Forbes: Cousins' Confidence Level and Execution Must Improve in 2019

[bubu dubu.]

You got issues Joe. Have a good night.

Sure. I told you what you're wrong about. You've yet to do that about these "luxuries" (excuses).

There's no point in discussing with you, because you just went off the rails already. You got real defensive and real aggressive really quick. And, you won't listen to anything I say because I'm a Wolves fan.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

You got issues Joe. Have a good night.

Sure. I told you what you're wrong about. You've yet to do that about these "luxuries" (excuses).

There's no point in discussing with you, because you just went off the rails already. You got real defensive and real aggressive really quick. And, you won't listen to anything I say because I'm a Wolves fan.

Hmmm...sounds like excuses to me.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

It's pretty simple, don't jump in and tell me what my argument is, which was your first post to me. Ask questions if you're unsure, that's what people do.

[cunningham]

What does that have to do with anything? I think you need to calm down a bit. This is my first time talking with you, and you are already in full defense mode after 3 posts.

I think it's funny because you clearly expect excellence. You have problems identifying excuses vs reasons given by a rube on a chat forum. Also unable to identify that the concepts listed all point to one or two gigantic issues from last year, and not 84 million separate reasons. Why wouldn't I point this out to you, when you quoted me?

I just think its a redundant excuse that "he needs time/he needs a better line/he needs better weapons..." people like pointing the finger anywhere but him. He's not a player that elevates the players around him. He needs the players around him to be excellent.

You are making total sense. When it was Keenum or Teddy who had success it was because of everyone but them, but Cousins’ performance last season was that everyone else failed. Especially the defense, offensive line, coach dying, and Flip being the worst coach to assemble an offense.

Keenum sucked and this team won in spite of him, but Cousins is elite and this team loses in spite of him. Quarterback doesn’t matter, but we have the best one since Favre now.

To summarize about a month of discourse.

From Joe and Ash and Dude and Simpson, and Dude is Simpson, but not Joe. Not to be confused with Hate, who just insults and occasionally drops something about football.

Catch-22 is that Cousins needs an elite team, but hard to sign elite guys when the contract limits that.

Value. Are you getting value with that chunk of the cap?

I say no, others say yes.

That is about where we are at. And a few threads arguing about Teddy Bridgewater.

You know, “the off-season” chatter.

Stats versus eye test. Like the article tries to discuss.

I say we passed more because we were losing more. Cousins would struggle. His stats are garbage because it came late in games against the prevent. “Others” say that Cousins would be better than Tom Brady if he just had time to throw the ball.

I say Cousins is all show, like in golf. But he cant’t putt for the dough and get the hard first downs.

About sums it up.

[cunningham]

And so our only hope is that Kubiak, Dennison, Stefanski, who has called 3 games in his career, are gonna right this ship and we are going to #Hoist it! And win the Super Bowl.

[PurpleHaze]

And so our only hope is that Kubiak, Dennison, Stefanski, who has called 3 games in his career, are gonna right this ship and we are going to #Hoist it! And win the Super Bowl.

Solid Oline coach, veteran coach to help the run game and help Stefanski when needed and a bright up and coming OC.

You would have to be a pure dumbass if you're being sarcastic.

[Ash Ketchum]

He just needs a good line, good play calling, and good players around him to succeed...well, alright then. Lets go get the perfect team for him to succeed!

Besides Brady, can you name a QB who’s recently won or even been to the Super Bowl without a strong team alongside him?

Its not just about needing a strong team, its that some people think the strengths of the team need to be catered around Kirk. The VIkings have a pretty strong and talented team, but its not catered to Kirk, so I guess thats the reason for the lack of team success last year.

What does that even mean?

Yeah, of course if the pass protection is horrible, it’s going to DIRECTLY affect Cousins’ production.

If you have zero running game and defenses can just sit in nickel all game and not fear getting burned on the ground, it’s going to DIRECTLY affect Cousins’ production.

When you have an OC who is worthy of getting fired midseason and make a major coaching change in the middle of the season, that’s not going to help either.

And even still, we got more out of our passing offense than we’ve seen since Favre statistically, which obviously isn’t as important as winning, but at the very least, it makes me pause and say that I’m willing to see what Cousins looks like with better circumstances this season rather than giving up on him or spouting nonsensical garbage about how Teddy or Keenum were better quarterbacks.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

And so our only hope is that Kubiak, Dennison, Stefanski, who has called 3 games in his career, are gonna right this ship and we are going to #Hoist it! And win the Super Bowl.

Why is it that your bar for Teddy is "almost won a playoff game", and for Cousins it's "do what no QB or team has done for the Vikings in history"?

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

Besides Brady, can you name a QB who’s recently won or even been to the Super Bowl without a strong team alongside him?

Its not just about needing a strong team, its that some people think the strengths of the team need to be catered around Kirk. The VIkings have a pretty strong and talented team, but its not catered to Kirk, so I guess thats the reason for the lack of team success last year.

What does that even mean?

Yeah, of course if the pass protection is horrible, it’s going to DIRECTLY affect Cousins’ production.

If you have zero running game and defenses can just sit in nickel all game and not fear getting burned on the ground, it’s going to DIRECTLY affect Cousins’ production.

When you have an OC who is worthy of getting fired midseason and make a major coaching change in the middle of the season, that’s not going to help either.

And even still, we got more out of our passing offense than we’ve seen since Favre statistically, which obviously isn’t as important as winning, but at the very least, it makes me pause and say that I’m willing to see what Cousins looks like with better circumstances this season rather than giving up on him or spouting nonsensical garbage about how Teddy or Keenum were better quarterbacks.

[bubu dubu.]

Besides Brady, can you name a QB who’s recently won or even been to the Super Bowl without a strong team alongside him?

Its not just about needing a strong team, its that some people think the strengths of the team need to be catered around Kirk. The VIkings have a pretty strong and talented team, but its not catered to Kirk, so I guess thats the reason for the lack of team success last year.

What does that even mean?

Yeah, of course if the pass protection is horrible, it’s going to DIRECTLY affect Cousins’ production.

If you have zero running game and defenses can just sit in nickel all game and not fear getting burned on the ground, it’s going to DIRECTLY affect Cousins’ production.

When you have an OC who is worthy of getting fired midseason and make a major coaching change in the middle of the season, that’s not going to help either.

And even still, we got more out of our passing offense than we’ve seen since Favre statistically, which obviously isn’t as important as winning, but at the very least, it makes me pause and say that I’m willing to see what Cousins looks like with better circumstances this season rather than giving up on him or spouting nonsensical garbage about how Teddy or Keenum were better quarterbacks.

Cousins has played more than one season in the NFL. Is any of his lack of team success on him?

Of course a better line would help him. Point is, is that he isnt the type of player that elevates those around him, he needs others to elevate him.
He cant buy time or improvise, so the line looked worse with him than it did with Case, a career journeyman.
The offense looked disoriented, in the past, the majority of Viking fans would blame the QB for this, but now its the coach for some reason.

Has Kirk made this team better, yes or no? If so, how so?

[cunningham]

And so our only hope is that Kubiak, Dennison, Stefanski, who has called 3 games in his career, are gonna right this ship and we are going to #Hoist it! And win the Super Bowl.

Solid Oline coach, veteran coach to help the run game and help Stefanski when needed and a bright up and coming OC.

You would have to be a pure dumbass if you're being sarcastic.

I’m not being sarcastic, I was expressing optimism while also summing up Sergeant Rubetube’s contribution. Hence the #Hoist.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

I think it's funny because you clearly expect excellence. You have problems identifying excuses vs reasons given by a rube on a chat forum. Also unable to identify that the concepts listed all point to one or two gigantic issues from last year, and not 84 million separate reasons. Why wouldn't I point this out to you, when you quoted me?

I just think its a redundant excuse that "he needs time/he needs a better line/he needs better weapons..." people like pointing the finger anywhere but him. He's not a player that elevates the players around him. He needs the players around him to be excellent.

You are making total sense. When it was Keenum or Teddy who had success it was because of everyone but them, but Cousins’ performance last season was that everyone else failed. Especially the defense, offensive line, coach dying, and Flip being the worst coach to assemble an offense.

Partially true for Keenum and Cousins (good for you!). Teddy indeed sucked.


Keenum sucked and this team won in spite of him, but Cousins is elite and this team loses in spite of him. Quarterback doesn’t matter, but we have the best one since Favre now.

To summarize about a month of discourse.

From Joe and Ash and Dude and Simpson, and Dude is Simpson, but not Joe. Not to be confused with Hate, who just insults and occasionally drops something about football.

Many people think you're a moron, even those that think there's a shred of truth to anything you've ever said.

Catch-22 is that Cousins needs an elite team, but hard to sign elite guys when the contract limits that.

Value. Are you getting value with that chunk of the cap?

I say no, others say yes.

That is about where we are at. And a few threads arguing about Teddy Bridgewater.

You know, “the off-season” chatter.

Stats versus eye test. Like the article tries to discuss.

I say we passed more because we were losing more. Cousins would struggle. His stats are garbage because it came late in games against the prevent. “Others” say that Cousins would be better than Tom Brady if he just had time to throw the ball.

That's been shown to be false multiple times, but you know, facts.

I say Cousins is all show, like in golf. But he cant’t putt for the dough and get the hard first downs.

About sums it up.

[silverjoel]

Bill Barnwell
@billbarnwell
Garbage time (drives starting with a win probability of 1% or less) leaders:

Passing yards: Matt Ryan (628), Kirk Cousins (610), Eli Manning (597)
Yards from scrimmage: Larry Fitzgerald (212), Adam Thielen (197), Jalen Richard (193), Julio Jones (188), Joe Mixon (175)
10:17 PM · Dec 19, 2018 · TweetDeck

[silverjoel]

But honestly, I can't believe you guys are at this crap again.

According to those here, the Vikings just don't have enough talent around Cousins. There's no way a QB can overcome any issues, correct? I bet a second year QB coming off of an ACL tear and being THE most pressured QB in 2018 while getting sacked the most could never bring a team to 10 wins and the playoffs. Well, I guess that happened with Watson. Even a QB that's not very good at throwing the ball in his rookie year can make the playoffs with the Ravens because he found other ways to make plays. Every team must just be more talented than the Vikings.

[Ash Ketchum]

But honestly, I can't believe you guys are at this crap again.

According to those here, the Vikings just don't have enough talent around Cousins. There's no way a QB can overcome any issues, correct? I bet a second year QB coming off of an ACL tear and being THE most pressured QB in 2018 while getting sacked the most could never bring a team to 10 wins and the playoffs. Well, I guess that happened with Watson. Even a QB that's not very good at throwing the ball in his rookie year can make the playoffs with the Ravens because he found other ways to make plays. Every team must just be more talented than the Vikings.

Cousins isn’t elite and isn’t perfect. I don’t know that anyone is saying he is.

But in Y2 of a three year deal, I’m just not willing to throw my hands up and declare Cousins a terrible QB given the circumstances he dealt with in 2018.

Comparing Lamar Jackson as a QB to Kirk Cousins is laughable.

[silverjoel]

But honestly, I can't believe you guys are at this crap again.

According to those here, the Vikings just don't have enough talent around Cousins. There's no way a QB can overcome any issues, correct? I bet a second year QB coming off of an ACL tear and being THE most pressured QB in 2018 while getting sacked the most could never bring a team to 10 wins and the playoffs. Well, I guess that happened with Watson. Even a QB that's not very good at throwing the ball in his rookie year can make the playoffs with the Ravens because he found other ways to make plays. Every team must just be more talented than the Vikings.

Cousins isn’t elite and isn’t perfect. I don’t know that anyone is saying he is.

But in Y2 of a three year deal, I’m just not willing to throw my hands up and declare Cousins a terrible QB given the circumstances he dealt with in 2018.

Comparing Lamar Jackson as a QB to Kirk Cousins is laughable.

What's laughable is a rookie QB that's not very good at throwing a football (58.2 comp%) had the same yards per pass attempt (and a much higher yards per completion) as a 7 year vet that completed over 70% of his passes and had much better receivers. I mean read that again, Lamar Jackson was just as efficient at throwing a football as Cousins; on average, every Jackson pass attempt went for the same yardage as Cousins. Lamar Jackson... It at least seems Jackson was aware enough to realize he couldn't rely on just his arm and therefore used his legs to help the Ravens win games. Or maybe the Ravens just have more talent than the Vikings.

[cunningham]

But honestly, I can't believe you guys are at this crap again.

According to those here, the Vikings just don't have enough talent around Cousins. There's no way a QB can overcome any issues, correct? I bet a second year QB coming off of an ACL tear and being THE most pressured QB in 2018 while getting sacked the most could never bring a team to 10 wins and the playoffs. Well, I guess that happened with Watson. Even a QB that's not very good at throwing the ball in his rookie year can make the playoffs with the Ravens because he found other ways to make plays. Every team must just be more talented than the Vikings.

Cousins isn’t elite and isn’t perfect. I don’t know that anyone is saying he is.

But in Y2 of a three year deal, I’m just not willing to throw my hands up and declare Cousins a terrible QB given the circumstances he dealt with in 2018.

Comparing Lamar Jackson as a QB to Kirk Cousins is laughable.

What's laughable is a rookie QB that's not very good at throwing a football (58.2 comp%) had the same yards per pass attempt (and a much higher yards per completion) as a 7 year vet that completed over 70% of his passes and had much better receivers. I mean read that again, Lamar Jackson was just as efficient at throwing a football as Cousins; on average, every Jackson pass attempt went for the same yardage as Cousins. Lamar Jackson... It at least seems Jackson was aware enough to realize he couldn't rely on just his arm and therefore used his legs to help the Ravens win games. Or maybe the Ravens just have more talent than the Vikings.

It doesn’t matter to these guys. I think the Vikings might have success this season if we take the ball out of Cousins’ hands on 3rd down. My issue with that is what we are paying him. I will watch every game this season and hope we find success. There are no more excuses though. None. Either Cousins plays like his paycheck or the paychecks from this team need to stop coming. Should he fail what pisses me off is that Rick Spielman will have wasted the talent on this team (Digg/Thielen peaking) and two more years of my life. When I knew before Cousins got here that he wasn’t nearly good enough. He doesn’t win enough and is over 30. Why not draft a Plan B?

I have hope, but I am not blind like some people here. Cousins is out quarterback next season. That is the reality. Maybe he gets lucky like Keenum was.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

But honestly, I can't believe you guys are at this crap again.

According to those here, the Vikings just don't have enough talent around Cousins. There's no way a QB can overcome any issues, correct? I bet a second year QB coming off of an ACL tear and being THE most pressured QB in 2018 while getting sacked the most could never bring a team to 10 wins and the playoffs. Well, I guess that happened with Watson. Even a QB that's not very good at throwing the ball in his rookie year can make the playoffs with the Ravens because he found other ways to make plays. Every team must just be more talented than the Vikings.

Cousins isn’t elite and isn’t perfect. I don’t know that anyone is saying he is.

But in Y2 of a three year deal, I’m just not willing to throw my hands up and declare Cousins a terrible QB given the circumstances he dealt with in 2018.

Comparing Lamar Jackson as a QB to Kirk Cousins is laughable.

What's laughable is a rookie QB that's not very good at throwing a football (58.2 comp%) had the same yards per pass attempt (and a much higher yards per completion) as a 7 year vet that completed over 70% of his passes and had much better receivers. I mean read that again, Lamar Jackson was just as efficient at throwing a football as Cousins; on average, every Jackson pass attempt went for the same yardage as Cousins. Lamar Jackson... It at least seems Jackson was aware enough to realize he couldn't rely on just his arm and therefore used his legs to help the Ravens win games. Or maybe the Ravens just have more talent than the Vikings.

Nope. They just didn't have an Offensive Coordinator that was so terrible at his job, he couldn't make it through the first season with the team.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

Bill Barnwell
@billbarnwell
Garbage time (drives starting with a win probability of 1% or less) leaders:

Passing yards: Matt Ryan (628), Kirk Cousins (610), Eli Manning (597)
Yards from scrimmage: Larry Fitzgerald (212), Adam Thielen (197), Jalen Richard (193), Julio Jones (188), Joe Mixon (175)
10:17 PM · Dec 19, 2018 · TweetDeck

Yards matter (suddenly)!

[twgerber]

I really don't see anyone saying KC needs an elite team around him or that he is elite. To put those statements out there is laughable. He will never play to his salary. That's what FA does - it distorts what players sign for relative to their real value. If you expect that the players that sign day 1 for crazy money will live up to those numbers well......

KC does need a decent oline - not the worst to succeed. All QB's do. It's pretty simple.

KC I thought overall started the year out well last year but then tailed off. He has to show end of year success - not just in the beginning of the year.

KC has to play better through out the whole year this year.

The vikings have enough talent to be a legit SB threat IMO and I am looking forward to the season.

[Hector]

Chad Graff
✔
@ChadGraff
Is there anything in OTAs or training camp that Mike Zimmer wants to see Kirk Cousins be better at? "With him," Zimmer said, "I don’t think it’s any of those things. It’s games – that’s where he’s got to play better.”

64
1:23 PM - Mar 26, 2019
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Zimmer just thinks he has to play better in games...no worries

[cunningham]

Chad Graff
✔
@ChadGraff
Is there anything in OTAs or training camp that Mike Zimmer wants to see Kirk Cousins be better at? "With him," Zimmer said, "I don’t think it’s any of those things. It’s games – that’s where he’s got to play better.”

64
1:23 PM - Mar 26, 2019
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Zimmer just thinks he has to play better in games...no worries

That is quite the quote, but I really like it. This is why I love Zimmer and don't want his legacy tied to Cousins. Cousins needs to step up his game, but since Spielman has some Manion guy and Sloter from the practice squad being groomed to take over we should be fine if Cousins doesn't work out.

Now the Cousins apologists will turn on Zimmer too. Kind of reminds me about what Childress said about TJackson. Looked good in practice, but folded in games.

[Dude]

But honestly, I can't believe you guys are at this crap again.

According to those here, the Vikings just don't have enough talent around Cousins. There's no way a QB can overcome any issues, correct? I bet a second year QB coming off of an ACL tear and being THE most pressured QB in 2018 while getting sacked the most could never bring a team to 10 wins and the playoffs. Well, I guess that happened with Watson. Even a QB that's not very good at throwing the ball in his rookie year can make the playoffs with the Ravens because he found other ways to make plays. Every team must just be more talented than the Vikings.

Cousins isn’t elite and isn’t perfect. I don’t know that anyone is saying he is.

But in Y2 of a three year deal, I’m just not willing to throw my hands up and declare Cousins a terrible QB given the circumstances he dealt with in 2018.

Comparing Lamar Jackson as a QB to Kirk Cousins is laughable.

What's laughable is a rookie QB that's not very good at throwing a football (58.2 comp%) had the same yards per pass attempt (and a much higher yards per completion) as a 7 year vet that completed over 70% of his passes and had much better receivers. I mean read that again, Lamar Jackson was just as efficient at throwing a football as Cousins; on average, every Jackson pass attempt went for the same yardage as Cousins. Lamar Jackson... It at least seems Jackson was aware enough to realize he couldn't rely on just his arm and therefore used his legs to help the Ravens win games. Or maybe the Ravens just have more talent than the Vikings.

Do you truly believe that Jackson passes just as well as Cousins? Jackson is a run-first quarterback in a run-first offense, and defenses played him as such. He didn't see the same type of defenses that Cousins did.

You're comparing apples to pencils at this point.

[Dude]

From Joe and Ash and Dude and Simpson, and Dude is Simpson, but not Joe. Not to be confused with Hate, who just insults and occasionally drops something about football.

You're an idiot. You can't debate the take so you're going the ad hominim route instead.

[Dude]

There are no more excuses though. None. Either Cousins plays like his paycheck or the paychecks from this team need to stop coming.

I think this is the part that continues to go over your head.

The paychecks aren't stopping for Cousins. That's what a "guaranteed contract" means. At what point do you stop pissing and moaning about water under the bridge and start looking at what they can/should/will do to improve this team over the next two seasons.

Everyone and their sister knows what the Vikings invested in Cousins. Everyone knows what's on the line.

[Ash Ketchum]

People who are arguing against Cousins are bringing up reasons he isn’t elite, which is hilarious because literally no one is saying that, at least I’m not.

Why is it controversial to state that Cousins deserves another season with better OL, better run game and play calling before we just treat him as a complete failure?

Also, whoever is arguing that Lamar Jackson is a better QB than Cousins, I dare you to call into KFAN with that take.

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

Chad Graff
✔
@ChadGraff
Is there anything in OTAs or training camp that Mike Zimmer wants to see Kirk Cousins be better at? "With him," Zimmer said, "I don’t think it’s any of those things. It’s games – that’s where he’s got to play better.”

64
1:23 PM - Mar 26, 2019
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Zimmer just thinks he has to play better in games...no worries

Shocker. Great point Hector! You're arguing against no one!

[Joe Bag 'O Donuts]

People who are arguing against Cousins are bringing up reasons he isn’t elite, which is hilarious because literally no one is saying that, at least I’m not.

Why is it controversial to state that Cousins deserves another season with better OL, better run game and play calling before we just treat him as a complete failure?

Also, whoever is arguing that Lamar Jackson is a better QB than Cousins, I dare you to call into KFAN with that take.

Yeah, no one said elite. Maybe Tube, but he can be hyperbolic.

[Dude]

People who are arguing against Cousins are bringing up reasons he isn’t elite, which is hilarious because literally no one is saying that, at least I’m not.

This. The typical argument seems to be that since they're paying him elite money he needs to provide elite results. That's not wrong in a vacuum, but when you look at free agency in the NFL (especially when applied to quarterbacks), it's not the case.

The Vikings paid the money to be settled at the quarterback spot. Cousins has always been an "above average"/tier 2 or 3 quarterback and that should have been the expectation. Whether or not you agree with the move is one thing, but to expect him to be an elite/top 5 quarterback means you're not paying attention.

[cunningham]

There are no more excuses though. None. Either Cousins plays like his paycheck or the paychecks from this team need to stop coming.

I think this is the part that continues to go over your head.

The paychecks aren't stopping for Cousins. That's what a "guaranteed contract" means. At what point do you stop pissing and moaning about water under the bridge and start looking at what they can/should/will do to improve this team over the next two seasons.

Everyone and their sister knows what the Vikings invested in Cousins. Everyone knows what's on the line.

The fewer times that Cousins throws, the fewer yards he has throwing, and the less we rely on him the better off this team will be. The more this team leans on Cousins the worse it gets. We must run the ball a whole hell of a lot more and not have Cousins throwing for over 250 yards in a game. He also shouldn't have more than about 40 attempts a game. We need to run the ball way more! If we run less than 20 times in a game and throw more than 40 we lose. Get the ball out of Cousin's hands and put it into our running back's. Hard to do that if you spot the other team a bunch of points early though.

Control the clock. If we can be on the + side of 30 minutes for TOP we should win the games.

3 and outs early and at the most crucial moments were the achilles heel of this team last season.