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One last move you'd like to see?

A place to discuss the MN Vikings
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Ash Ketchum
Posts: 7922
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: One last move you'd like to see?

Post by Ash Ketchum »

mlhouse wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:52 pm
Ash Ketchum wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:47 pm
mlhouse wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:33 pm
But, Thielen is too valuable of a receiver to put in the normal slot position.
Preposterous. Part of the value in having Thielen on the team is that he can produce from multiple positions, including the slot.

Thielen has feasted on opposing nickel backs for the past two seasons.

You can do so much with him from the slot. The “V” route, where Thielen fakes like he’s going to run a deep over route but then stops and sprints to the sideline on a corner route is a staple in this offense. He is excellent at whip routes, which is the kind of thing you’re talking about with traditional slot WRs.

The idea that we’re somehow wasting Thielen by not playing him on the outside 100% of the time is absolutely wrong because, again, a huge part of what makes Thielen so good is that you can easily move him around.
Well, that is the beauty of the Z receiver who is lined up off the line. YOu can position him in a variety of positions and motions, and run an entire route tree to attack the defense. Where the Vikings offense bogged down was they rolled the defense up on Thielen and Diggs, and the Vikings did not have the counter to take advantage. Putting a true slot receiver on the field as part of the standard offense could potentially be the difference maker. The prototypical slot receiver is more quick than fast, and has the entire change of direction routes as part of the combination. Top level slot receivers can turn their routes upfield too.

Working with Diggs, Thielen, and Smith, a true slot receiver will be a huge gift to Cousins.
Yeah, I get all that, but my point is that Thielen IS that player from the slot PLUS he’s good on the outside as well.

You’re either suggesting that the offense “bogged down” because (A) we didn’t have competent production from the slot position or (B) Thielen was playing there out of necessity and you prefer for him to be a full-time outside WR like Diggs.

I disagree on both A and B. Thielen is excellent out of the slot, and has been for years now. The skills you’re talking about that your new slot WR would possess, Thielen can already do that. In fact, the profile of the traditional slot WR isn’t even all that hard to find compared to well-rounded WRs.

Someone like Andy Isabella was someone I wanted them to prioritize because, like Thielen, he’s more than a slot guy. He has the pure long speed to be another interchangeable cog for this passing game. Alas.
Hector
Posts: 3194
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:06 am

Re: One last move you'd like to see?

Post by Hector »

Sarge wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:40 am Gotta have that one token "project guy" in camp. A Babatunde Aiyegbusi, a Moritz Bohringer, a Todd Lowber. Some guy who played 2 years of High School ball, then joined the French Foreign Legion for a stint, then played intramural lacrosse at Colgate or some shit. Untapped Potential Upside Guy.
Does Hercules qualify for that role or is he too much of a known trajectory guy?
mlhouse
Posts: 24752
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: One last move you'd like to see?

Post by mlhouse »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:12 pm

Yeah, I get all that, but my point is that Thielen IS that player from the slot PLUS he’s good on the outside as well.

You’re either suggesting that the offense “bogged down” because (A) we didn’t have competent production from the slot position or (B) Thielen was playing there out of necessity and you prefer for him to be a full-time outside WR like Diggs.

I disagree on both A and B. Thielen is excellent out of the slot, and has been for years now. The skills you’re talking about that your new slot WR would possess, Thielen can already do that. In fact, the profile of the traditional slot WR isn’t even all that hard to find compared to well-rounded WRs.

Someone like Andy Isabella was someone I wanted them to prioritize because, like Thielen, he’s more than a slot guy. He has the pure long speed to be another interchangeable cog for this passing game. Alas.
1. I agree that it should be easier to get a prototypical slot receiver over a "well rounded WR" which is the very reason I want a good slot receiver. It is a money ball investment were the value of the player is enhanced because of the fit to the needed role.

2. Your statements above basically confirms the existence of a "traditinal slot receiver".

3. While I still think getting a slot receiver is a the best complement to Thielen and Diggs, and is still a good investment of money and assets, the NFL in the last offseason free agency really recognized the value of the available slot receivers who signed significant contracts.

4. I doubt that you and others actually have accurate information on how much Thielen played in the slot, the fact is the formation does not define the role. It also was a function of our previous (and current?) 3rd WR was Treadwell who lined up on the outside.

5. The other error you make is that playing Thielen away from a "traditional well rounded WR" is a limitation on his role.

6. The VIkings should use a slot receiver in their base offense and such a personnel group should run a vast majority of their offense. The slot route tree with a receiver who can run it is a critical enhancement to modern passing offenses. That route tree perfectly complements the two prime receivers and tight end, and if you have a solid receiver out of the backfield, such a passing offense puts lots of pressure on any defense. The one really valuable aspect of the slot receiver is that in hot routes they are almost always going to be an option.
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