd, but I don't think they got it. For whatever reason the Day 3 LB market was diminished, and there was some higher rated prospects like Cashman, Mack Wilson, Vosean Joseph, Ben Burr-Kirven, Justin Hollins. Mack Wilson specifically could have gone Day 2 and nobody would have batted an eye, but because he may only be a 2 down MLB, he got devalued. But he's a very good 2 down MLB and with him we could have him as base MLB and use Kendricks as WLB, which is a stronger unit than using Gedeon as base.

That's well worth an extra 7th rd pick when we've already traded down multiple times already. But instead we seemed to get the last LB of the run, who doesn't seem to have near the ceiling that some taken closely before do, and who is just going to take a job from someone good already on the roster like Brothers or Downs. Someone can be okay with a trade down strategy while at the same time comment on a missed opportunity.

And again, this convo doesn't have I said to be about LBs because there were many other good positions on the board. Are you really saying you wouldn't have given up an extra pick to move up for Amani Oruwariye considering you took him in the Froob mock with a first round pick?
1. If Cutting doesnt win the job then a 7th round draft pick was lost. Big deal.
2. Again, obviously the Vikings FO thought differently than you on the 5th round pick. SOmetimes these guys are wrong and you are right, but that is just the way it was. I personally do not see much difference in the LBs you are mentioning and Cameron Smith. The only LB of that group I would take over Smith was Cashman.
3. With Oruuariye I am not sure why he fell so far. Sometimes the NFL scouts have information that is not available to the general public. And although I "scout" these players, scouting a DB with the tools available to an amateur is a lot harder to do because so much of the play isn't visible. I don;t have access to all-22 video so on DBs and WRs I am not as confident about.
I wrote above in this specific conversation, and I've always contended on here, that I am just a rube and do not have near the access to the information that professional scouts and management have, so no need to reiterate that on me. I was just hoping that we could have an honest conversation after everyone fully acknowledged our own shortcomings, and talk about the performance of mgmt knowing full well that they still are better than us and that our comments are only meant for entertainment purposes on this site that we all know will not actually affect anything.

With that behind us, I think that if the team actively gets cute spending a pick on a position that is almost universally not drafted and that guy doesn't even win the job, I do think it's a big missed opportunity...because it cost us the opportunities that I actively brought up. I am aware that my opinion ultimately means nothing and that it's not going to get to Spielman even if I'm right, but why do any of us go on this site at all if every time we say something the auto response back is that they're a professional and are better? Let's just talk amongst ourselves like always.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
Phrooster
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Phrooster »

Thrillkill wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:36 pm Calling it now. Beebe is the next Theilen. Hate to say it because I think he can still be helpful but Treadwell gets traded or cut.
Yes bust
Oriole81
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Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:29 pm Spot on.

Any "scouting" any Rube here is doing is not scouting.

You're watching highlights and a limited amount of game film that is easily available to the average person and doing the best you can to come to a conclusion on those players.

Actual scouts and coaches get to see the players in ways we can't, and that usually makes a huge difference.
Of course, but with that in mind, we have 2 stud LBs on long term deals already, 3 good drafted players still on their rookie deals in Brothers, Gedeon, Downs and a pretty good UDFA in Wilson.

Now I know that the professionals have far more access to data than I do on Cameron Smith so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I don't think Smith is more than a utility LB and special teams player, and considering that's the return we've gotten recently on mid round LBs, I think it's reasonable to make a connection between the projections of Smith and what we've gotten recently out of similarly drafted players.

Using historical data for our team as well as this one individual player's projection.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
Oriole81
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: 1st unofficial depth chart: Chad Beebe is #3 WR (ahead of Treadwell)

Post by Oriole81 »

mlhouse wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:18 pm
Oriole81 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:55 am
mlhouse wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:51 pm

You stated in your original post that the comments I made regarding the UDFA bonus pool money would be relevant if it was discussed around the time of the draft. I discussed around the time of the draft, and as far as "authentic", it is a very authentic take on this selection.

By acquiring several later round picks in an era of fixed UDFA signing bonus the Vikings put themselves in a better comeptitive position in acquiring from this pool of players without having to compete for the services of these players with the other 31 teams.

IT is a fact. It is probably something the NFL GMs have figured out and I doubt very many "authentic" draft commentators have even mentioned it. I certainly have never seen anyone make these very factual observations, have you? I doubt it.
As always, you seem to be missing my point. My whole comment way back at the beginning, was specifically regarding Cutting actually winning the job. If he doesn't, then that whole draft process you felt the need to bring up (and spend your own time pulling back quotes that you wrote for some reason) is overthinking of the process towards a position that isn't that important in the grand scheme of things and for a prospect who obviously wasn't that good.
Again, hypothetical scenario. All of what you said is voided if he doesn't actually doesn't win the job.

Regarding the late round picks, you're again missing my point. I get it and for the most part I'm okay with it; I was never saying from a strategy standpoint that it was wrong, so again don't need the lecture about the whys.
But when they acquired this 5th rd pick in one of the 3rd rd trade downs, they sent out one of their 6th rd picks, so they obviously wanted to be in this 5th rd range and not just stockpile more 6th/7th rd picks.
There was great value in the 5th rd, but I don't think they got it. For whatever reason the Day 3 LB market was diminished, and there was some higher rated prospects like Cashman, Mack Wilson, Vosean Joseph, Ben Burr-Kirven, Justin Hollins. Mack Wilson specifically could have gone Day 2 and nobody would have batted an eye, but because he may only be a 2 down MLB, he got devalued. But he's a very good 2 down MLB and with him we could have him as base MLB and use Kendricks as WLB, which is a stronger unit than using Gedeon as base.

That's well worth an extra 7th rd pick when we've already traded down multiple times already. But instead we seemed to get the last LB of the run, who doesn't seem to have near the ceiling that some taken closely before do, and who is just going to take a job from someone good already on the roster like Brothers or Downs. Someone can be okay with a trade down strategy while at the same time comment on a missed opportunity.

And again, this convo doesn't have to be about LBs because there were many other good positions on the board. Are you really saying you wouldn't have given up an extra pick to move up for Amani Oruwariye considering you took him in the Froob mock with a first round pick?
1. If Cutting doesnt win the job then a 7th round draft pick was lost. Big deal.
2. Again, obviously the Vikings FO thought differently than you on the 5th round pick. SOmetimes these guys are wrong and you are right, but that is just the way it was. I personally do not see much difference in the LBs you are mentioning and Cameron Smith. The only LB of that group I would take over Smith was Cashman.
3. With Oruariye I am not sure why he fell so far. Sometimes the NFL scouts have information that is not available to the general public. And although I "scout" these players, scouting a DB with the tools available to an amateur is a lot harder to do because so much of the play isn't visible. I don;t have access to all-22 video so on DBs and WRs I am not as confident about.
And now that I think about, wasn’t it you the day after the draft leading the “I would have traded down in Rd 1” charge while it was all of us saying “they have more access than we do so they must really like Bradbury?”

I’m pretty sure you also said you would pull the trigger on Jawaan Taylor in Rd1 even though no other GM was willing to touch him with fear of the unknown.

Just ironic that it’s now you leading the other side and bowing to their expertise.
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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