For all you dummies who pretend PFF has anymore credibility assessing football talent than my mailman does, good luck defending this one. It really doesn't get much better than this.
PFF via ESPN: Arguably Minnesota’s best defensive player last season, Harris made his biggest impact in coverage, where he saw just 13 targeted passes. Still, he recorded three interceptions and two additional pass breakups with a long reception of just 18 yards. He’s on the rise, and the Vikings saw enough out of him to let Andrew Sendejo walk to the Eagles this offseason
I’m not saying they should be the gospel of football, but they don’t take into account players’ reputations, so while I don’t think Harris is actually a better player than Harrison Smith or Xavier Rhodes, when you consider that Griffen, Smith, Rhodes and Joseph all had what we would consider “down years” for them, it isn’t as crazy as you’re making it out to be.
twgerber wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:26 am
Who do you think was their best D player - last year?
Harris had a quiet good year tbh! Harris wasn't the best player but he was definitely one of the more efficient players without a doubt.
Gotta give the nod to Hunter though, for sure.
I wouldn't pick him as the best player on D last year either myself but he was up there and most folks don't realize it. I think that PFF was partly last year and partly his potential for this upcoming year.
hategreenticemase wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:46 pm
For all you dummies who pretend PFF has anymore credibility assessing football talent than my mailman does, good luck defending this one. It really doesn't get much better than this.
PFF via ESPN: Arguably Minnesota’s best defensive player last season, Harris made his biggest impact in coverage, where he saw just 13 targeted passes. Still, he recorded three interceptions and two additional pass breakups with a long reception of just 18 yards. He’s on the rise, and the Vikings saw enough out of him to let Andrew Sendejo walk to the Eagles this offseason
This is like when they had Erin Henderson as the best LB in the league. How much teams will pay him as a FA will show his true value.
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:21 pm
I wouldn't expect a knuckle dragger like you to get it.
Your version or analytics is 2+2=3
You know, it's not only Unsurprising it's to be expected that the village idiot would come in here and defend the indefensible. He is a retarded monkey, but what's the rest of you dummies excuse? Good God, hilarious. Are you kidding me with some of the posts???
There is no context issue, no "hey no stats are perfect", no anything to remotely spin something as fucking moronic as asserting Anthony Fn Harris was our best Def player or even among our best. There is no stat, no analytic, nor any reasonable way of measuring anything to conclude something that plain strange (and of course asinine)
hategreenticemase wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:46 pm
For all you dummies who pretend PFF has anymore credibility assessing football talent than my mailman does, good luck defending this one. It really doesn't get much better than this.
PFF via ESPN: Arguably Minnesota’s best defensive player last season, Harris made his biggest impact in coverage, where he saw just 13 targeted passes. Still, he recorded three interceptions and two additional pass breakups with a long reception of just 18 yards. He’s on the rise, and the Vikings saw enough out of him to let Andrew Sendejo walk to the Eagles this offseason
This is like when they had Erin Henderson as the best LB in the league. How much teams will pay him as a FA will show his true value.
Wait, I must have missed this. Are you being serious? They didn't really ever rate him too anything in league (except may "best guy named Erin") right?
Dont guys like Barr, sacrifice their personal stats (and coincidentally PFF grades) to make the entire defensive unit execute better, resulting in guys like Harris having better stats (and PFF grades)?
If so, what does that mean? What algorithm has that data to which we can pick at and dissect?
I think about this, and in turn am unable to rely on PFF for true player diagnostics. They are missing vital information.
Trees Make Great Neighbors
Sir Cort Godfrey of the Nessie Alliance summoned the help of Scotland's local wizards to cast a protective spell over the lake for the peaceful existence of our underwater ally.
Tommy_Hawk wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:47 am
Dont guys like Barr, sacrifice their personal stats (and coincidentally PFF grades) to make the entire defensive unit execute better, resulting in guys like Harris having better stats (and PFF grades)?
If so, what does that mean? What algorithm has that data to which we can pick at and dissect?
I think about this, and in turn am unable to rely on PFF for true player diagnostics. They are missing vital information.
If you can take their input knowing there are flaws and learn to utlize them more for some positions than others then maybe you can see the value in stats. Stats are always flawed but at least someone out there is attempting to compile better stats like baseball has.
Otherwise we are stuck with purely "I go by what I see" which is even more flawed...
Tommy_Hawk wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:47 am
Dont guys like Barr, sacrifice their personal stats (and coincidentally PFF grades) to make the entire defensive unit execute better, resulting in guys like Harris having better stats (and PFF grades)?
If so, what does that mean? What algorithm has that data to which we can pick at and dissect?
I think about this, and in turn am unable to rely on PFF for true player diagnostics. They are missing vital information.
If you can take their input knowing there are flaws and learn to utlize them more for some positions than others then maybe you can see the value in stats. Stats are always flawed but at least someone out there is attempting to compile better stats like baseball has.
Otherwise we are stuck with purely "I go by what I see" which is even more flawed...
Tommy_Hawk wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:47 am
Dont guys like Barr, sacrifice their personal stats (and coincidentally PFF grades) to make the entire defensive unit execute better, resulting in guys like Harris having better stats (and PFF grades)?
If so, what does that mean? What algorithm has that data to which we can pick at and dissect?
I think about this, and in turn am unable to rely on PFF for true player diagnostics. They are missing vital information.
I think PFF probably uses more comprehensive info than anyone to come up with their ratings. Sure, they don't account for everything, but I think they generally give you a better picture than most.
BTW, I love the Barr throw in. In a league where seemingly every QB is surpassing 4,000 yards, it's imperative to have an SLB to set the edge, be a below average cover guy, and play to avoid contact for several games per year. lulz
Tommy_Hawk wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:47 am
Dont guys like Barr, sacrifice their personal stats (and coincidentally PFF grades) to make the entire defensive unit execute better, resulting in guys like Harris having better stats (and PFF grades)?
If so, what does that mean? What algorithm has that data to which we can pick at and dissect?
I think about this, and in turn am unable to rely on PFF for true player diagnostics. They are missing vital information.
I think PFF probably uses more comprehensive info than anyone to come up with their ratings. Sure, they don't account for everything, but I think they generally give you a better picture than most.
BTW, I love the Barr throw in. In a league where seemingly every QB is surpassing 4,000 yards, it's imperative to have an SLB to set the edge, be a below average cover guy, and play to avoid contact for several games per year. lulz
I threw Barr's name in there because he was advertised during free agency as "the most important player on our defense", because "he does so much more than just compile stats".
If you had better comprehension you'd understand he was used as an example for the PFF stats, and that it wasn't about him per se.
Trees Make Great Neighbors
Sir Cort Godfrey of the Nessie Alliance summoned the help of Scotland's local wizards to cast a protective spell over the lake for the peaceful existence of our underwater ally.
Tommy_Hawk wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:47 am
Dont guys like Barr, sacrifice their personal stats (and coincidentally PFF grades) to make the entire defensive unit execute better, resulting in guys like Harris having better stats (and PFF grades)?
If so, what does that mean? What algorithm has that data to which we can pick at and dissect?
I think about this, and in turn am unable to rely on PFF for true player diagnostics. They are missing vital information.
I think PFF probably uses more comprehensive info than anyone to come up with their ratings. Sure, they don't account for everything, but I think they generally give you a better picture than most.
BTW, I love the Barr throw in. In a league where seemingly every QB is surpassing 4,000 yards, it's imperative to have an SLB to set the edge, be a below average cover guy, and play to avoid contact for several games per year. lulz
I threw Barr's name in there because he was advertised during free agency as "the most important player on our defense", because "he does so much more than just compile stats".
If you had better comprehension you'd understand he was used as an example for the PFF stats, and that it wasn't about him per se.
I fully understand why you threw Barr's name in. You're one of the guys that tried to justify his new, bloated contract by claiming that he's the lynch pin, when in reality, Zim just has a boner for him. PFF's comprehensive rating system spits out a number for Barr that you don't like, thus, it has to be trash!
I think PFF probably uses more comprehensive info than anyone to come up with their ratings. Sure, they don't account for everything, but I think they generally give you a better picture than most.
BTW, I love the Barr throw in. In a league where seemingly every QB is surpassing 4,000 yards, it's imperative to have an SLB to set the edge, be a below average cover guy, and play to avoid contact for several games per year. lulz
I threw Barr's name in there because he was advertised during free agency as "the most important player on our defense", because "he does so much more than just compile stats".
If you had better comprehension you'd understand he was used as an example for the PFF stats, and that it wasn't about him per se.
I fully understand why you threw Barr's name in. You're one of the guys that tried to justify his new, bloated contract by claiming that he's the lynch pin, when in reality, Zim just has a boner for him. PFF's comprehensive rating system spits out a number for Barr that you don't like, thus, it has to be trash!
I said the Vikings could put Kearse in to replace Barr. It doesn't really matter though. PFF is flawed, but does allow room for talking points when it supports your argument.
Trees Make Great Neighbors
Sir Cort Godfrey of the Nessie Alliance summoned the help of Scotland's local wizards to cast a protective spell over the lake for the peaceful existence of our underwater ally.
Tommy_Hawk wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:47 am
Dont guys like Barr, sacrifice their personal stats (and coincidentally PFF grades) to make the entire defensive unit execute better, resulting in guys like Harris having better stats (and PFF grades)?
If so, what does that mean? What algorithm has that data to which we can pick at and dissect?
I think about this, and in turn am unable to rely on PFF for true player diagnostics. They are missing vital information.
If you can take their input knowing there are flaws and learn to utlize them more for some positions than others then maybe you can see the value in stats. Stats are always flawed but at least someone out there is attempting to compile better stats like baseball has.
Otherwise we are stuck with purely "I go by what I see" which is even more flawed...
Flaws? Good Lord.
So stats have to be perfect and not open to interpretation. Gotcha.
silverjoel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:47 pm
Any rating system that has Rhodes as the 101st best CB of 2018 has got to be correct...
Everyone knows that Rhodes is only the 4th best CB on any given team...
This is not the correct interpretation. The right takeaway is that Rhodes played much of the season injured and had a bad year.
Well, the first line is directly what PFF states, in a facetious way. The second line is being purely facetious, with a gross oversimplification.
Rhodes did have a "down" year. There's no way that 100 CBs (and just CBs, not all DBs) had a better 2018 than Rhodes. There's what 5-6 CBs per team? Assuming that, there's somewhere between 160-192 CBs in the NFL any given year, such as 2018. Apparently, most of those CBs had better years than Rhodes.
Now keep me in mind that the 2018 Vikings defense was one of the best against the pass (3rd fewest total passing yards, 6th fewest YPA, least amount of passing TDs, 4th lowest passer rating...).
If you can take their input knowing there are flaws and learn to utlize them more for some positions than others then maybe you can see the value in stats. Stats are always flawed but at least someone out there is attempting to compile better stats like baseball has.
Otherwise we are stuck with purely "I go by what I see" which is even more flawed...
Flaws? Good Lord.
So stats have to be perfect and not open to interpretation. Gotcha.
Yeah that's what I said.
It's called using your brain and understanding utter fucking nonsense when you see it. Like say, Andrew Sendejo was the 4th best player on roster one year. Or Rhodes was behind 100 other God damn corners. Or Erin Henderson - I can't even type that one with a straight face. Or the silliness of Harris last season was their best D player.
There is no interpretation, no measurable, no "have to consider context of the stat" to remotely rationalize any of those absurd ratings. They are flat out nonsense and contrived silliness. The point being, with so many preposterous examples like that it completely shatters any credibility of any validity that some of their other "ratings" may appear to have. Meaning it ain't just a couple off the wall ratings/conclusions that make a mofo question things, it's a series of utterly asinine example - above is just 4 recent ones. Like I have said all along, they have as much credibility as my mailman, period.
Last edited by hategreenticemase on Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
JPM wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:46 pm
That's because you don't really understand football.
Clark, I'm like your only fan here, remember that, buddy! Remember the good ol days when you and I actually talked football? That literally was so long ago some of your kids weren't even born and most rubes here don't even know back in 2000s you actually we're a good poster.
