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Zim and company are good at finding and developing DL. They are the antithesis of OL finding and developing.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 pm Is that Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes both look great in minicamp.
If either or both of them develop into players, that would be awesome!
Our DL has been the weakness of our defense since Zim got here.hategreenticemase wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:20 pmZim and company are good at finding and developing DL. They are the antithesis of OL finding and developing.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 pm Is that Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes both look great in minicamp.
If either or both of them develop into players, that would be awesome!
It's one reason I was all for trading EG one year early rather than a yest too late.
I don't even know what to say.salamander wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:42 amOur DL has been the weakness of our defense since Zim got here.hategreenticemase wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:20 pmZim and company are good at finding and developing DL. They are the antithesis of OL finding and developing.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 pm Is that Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes both look great in minicamp.
If either or both of them develop into players, that would be awesome!
It's one reason I was all for trading EG one year early rather than a yest too late.
I had the same first blush thought... but then think about it. It’s certainly not the secondary. Zim inherited Smith and Rhodes and they’ve been studs his entire tenure. They’ve added tremendous talent in the draft (Waynes, Hughes, Alexander) and in FA (Munnerlynn) to go along with productive lesser investments (Harris, Kearse, Sendejo, Hill, etc.). The secondary has been great.Thrillkill wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:56 pmI don't even know what to say.salamander wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:42 amOur DL has been the weakness of our defense since Zim got here.hategreenticemase wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:20 pm
Zim and company are good at finding and developing DL. They are the antithesis of OL finding and developing.
It's one reason I was all for trading EG one year early rather than a yest too late.
Right. But we’ve had coaches that have spent a lot of picks and still not been able to build shit.
Thrillkill wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:56 pmI don't even know what to say.salamander wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:42 amOur DL has been the weakness of our defense since Zim got here.hategreenticemase wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:20 pm
Zim and company are good at finding and developing DL. They are the antithesis of OL finding and developing.
It's one reason I was all for trading EG one year early rather than a yest too late.
I have never understood these claims that players look "great" in minicamps. Particularly defensive linemen.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 pm Is that Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes both look great in minicamp.
If either or both of them develop into players, that would be awesome!
Everyone looks great in mini-camps. What the hell else are best writers going to spew to get their piece in this time of year. Every team out there is selling the same hope right now.mlhouse wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:02 pmI have never understood these claims that players look "great" in minicamps. Particularly defensive linemen.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 pm Is that Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes both look great in minicamp.
If either or both of them develop into players, that would be awesome!
I would say they are two critical players for the season though. We need at least one of them to step up.bombers3shooter wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:26 pmEveryone looks great in mini-camps. What the hell else are best writers going to spew to get their piece in this time of year. Every team out there is selling the same hope right now.mlhouse wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:02 pmI have never understood these claims that players look "great" in minicamps. Particularly defensive linemen.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 pm Is that Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes both look great in minicamp.
If either or both of them develop into players, that would be awesome!
The DL isn't weak. If anything, it's the one part of the defense where Zim has shown the ability to mold quality players without spending all of the team's assets. I'd say that LB is probably the weaker link. Barr was the #9 pick and has never been a consistent playmaker. Kendricks has been good to very good. The 3rd LB position has always been in the flux the last few years, with a bunch of guys never really developing into the option the team needs.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:13 pmI had the same first blush thought... but then think about it. It’s certainly not the secondary. Zim inherited Smith and Rhodes and they’ve been studs his entire tenure. They’ve added tremendous talent in the draft (Waynes, Hughes, Alexander) and in FA (Munnerlynn) to go along with productive lesser investments (Harris, Kearse, Sendejo, Hill, etc.). The secondary has been great.Thrillkill wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:56 pmI don't even know what to say.salamander wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:42 am
Our DL has been the weakness of our defense since Zim got here.
You can argue that the LBs have been weaker than the DL, but Barr was Zim’s first draft pick and he landed Kendricks the next year and they’ve been great.
The issue is the phrasing of “weakness” when talking about Zim’s defenses here. While you can say that relative to the secondary for sure and arguably the LBs, the DL is the “weakness,” but even if that’s so, they’re hardly “weak” when compared to the rest of the NFL.
Zim’s defenses have ranked 14th, 13th, 3rd, 1st, and 4th since he’s been here (31st the year before he got here, for anyone questioning his ability). So that’s hardly a unit that deserves to have the term “weak” used to describe any part of it.
I agree with your first claim, but I think just about everything else you wrote is completely false.B-Town wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm
The DL isn't weak. If anything, it's the one part of the defense where Zim has shown the ability to mold quality players without spending all of the team's assets. I'd say that LB is probably the weaker link. Barr was the #9 pick and has never been a consistent playmaker. Kendricks has been good to very good. The 3rd LB position has always been in the flux the last few years, with a bunch of guys never really developing into the option the team needs.
Barr is certainly NOT the best defensive player.mlhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:48 pmI agree with your first claim, but I think just about everything else you wrote is completely false.B-Town wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm
The DL isn't weak. If anything, it's the one part of the defense where Zim has shown the ability to mold quality players without spending all of the team's assets. I'd say that LB is probably the weaker link. Barr was the #9 pick and has never been a consistent playmaker. Kendricks has been good to very good. The 3rd LB position has always been in the flux the last few years, with a bunch of guys never really developing into the option the team needs.
For example, of the defensive line we have expended significant free agent money. Barr is probably the best player on the defense, which is saying a lot. Kendirck is good, so yeah that is correct. But the 3rd LB spot has been held down by Ben Gedeon the past 2 seasons and probably a 3rd and I would state they have developed UDFA Eric Wilson into a pretty good player.
By far. Mike Zimmer for sure agrees.Bob Wiley wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:51 pmBarr is certainly NOT the best defensive player.mlhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:48 pmI agree with your first claim, but I think just about everything else you wrote is completely false.B-Town wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm
The DL isn't weak. If anything, it's the one part of the defense where Zim has shown the ability to mold quality players without spending all of the team's assets. I'd say that LB is probably the weaker link. Barr was the #9 pick and has never been a consistent playmaker. Kendricks has been good to very good. The 3rd LB position has always been in the flux the last few years, with a bunch of guys never really developing into the option the team needs.
For example, of the defensive line we have expended significant free agent money. Barr is probably the best player on the defense, which is saying a lot. Kendirck is good, so yeah that is correct. But the 3rd LB spot has been held down by Ben Gedeon the past 2 seasons and probably a 3rd and I would state they have developed UDFA Eric Wilson into a pretty good player.
mlhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:59 pmBy far. Mike Zimmer for sure agrees.Bob Wiley wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:51 pmBarr is certainly NOT the best defensive player.mlhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:48 pm
I agree with your first claim, but I think just about everything else you wrote is completely false.
For example, of the defensive line we have expended significant free agent money. Barr is probably the best player on the defense, which is saying a lot. Kendirck is good, so yeah that is correct. But the 3rd LB spot has been held down by Ben Gedeon the past 2 seasons and probably a 3rd and I would state they have developed UDFA Eric Wilson into a pretty good player.
Barr is right up there.Bob Wiley wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:51 pmBarr is certainly NOT the best defensive player.mlhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:48 pmI agree with your first claim, but I think just about everything else you wrote is completely false.B-Town wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:56 pm
The DL isn't weak. If anything, it's the one part of the defense where Zim has shown the ability to mold quality players without spending all of the team's assets. I'd say that LB is probably the weaker link. Barr was the #9 pick and has never been a consistent playmaker. Kendricks has been good to very good. The 3rd LB position has always been in the flux the last few years, with a bunch of guys never really developing into the option the team needs.
For example, of the defensive line we have expended significant free agent money. Barr is probably the best player on the defense, which is saying a lot. Kendirck is good, so yeah that is correct. But the 3rd LB spot has been held down by Ben Gedeon the past 2 seasons and probably a 3rd and I would state they have developed UDFA Eric Wilson into a pretty good player.
I think Harrison Smith is the best safety in the league. I think Xavier Rhodes amongst the best CB (in 2017 he was by far). I think Hunter is one of the top DEs in the league.Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:43 pmBarr is right up there.Bob Wiley wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:51 pmBarr is certainly NOT the best defensive player.mlhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:48 pm
I agree with your first claim, but I think just about everything else you wrote is completely false.
For example, of the defensive line we have expended significant free agent money. Barr is probably the best player on the defense, which is saying a lot. Kendirck is good, so yeah that is correct. But the 3rd LB spot has been held down by Ben Gedeon the past 2 seasons and probably a 3rd and I would state they have developed UDFA Eric Wilson into a pretty good player.
The fact that he can play SLB and remain on the field in Nickel is HUGE for this defense.
Agreed 100%.mlhouse wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:54 pmI think Harrison Smith is the best safety in the league. I think Xavier Rhodes amongst the best CB (in 2017 he was by far). I think Hunter is one of the top DEs in the league.Ash Ketchum wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:43 pmBarr is right up there.
The fact that he can play SLB and remain on the field in Nickel is HUGE for this defense.
But i thik Barr is the most important player on the defense, the best player on the defense. He is underrated because his job is not to compile statistics. He doesnt get sacks or even tackles. His job is to read the play and destroy the POA. He does this consistently and effectively. That is how the defense works.
That is true and I'm ok with that!!bombers3shooter wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:26 pmEveryone looks great in mini-camps. What the hell else are best writers going to spew to get their piece in this time of year. Every team out there is selling the same hope right now.mlhouse wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:02 pmI have never understood these claims that players look "great" in minicamps. Particularly defensive linemen.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 pm Is that Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes both look great in minicamp.
If either or both of them develop into players, that would be awesome!
I really wish we could have kept George Stewart as WR coach. He builds amazing talent wherever he goes. I think Thielen and Diggs are a result of him coaching them up. I think we have a slight drop off at the position as time goes by. Look at Treadwell.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:00 pm Now I’m reading that Beebe is looking like an absolute master of the slot (TWSS!).
Weeeeeeeee!!!!
It's definitely a luxury I just want a better run stuffing unit. They get ran on in big situations often. Linval Joseph is no longer the player he was. Yeah, it's nit picking and most other teams would take our D-line, but they can be better.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:13 pmI had the same first blush thought... but then think about it. It’s certainly not the secondary. Zim inherited Smith and Rhodes and they’ve been studs his entire tenure. They’ve added tremendous talent in the draft (Waynes, Hughes, Alexander) and in FA (Munnerlynn) to go along with productive lesser investments (Harris, Kearse, Sendejo, Hill, etc.). The secondary has been great.Thrillkill wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:56 pmI don't even know what to say.salamander wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:42 am
Our DL has been the weakness of our defense since Zim got here.
You can argue that the LBs have been weaker than the DL, but Barr was Zim’s first draft pick and he landed Kendricks the next year and they’ve been great.
The issue is the phrasing of “weakness” when talking about Zim’s defenses here. While you can say that relative to the secondary for sure and arguably the LBs, the DL is the “weakness,” but even if that’s so, they’re hardly “weak” when compared to the rest of the NFL.
Zim’s defenses have ranked 14th, 13th, 3rd, 1st, and 4th since he’s been here (31st the year before he got here, for anyone questioning his ability). So that’s hardly a unit that deserves to have the term “weak” used to describe any part of it.