Forbes: Cousins' Confidence Level and Execution Must Improve in 2019

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

I feel like Forrest Gump after he had been running forever.

I think I am done talking about Kirk Cousins. I’ve said everything I can say and now it is time for him to put up or shut up. My prediction is that we make the playoffs and go one and done. Then we will sit through the next offseason talking about how he improved. How he needs another year. Damn Spielman will probably extend him.

This mediocrity is frustrating. Maybe 4-5 years from now we will realize what a waste of time this was. Shoulda drafted a quarterback. Instead we will overpay for a guy who will do exactly what some rookie could have done for cheap.

What if he "almost wins" a playoff game, develops a moon ball, and skinny knees? All good then? Shoot, I forgot, he'll have to ditch the iPad and donate his money to less fortunate millionaires.

[Dude]

We were not told as fans this would be the return on our investment. Which is what makes me mad about RS. He told us this was the missing piece to the puzzle.

Honest question- Do you have a link where Spielman actually said that? I know that was the sentiment coming out of the media, but I don't see anything where Spielman claimed he was the missing piece.

[cunningham]

We were not told as fans this would be the return on our investment. Which is what makes me mad about RS. He told us this was the missing piece to the puzzle.

Honest question- Do you have a link where Spielman actually said that? I know that was the sentiment coming out of the media, but I don't see anything where Spielman claimed he was the missing piece.

I’ll root around, but Spielman is the one who writes the story every year. The media eats up whatever he is selling and ask for seconds. If things go south the narrative won’t be Spielman overpaid and over promised. Everyone else goes under the bus first.

I’ll find something to back it up though.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

I feel like Forrest Gump after he had been running forever.

I think I am done talking about Kirk Cousins. I’ve said everything I can say and now it is time for him to put up or shut up. My prediction is that we make the playoffs and go one and done. Then we will sit through the next offseason talking about how he improved. How he needs another year. Damn Spielman will probably extend him.

This mediocrity is frustrating. Maybe 4-5 years from now we will realize what a waste of time this was. Shoulda drafted a quarterback. Instead we will overpay for a guy who will do exactly what some rookie could have done for cheap.

I almost missed this. Spot on!

[RubeTube]

I feel like Forrest Gump after he had been running forever.

I think I am done talking about Kirk Cousins. I’ve said everything I can say and now it is time for him to put up or shut up. My prediction is that we make the playoffs and go one and done. Then we will sit through the next offseason talking about how he improved. How he needs another year. Damn Spielman will probably extend him.

This mediocrity is frustrating. Maybe 4-5 years from now we will realize what a waste of time this was. Shoulda drafted a quarterback. Instead we will overpay for a guy who will do exactly what some rookie could have done for cheap.

I almost missed this. Spot on!

[Ash Ketchum]

In the 8 non-wins (7 losses and a tie), the Vikings gave up on average 29 points per game.

But yeah, the losses were all on Kirk.

I guess we can't blame Kirk for anything here. Even when we are paying him the same salary as guys who win Super Bowls and have high expectations. We just paid him the same amount of money because we were desperate. So we overpaid and are stuck with him win, lose, or tie.

Love the statement that we just paid that money to solidify the position of quarterback. I don't think it is solidified yet and throwing money at problems never solved anything. Zimmer is right, put the "W" up and not the stats or looking good in practice. We must have more wins!

And Ash, this team went 1-11 on 3rd down against the Bears. You have to get first downs or you lose games. That is what I have been saying for months here. If you go 3 and out early you are not controlling time of possession (we were horrible overall in this stat last season) and you are going to wear your defense out.Your team has to go with the flow of the game. Otherwise the other team gets ahead in points and you are forced to abandon the run (our rushing stats were super low) and are forced to pass a ton (Cousins didn't win a game when he passed more than 40 times). Jump ahead to later in the game like the third quarter. 3rd down, team is down by a touchdown, and we can't even cross the 50 yards line. We get stopped, the other team gets the ball and goes down and scores. Now we are down by two touchdowns and Kirk starts to get a ton of yards. It is too late though. Our defense is gassed and we slowly lose. I watched that scenario unfold too often last season. We got one single solitary 1st down in a game at home, against a division rival, with the entire season on the line. That is pitiful.

Seattle just put out extra DBs and barely even pressured Kirk, so really this whole offensive line being the sole reason we were horrible isn't totally true. Kirk needs some of the blame.

We are a good team, but if we do not get first downs early and consistently control the time of possession we are dead in the water. Zimmer knows this and said to Cousins that practice doesn't matter. He must win games. Stats don't matter (except maybe for stuff in the contract). Super Bowls have been won with quarterbacks who have no where near the stats that Kirk has.

Do you understand the difference between saying “it’s not all on Kirk” and saying “Kirk deserves zero blame?”

I’m asking this honestly, and only looking for a yes or no answer.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

In the 8 non-wins (7 losses and a tie), the Vikings gave up on average 29 points per game.

But yeah, the losses were all on Kirk.

I guess we can't blame Kirk for anything here. Even when we are paying him the same salary as guys who win Super Bowls and have high expectations. We just paid him the same amount of money because we were desperate. So we overpaid and are stuck with him win, lose, or tie.

Love the statement that we just paid that money to solidify the position of quarterback. I don't think it is solidified yet and throwing money at problems never solved anything. Zimmer is right, put the "W" up and not the stats or looking good in practice. We must have more wins!

And Ash, this team went 1-11 on 3rd down against the Bears. You have to get first downs or you lose games. That is what I have been saying for months here. If you go 3 and out early you are not controlling time of possession (we were horrible overall in this stat last season) and you are going to wear your defense out.Your team has to go with the flow of the game. Otherwise the other team gets ahead in points and you are forced to abandon the run (our rushing stats were super low) and are forced to pass a ton (Cousins didn't win a game when he passed more than 40 times). Jump ahead to later in the game like the third quarter. 3rd down, team is down by a touchdown, and we can't even cross the 50 yards line. We get stopped, the other team gets the ball and goes down and scores. Now we are down by two touchdowns and Kirk starts to get a ton of yards. It is too late though. Our defense is gassed and we slowly lose. I watched that scenario unfold too often last season. We got one single solitary 1st down in a game at home, against a division rival, with the entire season on the line. That is pitiful.

Seattle just put out extra DBs and barely even pressured Kirk, so really this whole offensive line being the sole reason we were horrible isn't totally true. Kirk needs some of the blame.

We are a good team, but if we do not get first downs early and consistently control the time of possession we are dead in the water. Zimmer knows this and said to Cousins that practice doesn't matter. He must win games. Stats don't matter (except maybe for stuff in the contract). Super Bowls have been won with quarterbacks who have no where near the stats that Kirk has.

Do you understand the difference between saying “it’s not all on Kirk” and saying “Kirk deserves zero blame?”

I’m asking this honestly, and only looking for a yes or no answer.

Honestly, good luck to you Ash!

[cunningham]

We were not told as fans this would be the return on our investment. Which is what makes me mad about RS. He told us this was the missing piece to the puzzle.

Honest question- Do you have a link where Spielman actually said that? I know that was the sentiment coming out of the media, but I don't see anything where Spielman claimed he was the missing piece.

I’ll root around, but Spielman is the one who writes the story every year. The media eats up whatever he is selling and ask for seconds. If things go south the narrative won’t be Spielman overpaid and over promised. Everyone else goes under the bus first.

I’ll find something to back it up though.

I am sifting through literally nearly 100 articles and I cannot find a direct quote yet from Spielman, but there are a ton of articles written discussing how he was the missing piece. Rick makes the narrative and the press follows. Found this interesting piece from Chip Scoggins, who I would think most here respect:

MINNEAPOLIS — He was supposed to be the missing piece, the $84 million answer to a championship drought. The Vikings signed Kirk Cousins to a historic contract in free agency with a crystal clear vision in mind. Build on the Minneapolis Miracle.

Instead, Cousins played a starring role in the Minneapolis Whimper.

No playoffs, no championship, nothing but frustration after watching the offense thoroughly manhandled by a ferocious Chicago Bears defense in a pack-your-bags 24-10 loss Sunday at U.S. Bank Stadium.

Knowing a win put them in the postseason, the Vikings offense offered a feeble performance that exposed many of the same issues that sabotaged the second half of their underachieving season.

That started with their quarterback.

Cousins flopped at the worst possible moment. He wasn’t alone in futility, but he stands out by virtue of his position and his stature as the $84 million quarterback.

Cousins passed for only 132 yards and one touchdown while posting a 79.4 rating. His longest completion was 18 yards.

“If you play in this league long enough, you’re going to get kicked in the teeth,” Cousins said. “I have a lot of intestinal fortitude to keep moving forward.”

It would’ve been nice to see some of that gumption as their season hung by a thread. His tenure in Minnesota will always be judged on postseason results, not regular-season statistics. And when he fails to even reach the playoffs and the offense looks so discombobulated in the process, nobody wants to hear sweet melodies about the future.

The rap on Cousins has been his inability to rise to the moment in big games. This was his chance to squash those concerns. The chorus only grows louder now.

Cousins looked skittish against the Bears’ fierce pass rush. He threw aimlessly on deep balls. And he just hasn’t shown the ability to elevate players around him on consistent basis or compensate for an offensive line that remains the offense’s biggest problem.

General manager Rick Spielman showed professional negligence in constructing that overmatched position. If the organization uses its first draft pick on any position other than offensive line this spring, Spielman should be forced to sit the rest of the draft in silence.

“This is only Year 1,” Cousins said.

This wasn’t a rebuilding job, though. Maybe the Super Bowl-or-bust rhetoric conveniently ignored their offensive line issues, but missing the playoffs completely should cause some serious soul-searching.

The defining moment for the offense came at the end of the first half Sunday. The Vikings faced third-and-6 from the Bears’ 27. They trailed 13-0.

Cousins threw a pass to the outside that landed nowhere near his intended target, Adam Thielen. The TV broadcast caught Cousins and Thielen engaged in a heated conversation as they reached the sideline. To paraphrase, Cousins appeared to say, “Hey, I don’t have all day,” and then he demonstrated how the route should be run.

Thielen fired back, clearly disgusted.

Both players downplayed their exchange after the game. Heck, to hear them explain things, it sounded like they had a lovely fireside chat over a warm cup of tea.

“No. 1, it wasn’t between Kirk and I,” Thielen said. “Actually, it turned out to be a good conversation.”

Kirk?

“Adam is my guy, he’s the best,” Cousins said. “I want to have more of those conversations. I actually liked the passion back and forth. I want to do more of that and let us both be who we are and have those discussions.”

Sure why not? More confusion and sideline tantrums. That should solve the problem.

The offense completely lost its way after a promising start to the season. Cousins became inconsistent and clearly was affected by his line’s inability to protect him. A change in coordinators resulted in a brief spark but fundamental problems remain, as well as lingering questions about what should be the offense’s identity.

Run-first? Pass-first? Nobody seems to know.

At the moment of truth, needing a touchdown to create something positive in a must-win game, Cousins uncorked a wild pass and then had a heated conversation with his best receiver.

A fitting end to a season that was wholly unfulfilling.

[cunningham]

Do you understand the difference between saying “it’s not all on Kirk” and saying “Kirk deserves zero blame?”

I’m asking this honestly, and only looking for a yes or no answer.

Yes.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

Do you understand the difference between saying “it’s not all on Kirk” and saying “Kirk deserves zero blame?”

I’m asking this honestly, and only looking for a yes or no answer.

Yes.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

Honest question- Do you have a link where Spielman actually said that? I know that was the sentiment coming out of the media, but I don't see anything where Spielman claimed he was the missing piece.

I’ll root around, but Spielman is the one who writes the story every year. The media eats up whatever he is selling and ask for seconds. If things go south the narrative won’t be Spielman overpaid and over promised. Everyone else goes under the bus first.

I’ll find something to back it up though.

I am sifting through literally nearly 100 articles and I cannot find a direct quote yet from Spielman, but there are a ton of articles written discussing how he was the missing piece. Rick makes the narrative and the press follows. Found this interesting piece from Chip Scoggins, who I would think most here respect:

MINNEAPOLIS — He was supposed to be the missing piece, the $84 million answer to a championship drought. The Vikings signed Kirk Cousins to a historic contract in free agency with a crystal clear vision in mind. Build on the Minneapolis Miracle.

Instead, Cousins played a starring role in the Minneapolis Whimper.

No playoffs, no championship, nothing but frustration after watching the offense thoroughly manhandled by a ferocious Chicago Bears defense in a pack-your-bags 24-10 loss Sunday at U.S. Bank Stadium.

Knowing a win put them in the postseason, the Vikings offense offered a feeble performance that exposed many of the same issues that sabotaged the second half of their underachieving season.

That started with their quarterback.

Cousins flopped at the worst possible moment. He wasn’t alone in futility, but he stands out by virtue of his position and his stature as the $84 million quarterback.

Cousins passed for only 132 yards and one touchdown while posting a 79.4 rating. His longest completion was 18 yards.

“If you play in this league long enough, you’re going to get kicked in the teeth,” Cousins said. “I have a lot of intestinal fortitude to keep moving forward.”

It would’ve been nice to see some of that gumption as their season hung by a thread. His tenure in Minnesota will always be judged on postseason results, not regular-season statistics. And when he fails to even reach the playoffs and the offense looks so discombobulated in the process, nobody wants to hear sweet melodies about the future.

The rap on Cousins has been his inability to rise to the moment in big games. This was his chance to squash those concerns. The chorus only grows louder now.

Cousins looked skittish against the Bears’ fierce pass rush. He threw aimlessly on deep balls. And he just hasn’t shown the ability to elevate players around him on consistent basis or compensate for an offensive line that remains the offense’s biggest problem.

General manager Rick Spielman showed professional negligence in constructing that overmatched position. If the organization uses its first draft pick on any position other than offensive line this spring, Spielman should be forced to sit the rest of the draft in silence.

“This is only Year 1,” Cousins said.

This wasn’t a rebuilding job, though. Maybe the Super Bowl-or-bust rhetoric conveniently ignored their offensive line issues, but missing the playoffs completely should cause some serious soul-searching.

The defining moment for the offense came at the end of the first half Sunday. The Vikings faced third-and-6 from the Bears’ 27. They trailed 13-0.

Cousins threw a pass to the outside that landed nowhere near his intended target, Adam Thielen. The TV broadcast caught Cousins and Thielen engaged in a heated conversation as they reached the sideline. To paraphrase, Cousins appeared to say, “Hey, I don’t have all day,” and then he demonstrated how the route should be run.

Thielen fired back, clearly disgusted.

Both players downplayed their exchange after the game. Heck, to hear them explain things, it sounded like they had a lovely fireside chat over a warm cup of tea.

“No. 1, it wasn’t between Kirk and I,” Thielen said. “Actually, it turned out to be a good conversation.”

Kirk?

“Adam is my guy, he’s the best,” Cousins said. “I want to have more of those conversations. I actually liked the passion back and forth. I want to do more of that and let us both be who we are and have those discussions.”

Sure why not? More confusion and sideline tantrums. That should solve the problem.

The offense completely lost its way after a promising start to the season. Cousins became inconsistent and clearly was affected by his line’s inability to protect him. A change in coordinators resulted in a brief spark but fundamental problems remain, as well as lingering questions about what should be the offense’s identity.

Run-first? Pass-first? Nobody seems to know.

At the moment of truth, needing a touchdown to create something positive in a must-win game, Cousins uncorked a wild pass and then had a heated conversation with his best receiver.

A fitting end to a season that was wholly unfulfilling.

So the answer is no Dude. Can you ever long story short anything?

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

My God, entire f-ing novels that don't at all back up his fairly tales.

[cunningham]

3 posts in a row. Spammer!

I don't have time to search it any more. Rick is all over saying this and that. Papers pick it up and I can show you tons saying Cousins was the missing link. I can also show a ton saying that Cousins was a crappy signing. That we overpaid. That we are screwed. Want those?

460 posts and counting.

Your posts are like Cousins passing stats... Garbage.

[Dude]

Honest question- Do you have a link where Spielman actually said that? I know that was the sentiment coming out of the media, but I don't see anything where Spielman claimed he was the missing piece.

I’ll root around, but Spielman is the one who writes the story every year. The media eats up whatever he is selling and ask for seconds. If things go south the narrative won’t be Spielman overpaid and over promised. Everyone else goes under the bus first.

I’ll find something to back it up though.

I am sifting through literally nearly 100 articles and I cannot find a direct quote yet from Spielman, but there are a ton of articles written discussing how he was the missing piece. Rick makes the narrative and the press follows. Found this interesting piece from Chip Scoggins, who I would think most here respect:

MINNEAPOLIS — He was supposed to be the missing piece, the $84 million answer to a championship drought. The Vikings signed Kirk Cousins to a historic contract in free agency with a crystal clear vision in mind. Build on the Minneapolis Miracle.

Instead, Cousins played a starring role in the Minneapolis Whimper.

No playoffs, no championship, nothing but frustration after watching the offense thoroughly manhandled by a ferocious Chicago Bears defense in a pack-your-bags 24-10 loss Sunday at U.S. Bank Stadium.

Knowing a win put them in the postseason, the Vikings offense offered a feeble performance that exposed many of the same issues that sabotaged the second half of their underachieving season.

That started with their quarterback.

Cousins flopped at the worst possible moment. He wasn’t alone in futility, but he stands out by virtue of his position and his stature as the $84 million quarterback.

Cousins passed for only 132 yards and one touchdown while posting a 79.4 rating. His longest completion was 18 yards.

“If you play in this league long enough, you’re going to get kicked in the teeth,” Cousins said. “I have a lot of intestinal fortitude to keep moving forward.”

It would’ve been nice to see some of that gumption as their season hung by a thread. His tenure in Minnesota will always be judged on postseason results, not regular-season statistics. And when he fails to even reach the playoffs and the offense looks so discombobulated in the process, nobody wants to hear sweet melodies about the future.

The rap on Cousins has been his inability to rise to the moment in big games. This was his chance to squash those concerns. The chorus only grows louder now.

Cousins looked skittish against the Bears’ fierce pass rush. He threw aimlessly on deep balls. And he just hasn’t shown the ability to elevate players around him on consistent basis or compensate for an offensive line that remains the offense’s biggest problem.

General manager Rick Spielman showed professional negligence in constructing that overmatched position. If the organization uses its first draft pick on any position other than offensive line this spring, Spielman should be forced to sit the rest of the draft in silence.

“This is only Year 1,” Cousins said.

This wasn’t a rebuilding job, though. Maybe the Super Bowl-or-bust rhetoric conveniently ignored their offensive line issues, but missing the playoffs completely should cause some serious soul-searching.

The defining moment for the offense came at the end of the first half Sunday. The Vikings faced third-and-6 from the Bears’ 27. They trailed 13-0.

Cousins threw a pass to the outside that landed nowhere near his intended target, Adam Thielen. The TV broadcast caught Cousins and Thielen engaged in a heated conversation as they reached the sideline. To paraphrase, Cousins appeared to say, “Hey, I don’t have all day,” and then he demonstrated how the route should be run.

Thielen fired back, clearly disgusted.

Both players downplayed their exchange after the game. Heck, to hear them explain things, it sounded like they had a lovely fireside chat over a warm cup of tea.

“No. 1, it wasn’t between Kirk and I,” Thielen said. “Actually, it turned out to be a good conversation.”

Kirk?

“Adam is my guy, he’s the best,” Cousins said. “I want to have more of those conversations. I actually liked the passion back and forth. I want to do more of that and let us both be who we are and have those discussions.”

Sure why not? More confusion and sideline tantrums. That should solve the problem.

The offense completely lost its way after a promising start to the season. Cousins became inconsistent and clearly was affected by his line’s inability to protect him. A change in coordinators resulted in a brief spark but fundamental problems remain, as well as lingering questions about what should be the offense’s identity.

Run-first? Pass-first? Nobody seems to know.

At the moment of truth, needing a touchdown to create something positive in a must-win game, Cousins uncorked a wild pass and then had a heated conversation with his best receiver.

A fitting end to a season that was wholly unfulfilling.

So no...

Two things- I'm really not sure what you mean when you say "Rick makes the narrative and the press follows." You're attributing a quote to Spielman that he never said as far as I can tell, but was put out there by the media. I realize I'm just nitpicking, but to me it highlights that you're just seeing what you want to see.

Secondly, Scoggins himself states in this article things that have been the crux of the other side of your debate: "He wasn’t alone in futility, but he stands out by virtue of his position and his stature as the $84 million quarterback" and "he just hasn’t shown the ability to elevate players around him on consistent basis or compensate for an offensive line that remains the offense’s biggest problem."

Nobody's arguing that Cousins didn't have a rough season, especially at the end. Nobody's arguing that the $84 million contract wasn't a gamble. You can't look at this season however and tell me that they didn't do as well as 2017 simply because the quarterback play regressed. There were multiple failures offensively including the offensive line as well as gameplanning/playcalling.

I know you expected Aaron Rogers and you're bitter about that. I get it. At the same time, you shouldn't have been expecting Aaron Rodgers. That's on you.

[cunningham]

Here you go:
https://www.vikings.com/video/spielman- ... 8-20472009

Best quarterback to hit the open market since Brees, convinced ownership he was the missing piece, etc...

It is all there.

You are welcome.

[cunningham]

Dude:
I'm not gonna quote because it is too large, but I agree with Scoggins and I do agree our offensive line was suspect. Our offensive coaching was atrocious. The loss of Sparano hurt. I did think for that money we were getting a much better quarterback than we got. Maybe not Aaron Rodgers, but in that interview Spielman talks about how this was the best quarterback to hit the free agent market since Drew Brees. That is a pretty high comparison. Especially considering we signed Brett Favre as a free agent.

Spielman sets the narrative and the press follows it. He talks about convincing the Wilf's to spend all this money and one would have to assume he walked in saying this was the missing piece. Rick is good about not getting himself in trouble. That shows in his answers. He loves to make him seem like he is pulling the strings (he talks about how he found Zimmer and all this), but then kind of says that he let Defillippo guide the quarterback situation to a point. It is on Rick at that point because he is allowing someone else to make that $84 million dollar decision.

We are not that far apart as I said on this thread or another a page or two ago. We get a good running game and this ship can be righted, but we have a skiddish quarterback who becomes erratic in big games. So much so that it can sink your team.

That scares me moving forward.

[RubeTube]

Dude:
I'm not gonna quote because it is too large, but I agree with Scoggins and I do agree our offensive line was suspect. Our offensive coaching was atrocious. The loss of Sparano hurt. I did think for that money we were getting a much better quarterback than we got. Maybe not Aaron Rodgers, but in that interview Spielman talks about how this was the best quarterback to hit the free agent market since Drew Brees. That is a pretty high comparison. Especially considering we signed Brett Favre as a free agent.

Spielman sets the narrative and the press follows it. He talks about convincing the Wilf's to spend all this money and one would have to assume he walked in saying this was the missing piece. Rick is good about not getting himself in trouble. That shows in his answers. He loves to make him seem like he is pulling the strings (he talks about how he found Zimmer and all this), but then kind of says that he let Defillippo guide the quarterback situation to a point. It is on Rick at that point because he is allowing someone else to make that $84 million dollar decision.

We are not that far apart as I said on this thread or another a page or two ago. We get a good running game and this ship can be righted, but we have a skiddish quarterback who becomes erratic in big games. So much so that it can sink your team.

That scares me moving forward.

[Beef Supreme]

He was brought in because the team determined he was the best free agent option. You can argue with that decision, or throw in hyperbole about a haircut, but that's a reflection of the team and the market.

Well no shit!


That’s not the debate. The debate is weather the team was right or wrong to bring him in at the contract they did.

Year one returns: They were wrong. Kirk needs to play better this year to change that.

You have a habit of choosing your debate, when I made a specific comment to you. You don't get to choose what quibble I have with your comment. You can answer my assertion and debate the issue I brought up.

He was paid what the market determined he get paid, he was not paid to contribute relative to how that dollar amount ranks him amongst other QB's because the market is not static. He was the best FA QB option out there, the Vikings decided that was true, and they were right.

After one year, the evidence is that the Vikings were wrong. That doesn’t mean they will be wrong after 2 or 3 years, but we could have easily missed the playoffs last year without him.


And you don’t get to reframe my argument. I’ve never claimed that they overspent on the market to bring him in. I’ve claimed that so far he hasn’t proven that he’s worth the money. I think, so far, that I’m right. We'll see if that stays true this and next year.

[Dude]

Here you go:
https://www.vikings.com/video/spielman- ... 8-20472009

Best quarterback to hit the open market since Brees, convinced ownership he was the missing piece, etc...

It is all there.

You are welcome.

Nope.

He did say Cousins was the best quarterback to hit the open market since Brees. At no point did I hear him say anything about having to convince ownership he was the missing piece. I didn't hear him even come close to saying that, other than saying he thought Cousins was the best option for the team.

[Dude]

Well no shit!


That’s not the debate. The debate is weather the team was right or wrong to bring him in at the contract they did.

Year one returns: They were wrong. Kirk needs to play better this year to change that.

You have a habit of choosing your debate, when I made a specific comment to you. You don't get to choose what quibble I have with your comment. You can answer my assertion and debate the issue I brought up.

He was paid what the market determined he get paid, he was not paid to contribute relative to how that dollar amount ranks him amongst other QB's because the market is not static. He was the best FA QB option out there, the Vikings decided that was true, and they were right.

After one year, the evidence is that the Vikings were wrong. That doesn’t mean they will be wrong after 2 or 3 years, but we could have easily missed the playoffs last year without him.


And you don’t get to reframe my argument. I’ve never claimed that they overspent on the market to bring him in. I’ve claimed that so far he hasn’t proven that he’s worth the money. I think, so far, that I’m right. We'll see if that stays true this and next year.

So far you're right, but the book has three chapters. I hope you're wrong (I'm sure you do too).

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

Well no shit!


That’s not the debate. The debate is weather the team was right or wrong to bring him in at the contract they did.

Year one returns: They were wrong. Kirk needs to play better this year to change that.

You have a habit of choosing your debate, when I made a specific comment to you. You don't get to choose what quibble I have with your comment. You can answer my assertion and debate the issue I brought up.

He was paid what the market determined he get paid, he was not paid to contribute relative to how that dollar amount ranks him amongst other QB's because the market is not static. He was the best FA QB option out there, the Vikings decided that was true, and they were right.

After one year, the evidence is that the Vikings were wrong. That doesn’t mean they will be wrong after 2 or 3 years, but we could have easily missed the playoffs last year without him.


And you don’t get to reframe my argument. I’ve never claimed that they overspent on the market to bring him in. I’ve claimed that so far he hasn’t proven that he’s worth the money. I think, so far, that I’m right. We'll see if that stays true this and next year.

When someone makes a comment to you, typically they get to choose what their comment to you means, and thus the argument. You don't change it to suit your needs because it's the other person's argument.

Furthermore, the evidence does not at all show they were wrong. He was the best FA QB, and he outplayed the other QB's that were on the market when he was. That's a flat out false judgement you've made.

[cunningham]

When I was looking for a Spielman quote I read through a lot of articles. I googled “Vikings Cousins super bowl” and there were a shit ton of old articles discussing how he was the missing link to the Super Bowl. Players and the media. And yet Spielman tiptoes as he does in that interview like a lawyer.

There were a ton of articles about this past season saying exactly what I have been saying. And a lot of what you (the Dude/Joe/Ash camp) have been saying as well.

People have a really hard time explaining why Cousins struggles to win. In an article out of Seattle there was a ton of stuff. The dropping back or 7 DBs and how that shut our team down and confused Cousins. To back up what you have said that would make you guys are saying we had something seriously wrong with our run game. They saw some stuff on film right down to that blocked kick. Pete said we were a good team, but something was on film. We got out coached. One offense, Cousins, and Special Teams.

At one point there was a discussion in one article about how our run game was bland and fairly easy to stop. Another that Defillippo didn’t have enough experience, but had coached Foles and Wentz so well. There was talk of him being a head coach.

There was a piece that talked about Flip’s offense and Cousins fitting, but earlier in the process he said he only knew of Cousins from college giving a speech. They interviewed our quarterbacks and some others for the position.

In video interviews Rick is ecstatic and selling Cousins up. But again, he talks like a lawyer and knows how to spread it around. He takes credit for Zimmer too though.

Another article said that if Rick didn’t draft a linemen someone like his wife or something was gonna lock him out of the house.

I don’t know. I saw something go down last season and it stunk. I didn’t think it was just a weak line. The running game was horrible and Cook continued to be injured. That Rams game was big, but watching it again reminded me how hopeless this team was. Sputtering and flashes, but not very good.

It didn’t give me a lot of confidence in the squad, but Stef has been here a long time. I am kind of more optimistic about the offense with him and Kubiak. And as Dude said, Manning was one of the worst quarterbacks when he won the Super Bowl, or was it someone else saying Manning had the most yards when games were too far lost? Either way Kubiak played a role in winning with a broken Manning.

We could do it, but people really need to stfu about Cousins being a worth the money or even a very good quarterback. Something is messed up with his game. He gets erratic and frazzled fairly easily. Getting in his head doesn’t take much at all. Probably how Joe’s head is, but Joe is crazy, Kirk is just fragile minded.

It came up in a lot of articles about Cousins being someone who doesn’t let the lows get to him, how he liked that tiff with Adam on the sidelines, but it didn’t really seem believable the way people were writing about it.

We will be a fragile team that needs an amazing defense and coaching on offense. This is a total rebuild with the Shannahan system installation. Kind of like what Denver did.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

When I was looking for a Spielman quote I read through a lot of articles. I googled “Vikings Cousins super bowl” and there were a shit ton of old articles discussing how he was the missing link to the Super Bowl. Players and the media. And yet Spielman tiptoes as he does in that interview like a lawyer.

There were a ton of articles about this past season saying exactly what I have been saying. And a lot of what you (the Dude/Joe/Ash camp) have been saying as well.

People have a really hard time explaining why Cousins struggles to win. In an article out of Seattle there was a ton of stuff. The dropping back or 7 DBs and how that shut our team down and confused Cousins. To back up what you have said that would make you guys are saying we had something seriously wrong with our run game. They saw some stuff on film right down to that blocked kick. Pete said we were a good team, but something was on film. We got out coached. One offense, Cousins, and Special Teams.

At one point there was a discussion in one article about how our run game was bland and fairly easy to stop. Another that Defillippo didn’t have enough experience, but had coached Foles and Wentz so well. There was talk of him being a head coach.

There was a piece that talked about Flip’s offense and Cousins fitting, but earlier in the process he said he only knew of Cousins from college giving a speech. They interviewed our quarterbacks and some others for the position.

In video interviews Rick is ecstatic and selling Cousins up. But again, he talks like a lawyer and knows how to spread it around. He takes credit for Zimmer too though.

Another article said that if Rick didn’t draft a linemen someone like his wife or something was gonna lock him out of the house.

I don’t know. I saw something go down last season and it stunk. I didn’t think it was just a weak line. The running game was horrible and Cook continued to be injured. That Rams game was big, but watching it again reminded me how hopeless this team was. Sputtering and flashes, but not very good.

It didn’t give me a lot of confidence in the squad, but Stef has been here a long time. I am kind of more optimistic about the offense with him and Kubiak. And as Dude said, Manning was one of the worst quarterbacks when he won the Super Bowl, or was it someone else saying Manning had the most yards when games were too far lost? Either way Kubiak played a role in winning with a broken Manning.

We could do it, but people really need to stfu about Cousins being a worth the money or even a very good quarterback. Something is messed up with his game. He gets erratic and frazzled fairly easily. Getting in his head doesn’t take much at all. Probably how Joe’s head is, but Joe is crazy, Kirk is just fragile minded.

It came up in a lot of articles about Cousins being someone who doesn’t let the lows get to him, how he liked that tiff with Adam on the sidelines, but it didn’t really seem believable the way people were writing about it.

We will be a fragile team that needs an amazing defense and coaching on offense. This is a total rebuild with the Shannahan system installation. Kind of like what Denver did.

Do you think the more you write, the more people will believe you? Wtf, you just filled up an entire page in this thread (that I won't read). A casual skim, and all you can come up with is what the media said? Who gives a shit?

[Ash Ketchum]

Imagine making post after post, page after page and thread after thread over-analyzing stats and bending them to try to prove Kirk Cousins is terrible and somehow worse than Bridgewater, Keenum and Lamar Jackson... when LITERALLY the only main point anyone can objectively make is this:

Cousins’ 2018 season overall was a disappointment, but he has a better supporting case — on paper at least — in 2019, and he has a decent chance to improve his performance this season because of it. At the very least, an objective person would wait to see how Cousins does with a better OL, more settled OC situation and a better running game before we make ridiculous claims such as the Vikings being better off with Lamar Jackson or Dwayne Haskins.

[Beef Supreme]

You have a habit of choosing your debate, when I made a specific comment to you. You don't get to choose what quibble I have with your comment. You can answer my assertion and debate the issue I brought up.

He was paid what the market determined he get paid, he was not paid to contribute relative to how that dollar amount ranks him amongst other QB's because the market is not static. He was the best FA QB option out there, the Vikings decided that was true, and they were right.

After one year, the evidence is that the Vikings were wrong. That doesn’t mean they will be wrong after 2 or 3 years, but we could have easily missed the playoffs last year without him.


And you don’t get to reframe my argument. I’ve never claimed that they overspent on the market to bring him in. I’ve claimed that so far he hasn’t proven that he’s worth the money. I think, so far, that I’m right. We'll see if that stays true this and next year.

So far you're right, but the book has three chapters. I hope you're wrong (I'm sure you do too).

[cunningham]

Thought you might like a little recap of some research. Guess it’s not worth the time. But let someone give you a researched 5 round mock draft with explanations on each player and their own analysis. Of which most is wrong and a waste of time.

I’ll just post emojis and insults since I guess that is what some view this site as.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

Thought you might like a little recap of some research. Guess it’s not worth the time. But let someone give you a researched 5 round mock draft with explanations on each player and their own analysis. Of which most is wrong and a waste of time.

I’ll just post emojis and insults since I guess that is what some view this site as.

Nope, a simple "I'm a dumbass that just opens my mouth without thinking, posts videos without watching them, and posts research, none of which says what I pretended they say" would suffice.

[RubeTube]

I tried to watch a Turdwater TD highlight video but I blinked and missed it.

Didn't realize Kirk threw more TDs last year than Turdwater has in 5 year's as a pro. Oh, and he did it with less ints.

[cunningham]

[Dude]

When I was looking for a Spielman quote I read through a lot of articles. I googled “Vikings Cousins super bowl” and there were a shit ton of old articles discussing how he was the missing link to the Super Bowl. Players and the media. And yet Spielman tiptoes as he does in that interview like a lawyer.

There were a ton of articles about this past season saying exactly what I have been saying. And a lot of what you (the Dude/Joe/Ash camp) have been saying as well.

People have a really hard time explaining why Cousins struggles to win. In an article out of Seattle there was a ton of stuff. The dropping back or 7 DBs and how that shut our team down and confused Cousins. To back up what you have said that would make you guys are saying we had something seriously wrong with our run game. They saw some stuff on film right down to that blocked kick. Pete said we were a good team, but something was on film. We got out coached. One offense, Cousins, and Special Teams.

At one point there was a discussion in one article about how our run game was bland and fairly easy to stop. Another that Defillippo didn’t have enough experience, but had coached Foles and Wentz so well. There was talk of him being a head coach.

There was a piece that talked about Flip’s offense and Cousins fitting, but earlier in the process he said he only knew of Cousins from college giving a speech. They interviewed our quarterbacks and some others for the position.

In video interviews Rick is ecstatic and selling Cousins up. But again, he talks like a lawyer and knows how to spread it around. He takes credit for Zimmer too though.

Another article said that if Rick didn’t draft a linemen someone like his wife or something was gonna lock him out of the house.

I don’t know. I saw something go down last season and it stunk. I didn’t think it was just a weak line. The running game was horrible and Cook continued to be injured. That Rams game was big, but watching it again reminded me how hopeless this team was. Sputtering and flashes, but not very good.

It didn’t give me a lot of confidence in the squad, but Stef has been here a long time. I am kind of more optimistic about the offense with him and Kubiak. And as Dude said, Manning was one of the worst quarterbacks when he won the Super Bowl, or was it someone else saying Manning had the most yards when games were too far lost? Either way Kubiak played a role in winning with a broken Manning.

We could do it, but people really need to stfu about Cousins being a worth the money or even a very good quarterback. Something is messed up with his game. He gets erratic and frazzled fairly easily. Getting in his head doesn’t take much at all. Probably how Joe’s head is, but Joe is crazy, Kirk is just fragile minded.

It came up in a lot of articles about Cousins being someone who doesn’t let the lows get to him, how he liked that tiff with Adam on the sidelines, but it didn’t really seem believable the way people were writing about it.

We will be a fragile team that needs an amazing defense and coaching on offense. This is a total rebuild with the Shannahan system installation. Kind of like what Denver did.

This is the the problem... I know the media portrayed him as "the missing piece." His teammates did as well. Spielman never did. Lawyer speak or not, it's something that never happened but you literally posted that and attributed it as an actual quote from him.

You do this shit all the time. For example, your "garbage time" take is completely unfounded but you continually throw it out there as fact. You dismiss Peterson's impact on the success of the 2016 Vikings while also ignoring the complete ineptitude of the running game last year even though it's very clear that it was a huge impact on the outcome of each of those seasons.

There's plenty of things that Cousins and Spielman should be called out for. There's no reason to make things up.