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Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

A place to discuss the MN Vikings
RubeTube
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Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by RubeTube »

PFF dropped this article today. Everyday there is a new "Amazing" stat that owns the Cousins haters soul's.

BACK WITH ANOTHER ONE!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ks-in-2018
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X

The Puppet Master
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Ash Ketchum »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:47 am PFF dropped this article today. Everyday there is a new "Amazing" stat that owns the Cousins haters soul's.

BACK WITH ANOTHER ONE!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ks-in-2018
Glad to see this.

It doesn’t mean everything, but redzone ability was a big knock on Kirk coming into last season.
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cunningham
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:47 am PFF dropped this article today. Everyday there is a new "Amazing" stat that owns the Cousins haters soul's.

BACK WITH ANOTHER ONE!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ks-in-2018
Are you being paid by Cousins' agent?

Cook was hurt a ton of the season with various injuries and DeFilippo didn't know how to run or call a running play to save his life.

To be that good in the redzone and yet lose so many games should further show how bad Flip was at the run. Also, why Zimmer fired him.

This is the issue I have with stats from last season. We had half the running plays of the previous season, so of course Cousins will have huge stats. There was no balance and we passed a ton late because we were either behind or tied. Our best running back was riding the pine. The one we used the previous year that helped lead this team to the NFC Championship Game was a non-factor and we dumped him.

I want to see what Cousins' stats are with a balanced attack. The stats from last season are garbage to me. The one stat that I look back at is that our team couldn't beat the Bears at home with their scrubs in there - season on the line. I've never in my life been more embarrassed of a Vikings' squad.

The last two seasons have ended in embarrassment. How you find time to come on here and brag about Cousins is beyond me. The guy should have to prove something. ANYTHING. Cousins needs to win something even slightly important for me to think he is our future.
Dude
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:15 am

Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Dude »

cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:12 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:47 am PFF dropped this article today. Everyday there is a new "Amazing" stat that owns the Cousins haters soul's.

BACK WITH ANOTHER ONE!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ks-in-2018
Are you being paid by Cousins' agent?

Cook was hurt a ton of the season with various injuries and DeFilippo didn't know how to run or call a running play to save his life.

To be that good in the redzone and yet lose so many games should further show how bad Flip was at the run. Also, why Zimmer fired him.

This is the issue I have with stats from last season. We had half the running plays of the previous season, so of course Cousins will have huge stats. There was no balance and we passed a ton late because we were either behind or tied. Our best running back was riding the pine. The one we used the previous year that helped lead this team to the NFC Championship Game was a non-factor and we dumped him.

I want to see what Cousins' stats are with a balanced attack. The stats from last season are garbage to me. The one stat that I look back at is that our team couldn't beat the Bears at home with their scrubs in there - season on the line. I've never in my life been more embarrassed of a Vikings' squad.

The last two seasons have ended in embarrassment. How you find time to come on here and brag about Cousins is beyond me. The guy should have to prove something. ANYTHING. Cousins needs to win something even slightly important for me to think he is our future.


Why do you get so offended when someone posts something positive about Cousins? The article isn't wrong, and your post doesn't address the point of the article.

It would appear that you didn't read the article, and for some reason are using the thread to find a way to bash Cousins even though your basis of your post is the fact the Vikings had shit play calling (per your post) and a garbage running game (per your post) which highlights the positives of the article.
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cunningham
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:28 am
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:12 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:47 am PFF dropped this article today. Everyday there is a new "Amazing" stat that owns the Cousins haters soul's.

BACK WITH ANOTHER ONE!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ks-in-2018
Are you being paid by Cousins' agent?

Cook was hurt a ton of the season with various injuries and DeFilippo didn't know how to run or call a running play to save his life.

To be that good in the redzone and yet lose so many games should further show how bad Flip was at the run. Also, why Zimmer fired him.

This is the issue I have with stats from last season. We had half the running plays of the previous season, so of course Cousins will have huge stats. There was no balance and we passed a ton late because we were either behind or tied. Our best running back was riding the pine. The one we used the previous year that helped lead this team to the NFC Championship Game was a non-factor and we dumped him.

I want to see what Cousins' stats are with a balanced attack. The stats from last season are garbage to me. The one stat that I look back at is that our team couldn't beat the Bears at home with their scrubs in there - season on the line. I've never in my life been more embarrassed of a Vikings' squad.

The last two seasons have ended in embarrassment. How you find time to come on here and brag about Cousins is beyond me. The guy should have to prove something. ANYTHING. Cousins needs to win something even slightly important for me to think he is our future.


Why do you get so offended when someone posts something positive about Cousins? The article isn't wrong, and your post doesn't address the point of the article.

It would appear that you didn't read the article, and for some reason are using the thread to find a way to bash Cousins even though your basis of your post is the fact the Vikings had shit play calling (per your post) and a garbage running game (per your post) which highlights the positives of the article.
He posts positive stuff about Cousins several times a day when he hasn't done jack squat. We have 5 prime time games and a quarterback who sucks at prime time games - along with a coach who also sucks at them.

I was highlighting the positives of the article. I was giving Cousins a ton of excuses.

How are you accepting that we lost at home to the Bears to end the season and they even pulled their starters? That sucked. It also sucked to go to Philly and just be flat out embarrassed in the NFC Championship game. These games were not even close. Then we were 8-7-1 last season after spending a fortune on a quarterback. We have mortgages everything for Cousins and if we don't do better than last season everything we have built is out the window.

I love this team. I'm pissed off. How some of you find a silver lining in last season is beyond me.
Dude
Posts: 1566
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Dude »

cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:09 am
Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:28 am
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:12 am

Are you being paid by Cousins' agent?

Cook was hurt a ton of the season with various injuries and DeFilippo didn't know how to run or call a running play to save his life.

To be that good in the redzone and yet lose so many games should further show how bad Flip was at the run. Also, why Zimmer fired him.

This is the issue I have with stats from last season. We had half the running plays of the previous season, so of course Cousins will have huge stats. There was no balance and we passed a ton late because we were either behind or tied. Our best running back was riding the pine. The one we used the previous year that helped lead this team to the NFC Championship Game was a non-factor and we dumped him.

I want to see what Cousins' stats are with a balanced attack. The stats from last season are garbage to me. The one stat that I look back at is that our team couldn't beat the Bears at home with their scrubs in there - season on the line. I've never in my life been more embarrassed of a Vikings' squad.

The last two seasons have ended in embarrassment. How you find time to come on here and brag about Cousins is beyond me. The guy should have to prove something. ANYTHING. Cousins needs to win something even slightly important for me to think he is our future.


Why do you get so offended when someone posts something positive about Cousins? The article isn't wrong, and your post doesn't address the point of the article.

It would appear that you didn't read the article, and for some reason are using the thread to find a way to bash Cousins even though your basis of your post is the fact the Vikings had shit play calling (per your post) and a garbage running game (per your post) which highlights the positives of the article.
He posts positive stuff about Cousins several times a day when he hasn't done jack squat. We have 5 prime time games and a quarterback who sucks at prime time games - along with a coach who also sucks at them.

I was highlighting the positives of the article. I was giving Cousins a ton of excuses.

How are you accepting that we lost at home to the Bears to end the season and they even pulled their starters? That sucked. It also sucked to go to Philly and just be flat out embarrassed in the NFC Championship game. These games were not even close. Then we were 8-7-1 last season after spending a fortune on a quarterback. We have mortgages everything for Cousins and if we don't do better than last season everything we have built is out the window.

I love this team. I'm pissed off. How some of you find a silver lining in last season is beyond me.
The thread is about his red zone stats, but you're using it as a platform to dump on him based on your unsupported bias against him. This has nothing to do with accepting the outcome of the Bears game, but highlights how you seem to find any reason to espouse the same nonsense over and over again.

In the sea of negativity surrounding Cousins that you seem to relish in, one would think that you would be able to see this as a beacon of hope and positivity. Instead, you're trying to turn this into a negative. It's bizarre.

**Edit- Also, WTF is wrong with finding reasons to be hopeful with the immediate future of the Vikings? You and I both know damn well that he's going to be the quarterback of the Vikings for better or worse over the next two seasons. You could try being less miserable about it. Nothing is going to change the facts.
Obi-Wan
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Obi-Wan »

cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:12 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:47 am PFF dropped this article today. Everyday there is a new "Amazing" stat that owns the Cousins haters soul's.

BACK WITH ANOTHER ONE!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ks-in-2018
Are you being paid by Cousins' agent?

Cook was hurt a ton of the season with various injuries and DeFilippo didn't know how to run or call a running play to save his life.

To be that good in the redzone and yet lose so many games should further show how bad Flip was at the run. Also, why Zimmer fired him.

This is the issue I have with stats from last season. We had half the running plays of the previous season, so of course Cousins will have huge stats. There was no balance and we passed a ton late because we were either behind or tied. Our best running back was riding the pine. The one we used the previous year that helped lead this team to the NFC Championship Game was a non-factor and we dumped him.

I want to see what Cousins' stats are with a balanced attack. The stats from last season are garbage to me. The one stat that I look back at is that our team couldn't beat the Bears at home with their scrubs in there - season on the line. I've never in my life been more embarrassed of a Vikings' squad.

The last two seasons have ended in embarrassment. How you find time to come on here and brag about Cousins is beyond me. The guy should have to prove something. ANYTHING. Cousins needs to win something even slightly important for me to think he is our future.
Are you sure you were not more embarassed during the Buffalo game? There were several embarrassing performances last year.
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cunningham
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:47 am
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:09 am
Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:28 am

Why do you get so offended when someone posts something positive about Cousins? The article isn't wrong, and your post doesn't address the point of the article.

It would appear that you didn't read the article, and for some reason are using the thread to find a way to bash Cousins even though your basis of your post is the fact the Vikings had shit play calling (per your post) and a garbage running game (per your post) which highlights the positives of the article.
He posts positive stuff about Cousins several times a day when he hasn't done jack squat. We have 5 prime time games and a quarterback who sucks at prime time games - along with a coach who also sucks at them.

I was highlighting the positives of the article. I was giving Cousins a ton of excuses.

How are you accepting that we lost at home to the Bears to end the season and they even pulled their starters? That sucked. It also sucked to go to Philly and just be flat out embarrassed in the NFC Championship game. These games were not even close. Then we were 8-7-1 last season after spending a fortune on a quarterback. We have mortgages everything for Cousins and if we don't do better than last season everything we have built is out the window.

I love this team. I'm pissed off. How some of you find a silver lining in last season is beyond me.
The thread is about his red zone stats, but you're using it as a platform to dump on him based on your unsupported bias against him. This has nothing to do with accepting the outcome of the Bears game, but highlights how you seem to find any reason to espouse the same nonsense over and over again.

In the sea of negativity surrounding Cousins that you seem to relish in, one would think that you would be able to see this as a beacon of hope and positivity. Instead, you're trying to turn this into a negative. It's bizarre.

**Edit- Also, WTF is wrong with finding reasons to be hopeful with the immediate future of the Vikings? You and I both know damn well that he's going to be the quarterback of the Vikings for better or worse over the next two seasons. You could try being less miserable about it. Nothing is going to change the facts.
I'm frustrated. I'm so sick of sitting here at draft time and being all hopeful for our team that usually look good on paper in the offseason. Enough is enough though. This team has to get over the hump or we need to rebuild. I'm just sick of RS and the "All-in" BS. Our offensive line sucks and we have a quarterback for two more years that needs one hell of an offensive line. I feel like we will be middle of the road next season, but is that good enough? We've been sitting at this same level for my entire life. I hear about Super Bowl appearances back in the 1970s, but we are not getting over that hump. I was pretty down after they crapped the bed against the Eagles too, but then we got worse. Then I come here and LubeTube is writing like we have Brett Frickin' Favre out there. It is like shagging the hottest girl in the crappiest bar. Yeah, she is decent compared to the others, but she is still a 3.

I am not sure how anyone has hope at this point in this team. I mean we are not as bad as the Lions, but we are just slightly better. This defense can't overcome a guy who goes 3 and out early in games as often as a Bradford or Cousins does. This offensive line can't stop a rush when a quarterback holds the ball too long.

I'm tired of being crabby about the team. Cousins hasn't won anything in his entire career. He has one playoff appearance against the Packers team we beat with Teddy and AP to win the North. That Packers team came to Washington and spanked them. When you look at Cousins this is what he is every single year. Why would he change now? The Bears game was just further evidence that he isn't gonna get us to the promised land.

He had the best offensive minds in the NFL in Washington and still was crappy. He will get us just good enough to not be able to draft a quarterback high. Just like Bradford.
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cunningham
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

Obi-Wan wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:31 am
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:12 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:47 am PFF dropped this article today. Everyday there is a new "Amazing" stat that owns the Cousins haters soul's.

BACK WITH ANOTHER ONE!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ks-in-2018
Are you being paid by Cousins' agent?

Cook was hurt a ton of the season with various injuries and DeFilippo didn't know how to run or call a running play to save his life.

To be that good in the redzone and yet lose so many games should further show how bad Flip was at the run. Also, why Zimmer fired him.

This is the issue I have with stats from last season. We had half the running plays of the previous season, so of course Cousins will have huge stats. There was no balance and we passed a ton late because we were either behind or tied. Our best running back was riding the pine. The one we used the previous year that helped lead this team to the NFC Championship Game was a non-factor and we dumped him.

I want to see what Cousins' stats are with a balanced attack. The stats from last season are garbage to me. The one stat that I look back at is that our team couldn't beat the Bears at home with their scrubs in there - season on the line. I've never in my life been more embarrassed of a Vikings' squad.

The last two seasons have ended in embarrassment. How you find time to come on here and brag about Cousins is beyond me. The guy should have to prove something. ANYTHING. Cousins needs to win something even slightly important for me to think he is our future.
Are you sure you were not more embarassed during the Buffalo game? There were several embarrassing performances last year.
Buffalo saw something on film I believe, but yeah, you win that game at home and you are in the playoffs. Typical of this squad to lose a game like that. That Bears game is just indicative of Cousins' career. Season on the line, at home, 2nd stringers, but folds like bad origami.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Ash Ketchum »

cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:29 pm
Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:47 am
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:09 am

He posts positive stuff about Cousins several times a day when he hasn't done jack squat. We have 5 prime time games and a quarterback who sucks at prime time games - along with a coach who also sucks at them.

I was highlighting the positives of the article. I was giving Cousins a ton of excuses.

How are you accepting that we lost at home to the Bears to end the season and they even pulled their starters? That sucked. It also sucked to go to Philly and just be flat out embarrassed in the NFC Championship game. These games were not even close. Then we were 8-7-1 last season after spending a fortune on a quarterback. We have mortgages everything for Cousins and if we don't do better than last season everything we have built is out the window.

I love this team. I'm pissed off. How some of you find a silver lining in last season is beyond me.
The thread is about his red zone stats, but you're using it as a platform to dump on him based on your unsupported bias against him. This has nothing to do with accepting the outcome of the Bears game, but highlights how you seem to find any reason to espouse the same nonsense over and over again.

In the sea of negativity surrounding Cousins that you seem to relish in, one would think that you would be able to see this as a beacon of hope and positivity. Instead, you're trying to turn this into a negative. It's bizarre.

**Edit- Also, WTF is wrong with finding reasons to be hopeful with the immediate future of the Vikings? You and I both know damn well that he's going to be the quarterback of the Vikings for better or worse over the next two seasons. You could try being less miserable about it. Nothing is going to change the facts.
I'm frustrated. I'm so sick of sitting here at draft time and being all hopeful for our team that usually look good on paper in the offseason. Enough is enough though. This team has to get over the hump or we need to rebuild. I'm just sick of RS and the "All-in" BS. Our offensive line sucks and we have a quarterback for two more years that needs one hell of an offensive line. I feel like we will be middle of the road next season, but is that good enough? We've been sitting at this same level for my entire life. I hear about Super Bowl appearances back in the 1970s, but we are not getting over that hump. I was pretty down after they crapped the bed against the Eagles too, but then we got worse. Then I come here and LubeTube is writing like we have Brett Frickin' Favre out there. It is like shagging the hottest girl in the crappiest bar. Yeah, she is decent compared to the others, but she is still a 3.

I am not sure how anyone has hope at this point in this team. I mean we are not as bad as the Lions, but we are just slightly better. This defense can't overcome a guy who goes 3 and out early in games as often as a Bradford or Cousins does. This offensive line can't stop a rush when a quarterback holds the ball too long.

I'm tired of being crabby about the team. Cousins hasn't won anything in his entire career. He has one playoff appearance against the Packers team we beat with Teddy and AP to win the North. That Packers team came to Washington and spanked them. When you look at Cousins this is what he is every single year. Why would he change now? The Bears game was just further evidence that he isn't gonna get us to the promised land.

He had the best offensive minds in the NFL in Washington and still was crappy. He will get us just good enough to not be able to draft a quarterback high. Just like Bradford.
Which realistic QB option did you want last offseason, and what’s your alternative this offseason?

What’s the point of whining about it if you’re not doing to pose an alternative for discussion’s sake?
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cunningham
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:33 pm
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:29 pm
Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:47 am

The thread is about his red zone stats, but you're using it as a platform to dump on him based on your unsupported bias against him. This has nothing to do with accepting the outcome of the Bears game, but highlights how you seem to find any reason to espouse the same nonsense over and over again.

In the sea of negativity surrounding Cousins that you seem to relish in, one would think that you would be able to see this as a beacon of hope and positivity. Instead, you're trying to turn this into a negative. It's bizarre.

**Edit- Also, WTF is wrong with finding reasons to be hopeful with the immediate future of the Vikings? You and I both know damn well that he's going to be the quarterback of the Vikings for better or worse over the next two seasons. You could try being less miserable about it. Nothing is going to change the facts.
I'm frustrated. I'm so sick of sitting here at draft time and being all hopeful for our team that usually look good on paper in the offseason. Enough is enough though. This team has to get over the hump or we need to rebuild. I'm just sick of RS and the "All-in" BS. Our offensive line sucks and we have a quarterback for two more years that needs one hell of an offensive line. I feel like we will be middle of the road next season, but is that good enough? We've been sitting at this same level for my entire life. I hear about Super Bowl appearances back in the 1970s, but we are not getting over that hump. I was pretty down after they crapped the bed against the Eagles too, but then we got worse. Then I come here and LubeTube is writing like we have Brett Frickin' Favre out there. It is like shagging the hottest girl in the crappiest bar. Yeah, she is decent compared to the others, but she is still a 3.

I am not sure how anyone has hope at this point in this team. I mean we are not as bad as the Lions, but we are just slightly better. This defense can't overcome a guy who goes 3 and out early in games as often as a Bradford or Cousins does. This offensive line can't stop a rush when a quarterback holds the ball too long.

I'm tired of being crabby about the team. Cousins hasn't won anything in his entire career. He has one playoff appearance against the Packers team we beat with Teddy and AP to win the North. That Packers team came to Washington and spanked them. When you look at Cousins this is what he is every single year. Why would he change now? The Bears game was just further evidence that he isn't gonna get us to the promised land.

He had the best offensive minds in the NFL in Washington and still was crappy. He will get us just good enough to not be able to draft a quarterback high. Just like Bradford.
Which realistic QB option did you want last offseason, and what’s your alternative this offseason?

What’s the point of whining about it if you’re not doing to pose an alternative for discussion’s sake?
I really wanted us to take Lamar Jackson in the last draft. Mahomes would have been worth trading up for. I'd like to see us trade a 2nd and a player for Rosen if that is still on the table.

I feel like it doesn't matter because the problem is Spielman. He can't evaluate a quarterback, which is the most important position on a team. His history at the position is horrible. Until he is gone we are screwed. My only solace is that when Cousins doesn't succeed we will be done with the RS era. I just don't want Zimmer to get the axe for it.

I haven't looked much at the quarterbacks this year because I know there is no way in hell we take one. The top two seem decent, but there is a fall off.

Lamar Jackson might not be that great in the end either, but we'll never know what he would have been like here.
Dude
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:15 am

Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Dude »

cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:49 pm
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:33 pm
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:29 pm

I'm frustrated. I'm so sick of sitting here at draft time and being all hopeful for our team that usually look good on paper in the offseason. Enough is enough though. This team has to get over the hump or we need to rebuild. I'm just sick of RS and the "All-in" BS. Our offensive line sucks and we have a quarterback for two more years that needs one hell of an offensive line. I feel like we will be middle of the road next season, but is that good enough? We've been sitting at this same level for my entire life. I hear about Super Bowl appearances back in the 1970s, but we are not getting over that hump. I was pretty down after they crapped the bed against the Eagles too, but then we got worse. Then I come here and LubeTube is writing like we have Brett Frickin' Favre out there. It is like shagging the hottest girl in the crappiest bar. Yeah, she is decent compared to the others, but she is still a 3.

I am not sure how anyone has hope at this point in this team. I mean we are not as bad as the Lions, but we are just slightly better. This defense can't overcome a guy who goes 3 and out early in games as often as a Bradford or Cousins does. This offensive line can't stop a rush when a quarterback holds the ball too long.

I'm tired of being crabby about the team. Cousins hasn't won anything in his entire career. He has one playoff appearance against the Packers team we beat with Teddy and AP to win the North. That Packers team came to Washington and spanked them. When you look at Cousins this is what he is every single year. Why would he change now? The Bears game was just further evidence that he isn't gonna get us to the promised land.

He had the best offensive minds in the NFL in Washington and still was crappy. He will get us just good enough to not be able to draft a quarterback high. Just like Bradford.
Which realistic QB option did you want last offseason, and what’s your alternative this offseason?

What’s the point of whining about it if you’re not doing to pose an alternative for discussion’s sake?
I really wanted us to take Lamar Jackson in the last draft. Mahomes would have been worth trading up for. I'd like to see us trade a 2nd and a player for Rosen if that is still on the table.

I feel like it doesn't matter because the problem is Spielman. He can't evaluate a quarterback, which is the most important position on a team. His history at the position is horrible. Until he is gone we are screwed. My only solace is that when Cousins doesn't succeed we will be done with the RS era. I just don't want Zimmer to get the axe for it.

I haven't looked much at the quarterbacks this year because I know there is no way in hell we take one. The top two seem decent, but there is a fall off.

Lamar Jackson might not be that great in the end either, but we'll never know what he would have been like here.
Lamar Jackson isn't walking through those doors any time soon, and neither is any highly drafted quarterback this spring. You can wish for it all you want but you have to realize that it's not going to happen.

So now, what would you like to see for the Vikings to improve from a realistic perspective? Continually pissing and moaning about shoulda/coulda/woulda is one thing if you're offering potential solutions but you don't seem to want to do that.
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cunningham
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:02 pm
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:49 pm
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:33 pm

Which realistic QB option did you want last offseason, and what’s your alternative this offseason?

What’s the point of whining about it if you’re not doing to pose an alternative for discussion’s sake?
I really wanted us to take Lamar Jackson in the last draft. Mahomes would have been worth trading up for. I'd like to see us trade a 2nd and a player for Rosen if that is still on the table.

I feel like it doesn't matter because the problem is Spielman. He can't evaluate a quarterback, which is the most important position on a team. His history at the position is horrible. Until he is gone we are screwed. My only solace is that when Cousins doesn't succeed we will be done with the RS era. I just don't want Zimmer to get the axe for it.

I haven't looked much at the quarterbacks this year because I know there is no way in hell we take one. The top two seem decent, but there is a fall off.

Lamar Jackson might not be that great in the end either, but we'll never know what he would have been like here.
Lamar Jackson isn't walking through those doors any time soon, and neither is any highly drafted quarterback this spring. You can wish for it all you want but you have to realize that it's not going to happen.

So now, what would you like to see for the Vikings to improve from a realistic perspective? Continually pissing and moaning about shoulda/coulda/woulda is one thing if you're offering potential solutions but you don't seem to want to do that.
The question was who I would have liked to have seen drafted. Lamar Jackson was there.

I want Rick Spielman gone. I wanted him fired, but he got extended. Until that happens we are screwed as a team. I don't like it that Zimmer and Spielman are connected. I want someone who can evaluate college quarterbacks. Someone with a track record of taking really great offensive linemen as well.

Cousins is just another example of Spielman's ineptitude.

The next item I would like to see is us take a running back in round 1 or 2. Cook has not proved he is reliable at all. At 18 running back might be a reach, but taking a CB in round 1 last year was asinine.

Those would be great starts. I do like that we brought in Kubiak and I am praying we can get a decent running game. If we can be a great running team it will make up for having a mediocre quarterback. If Cousins was cheaper it would help tremendously. His contract is the elephant in the room.

I don't think we can build the offensive line that Cousins needs, but if we can run the ball with a few stud guys we might be able to make the playoffs. Kubiak inspires a lot more confidence than Stefanski did with me.
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twgerber
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by twgerber »

I will say that Rick has the final say on the draft choices and FA's but he isn't doing that in a vacuum. To me part of the issue is the whole scouting dept.

They build the lists, rankings, and recommendations. They build this partially based on input from the coaches.

It's not just one person failing at QB/Oline it's multiple and there should be changes at each of those points soon if things remain as they were last year.

I will wait until the season plays out to make a final call in my own mind but if it remains the same the whole FO and Coaching staff are gone.
GM Spielman:
  • Record 62-48-2 (.559 winning %)
  • Playoffs 1-3
  • 7 years - reached playoffs 3 times.
  • Winner of the North 2 of last 4 years
Zimmer is 48-33-1
PurpleFloyd
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by PurpleFloyd »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:33 pm
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:29 pm
Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:47 am

The thread is about his red zone stats, but you're using it as a platform to dump on him based on your unsupported bias against him. This has nothing to do with accepting the outcome of the Bears game, but highlights how you seem to find any reason to espouse the same nonsense over and over again.

In the sea of negativity surrounding Cousins that you seem to relish in, one would think that you would be able to see this as a beacon of hope and positivity. Instead, you're trying to turn this into a negative. It's bizarre.

**Edit- Also, WTF is wrong with finding reasons to be hopeful with the immediate future of the Vikings? You and I both know damn well that he's going to be the quarterback of the Vikings for better or worse over the next two seasons. You could try being less miserable about it. Nothing is going to change the facts.
I'm frustrated. I'm so sick of sitting here at draft time and being all hopeful for our team that usually look good on paper in the offseason. Enough is enough though. This team has to get over the hump or we need to rebuild. I'm just sick of RS and the "All-in" BS. Our offensive line sucks and we have a quarterback for two more years that needs one hell of an offensive line. I feel like we will be middle of the road next season, but is that good enough? We've been sitting at this same level for my entire life. I hear about Super Bowl appearances back in the 1970s, but we are not getting over that hump. I was pretty down after they crapped the bed against the Eagles too, but then we got worse. Then I come here and LubeTube is writing like we have Brett Frickin' Favre out there. It is like shagging the hottest girl in the crappiest bar. Yeah, she is decent compared to the others, but she is still a 3.

I am not sure how anyone has hope at this point in this team. I mean we are not as bad as the Lions, but we are just slightly better. This defense can't overcome a guy who goes 3 and out early in games as often as a Bradford or Cousins does. This offensive line can't stop a rush when a quarterback holds the ball too long.

I'm tired of being crabby about the team. Cousins hasn't won anything in his entire career. He has one playoff appearance against the Packers team we beat with Teddy and AP to win the North. That Packers team came to Washington and spanked them. When you look at Cousins this is what he is every single year. Why would he change now? The Bears game was just further evidence that he isn't gonna get us to the promised land.

He had the best offensive minds in the NFL in Washington and still was crappy. He will get us just good enough to not be able to draft a quarterback high. Just like Bradford.
Which realistic QB option did you want last offseason, and what’s your alternative this offseason?

What’s the point of whining about it if you’re not doing to pose an alternative for discussion’s sake?
You are not new around here. He wanted Teddy and since he didn't get him there will be no QB he will be happy with. He also ripped Case the whole season he was here.
In Kwesi we trust.
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by PurpleFloyd »

cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:34 pm
Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:02 pm
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:49 pm

I really wanted us to take Lamar Jackson in the last draft. Mahomes would have been worth trading up for. I'd like to see us trade a 2nd and a player for Rosen if that is still on the table.

I feel like it doesn't matter because the problem is Spielman. He can't evaluate a quarterback, which is the most important position on a team. His history at the position is horrible. Until he is gone we are screwed. My only solace is that when Cousins doesn't succeed we will be done with the RS era. I just don't want Zimmer to get the axe for it.

I haven't looked much at the quarterbacks this year because I know there is no way in hell we take one. The top two seem decent, but there is a fall off.

Lamar Jackson might not be that great in the end either, but we'll never know what he would have been like here.
Lamar Jackson isn't walking through those doors any time soon, and neither is any highly drafted quarterback this spring. You can wish for it all you want but you have to realize that it's not going to happen.

So now, what would you like to see for the Vikings to improve from a realistic perspective? Continually pissing and moaning about shoulda/coulda/woulda is one thing if you're offering potential solutions but you don't seem to want to do that.
The question was who I would have liked to have seen drafted. Lamar Jackson was there.

I want Rick Spielman gone. I wanted him fired, but he got extended. Until that happens we are screwed as a team. I don't like it that Zimmer and Spielman are connected. I want someone who can evaluate college quarterbacks. Someone with a track record of taking really great offensive linemen as well.

Cousins is just another example of Spielman's ineptitude.

The next item I would like to see is us take a running back in round 1 or 2. Cook has not proved he is reliable at all. At 18 running back might be a reach, but taking a CB in round 1 last year was asinine.

Those would be great starts. I do like that we brought in Kubiak and I am praying we can get a decent running game. If we can be a great running team it will make up for having a mediocre quarterback. If Cousins was cheaper it would help tremendously. His contract is the elephant in the room.

I don't think we can build the offensive line that Cousins needs, but if we can run the ball with a few stud guys we might be able to make the playoffs. Kubiak inspires a lot more confidence than Stefanski did with me.
Wow.
Not sure if serious.

If you think Lamar Jackson was an upgrade over cousins you need to reevaluate your football analysis.

And Rick gave the team enough talent to win. Our problem was not that we had no talent but that we had terrible coaching so if blame is to be given, then that is where it needs to be placed.
In Kwesi we trust.
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cunningham
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

PurpleFloyd wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:49 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:33 pm
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:29 pm

I'm frustrated. I'm so sick of sitting here at draft time and being all hopeful for our team that usually look good on paper in the offseason. Enough is enough though. This team has to get over the hump or we need to rebuild. I'm just sick of RS and the "All-in" BS. Our offensive line sucks and we have a quarterback for two more years that needs one hell of an offensive line. I feel like we will be middle of the road next season, but is that good enough? We've been sitting at this same level for my entire life. I hear about Super Bowl appearances back in the 1970s, but we are not getting over that hump. I was pretty down after they crapped the bed against the Eagles too, but then we got worse. Then I come here and LubeTube is writing like we have Brett Frickin' Favre out there. It is like shagging the hottest girl in the crappiest bar. Yeah, she is decent compared to the others, but she is still a 3.

I am not sure how anyone has hope at this point in this team. I mean we are not as bad as the Lions, but we are just slightly better. This defense can't overcome a guy who goes 3 and out early in games as often as a Bradford or Cousins does. This offensive line can't stop a rush when a quarterback holds the ball too long.

I'm tired of being crabby about the team. Cousins hasn't won anything in his entire career. He has one playoff appearance against the Packers team we beat with Teddy and AP to win the North. That Packers team came to Washington and spanked them. When you look at Cousins this is what he is every single year. Why would he change now? The Bears game was just further evidence that he isn't gonna get us to the promised land.

He had the best offensive minds in the NFL in Washington and still was crappy. He will get us just good enough to not be able to draft a quarterback high. Just like Bradford.
Which realistic QB option did you want last offseason, and what’s your alternative this offseason?

What’s the point of whining about it if you’re not doing to pose an alternative for discussion’s sake?
You are not new around here. He wanted Teddy and since he didn't get him there will be no QB he will be happy with. He also ripped Case the whole season he was here.
I wanted Teddy. Yes. He was the Pepsi the Rookie of the Year. Made the Pro Bowl in his first year as a starter. Led the team to the playoffs.

That is more than Cousins did. We can make excuses and say that it was AP, but Favre had AP too. Anyway, when Teddy got hurt that ended that. Zimmer kind of led on the fan base and made people like me believe Teddy might come back. I stood by our guy. Sorry for being a homer.

I ripped on Bradford and Cousins, but I wasn't very critical of Keenum. He was erratic and could give you a heart attack while watching him out there, but I would have gladly taken him over Cousins last season. Keenum lacked a ton, but he made up for it with his ability to buy time in the pocket.
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cunningham
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

PurpleFloyd wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:01 am
cunningham wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:34 pm
Dude wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:02 pm

Lamar Jackson isn't walking through those doors any time soon, and neither is any highly drafted quarterback this spring. You can wish for it all you want but you have to realize that it's not going to happen.

So now, what would you like to see for the Vikings to improve from a realistic perspective? Continually pissing and moaning about shoulda/coulda/woulda is one thing if you're offering potential solutions but you don't seem to want to do that.
The question was who I would have liked to have seen drafted. Lamar Jackson was there.

I want Rick Spielman gone. I wanted him fired, but he got extended. Until that happens we are screwed as a team. I don't like it that Zimmer and Spielman are connected. I want someone who can evaluate college quarterbacks. Someone with a track record of taking really great offensive linemen as well.

Cousins is just another example of Spielman's ineptitude.

The next item I would like to see is us take a running back in round 1 or 2. Cook has not proved he is reliable at all. At 18 running back might be a reach, but taking a CB in round 1 last year was asinine.

Those would be great starts. I do like that we brought in Kubiak and I am praying we can get a decent running game. If we can be a great running team it will make up for having a mediocre quarterback. If Cousins was cheaper it would help tremendously. His contract is the elephant in the room.

I don't think we can build the offensive line that Cousins needs, but if we can run the ball with a few stud guys we might be able to make the playoffs. Kubiak inspires a lot more confidence than Stefanski did with me.
Wow.
Not sure if serious.

If you think Lamar Jackson was an upgrade over cousins you need to reevaluate your football analysis.

And Rick gave the team enough talent to win. Our problem was not that we had no talent but that we had terrible coaching so if blame is to be given, then that is where it needs to be placed.
Not what I said. I said that Lamar Jackson was there and we should have drafted him. I didn't say that Lamar Jackson as a rookie is better than a 31 year old Kirk Cousins. Money is also a factor. Jackson would allow you to build a line with the money you would have and get some studs in there.

I pray Cousins proves me wrong. I have said I will change my avatar to Cousins if he can become a great quarterback. Until then Mr. Cunningham occupies that space.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Ash Ketchum »

cunningham wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 am
PurpleFloyd wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:49 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:33 pm

Which realistic QB option did you want last offseason, and what’s your alternative this offseason?

What’s the point of whining about it if you’re not doing to pose an alternative for discussion’s sake?
You are not new around here. He wanted Teddy and since he didn't get him there will be no QB he will be happy with. He also ripped Case the whole season he was here.
I wanted Teddy. Yes. He was the Pepsi the Rookie of the Year. Made the Pro Bowl in his first year as a starter. Led the team to the playoffs.

That is more than Cousins did. We can make excuses and say that it was AP, but Favre had AP too. Anyway, when Teddy got hurt that ended that. Zimmer kind of led on the fan base and made people like me believe Teddy might come back. I stood by our guy. Sorry for being a homer.

I ripped on Bradford and Cousins, but I wasn't very critical of Keenum. He was erratic and could give you a heart attack while watching him out there, but I would have gladly taken him over Cousins last season. Keenum lacked a ton, but he made up for it with his ability to buy time in the pocket.
My god, I thought I’d never again have to hear people trying to support the ridiculous claim that Bridgewater was a great QB by using the “Pepsi Rookie of the Year” and the Pro Bowl as main arguments.

Vince Young and Andy Dalton made Pro Bowls.
Dude
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Dude »

cunningham wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 am I wanted Teddy. Yes. He was the Pepsi the Rookie of the Year. Made the Pro Bowl in his first year as a starter. Led the team to the playoffs.
The Vikings finished 4th in rushing offense in 2015 with AP going for almost 1,500 yards by himself, and finished 31st in passing offense.

Teddy did not lead them to the playoffs.
silverjoel
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by silverjoel »

Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:07 am
cunningham wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 am I wanted Teddy. Yes. He was the Pepsi the Rookie of the Year. Made the Pro Bowl in his first year as a starter. Led the team to the playoffs.
The Vikings finished 4th in rushing offense in 2015 with AP going for almost 1,500 yards by himself, and finished 31st in passing offense.

Teddy did not lead them to the playoffs.
Buffalo finished 1st in rushing, why were they only 8-8? Tampa finished 5th in rushing and had over 4000 yards from Winston, why were they 6-10?

Fun fact, the lowest 3-and-out percentage in the Vikings offensive history was 2015 at 15.7%. Substantially better than 2012 (23.2%) when Peterson rushed for over 2000 yards. Maybe it wasn't all Peterson.
silverjoel
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by silverjoel »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:47 am PFF dropped this article today. Everyday there is a new "Amazing" stat that owns the Cousins haters soul's.

BACK WITH ANOTHER ONE!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... ks-in-2018
And yet the Vikings were 21st in red zone TD% (54%) and 26th in points per red zone at 4.64 points per red zone trip. Another stat that looks good for Cousins, but bad for the team.

Edit: Brees and the Saints were 5th and 3rd respectively.
Dude
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Dude »

silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:48 am
Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:07 am
cunningham wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 am I wanted Teddy. Yes. He was the Pepsi the Rookie of the Year. Made the Pro Bowl in his first year as a starter. Led the team to the playoffs.
The Vikings finished 4th in rushing offense in 2015 with AP going for almost 1,500 yards by himself, and finished 31st in passing offense.

Teddy did not lead them to the playoffs.
Buffalo finished 1st in rushing, why were they only 8-8? Tampa finished 5th in rushing and had over 4000 yards from Winston, why were they 6-10?

Fun fact, the lowest 3-and-out percentage in the Vikings offensive history was 2015 at 15.7%. Substantially better than 2012 (23.2%) when Peterson rushed for over 2000 yards. Maybe it wasn't all Peterson.
So do you agree with Cunningham that Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015? Because I don't. Even if you did, wouldn't you logically agree that there's a stronger argument to say that Cousins "led" the Redskins to the playoffs in his first year as a starter when you consider the Redskins finished 27th in total defense and 20th in rushing offense in 2015?

I'm not going to chase down your strawman argument about the Bills and Buccaneers.
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by silverjoel »

Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:28 pm
silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:48 am
Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:07 am

The Vikings finished 4th in rushing offense in 2015 with AP going for almost 1,500 yards by himself, and finished 31st in passing offense.

Teddy did not lead them to the playoffs.
Buffalo finished 1st in rushing, why were they only 8-8? Tampa finished 5th in rushing and had over 4000 yards from Winston, why were they 6-10?

Fun fact, the lowest 3-and-out percentage in the Vikings offensive history was 2015 at 15.7%. Substantially better than 2012 (23.2%) when Peterson rushed for over 2000 yards. Maybe it wasn't all Peterson.
So do you agree with Cunningham that Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015? Because I don't. Even if you did, wouldn't you logically agree that there's a stronger argument to say that Cousins "led" the Redskins to the playoffs in his first year as a starter when you consider the Redskins finished 27th in total defense and 20th in rushing offense in 2015?

I'm not going to chase down your strawman argument about the Bills and Buccaneers.
Sure, Cousins led the Redskins to the playoffs in 2015 with a 9-7 record having only played 3 teams with a winning record (lost all of those games). And no, logically there's not a stronger argument for Cousins. Having one of the easiest schedules in a bad division is a much stronger argument.

Since 1978 (the start of the 16 game schedule), the Vikings have won 11 or more games 7 times. That's it. I understand back in the Vikings SB years there were more, so if you want to argue that, go ahead. So, with the combination of Bridgewater and Peterson, the Vikings did something that has only happened 6 other times in the last 40+ years. The only time Peterson won more games was with Favre as QB (12-4).
Two of the best 3-and-out percentages in Vikings history came in 2014 and 2015 (with 2015 being the best ever). Both better than with Farve, better than 2017, better than any year since the early 2000s (I want to say 2003). 2014 was, of course, without Peterson. The person responsible for this? All signs point to Bridgewater. So, Bridgewater is very good at sustaining drives. This give the defense time to rest and wears down the opposing defense. Maybe that's why half of Asiata's career TDs came in 2014 (9 TDs). You don't want to give Bridgewater credit. Cool. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you blame the team and not Cousins for last year. It's the OL, amiright? Bridgewater in 2015 is still the most pressured QB in a season (I'm not sure how old the pressures statistics is). Yet we can't blame the team because the Vikings actually won and made the playoffs, so let's say that the team won in spite of Bridgewater. Cool. Oh, and by the way, Bridgewater was 22 at the start of the 2015 season (he was one of the youngest QBs to ever start an NFL game in 2014).

A question is not a strawman, by the way. A strawman is when someone argues something that hasn't been brought up. You are implying that rushing is why the Vikings won 11 games, yet other high rated rushing teams didn't. That is the question I am asking. Martin (Tampa) finished with 83 less yards and 39 less carries than Peterson in 2015. Matin had a substantially higher yards per carry (4.9 vs. 4.5). How would a team that had a RB with an arguably better year finish at 6-10 (and they had a 4000 yard passer)? The real reason you don't want to discuss this is because it ruins your argument.
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Dude »

silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:29 pm
Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:28 pm
silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:48 am

Buffalo finished 1st in rushing, why were they only 8-8? Tampa finished 5th in rushing and had over 4000 yards from Winston, why were they 6-10?

Fun fact, the lowest 3-and-out percentage in the Vikings offensive history was 2015 at 15.7%. Substantially better than 2012 (23.2%) when Peterson rushed for over 2000 yards. Maybe it wasn't all Peterson.
So do you agree with Cunningham that Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015? Because I don't. Even if you did, wouldn't you logically agree that there's a stronger argument to say that Cousins "led" the Redskins to the playoffs in his first year as a starter when you consider the Redskins finished 27th in total defense and 20th in rushing offense in 2015?

I'm not going to chase down your strawman argument about the Bills and Buccaneers.
Sure, Cousins led the Redskins to the playoffs in 2015 with a 9-7 record having only played 3 teams with a winning record (lost all of those games). And no, logically there's not a stronger argument for Cousins. Having one of the easiest schedules in a bad division is a much stronger argument.

Since 1978 (the start of the 16 game schedule), the Vikings have won 11 or more games 7 times. That's it. I understand back in the Vikings SB years there were more, so if you want to argue that, go ahead. So, with the combination of Bridgewater and Peterson, the Vikings did something that has only happened 6 other times in the last 40+ years. The only time Peterson won more games was with Favre as QB (12-4).
Two of the best 3-and-out percentages in Vikings history came in 2014 and 2015 (with 2015 being the best ever). Both better than with Farve, better than 2017, better than any year since the early 2000s (I want to say 2003). 2014 was, of course, without Peterson. The person responsible for this? All signs point to Bridgewater. So, Bridgewater is very good at sustaining drives. This give the defense time to rest and wears down the opposing defense. Maybe that's why half of Asiata's career TDs came in 2014 (9 TDs). You don't want to give Bridgewater credit. Cool. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you blame the team and not Cousins for last year. It's the OL, amiright? Bridgewater in 2015 is still the most pressured QB in a season (I'm not sure how old the pressures statistics is). Yet we can't blame the team because the Vikings actually won and made the playoffs, so let's say that the team won in spite of Bridgewater. Cool. Oh, and by the way, Bridgewater was 22 at the start of the 2015 season (he was one of the youngest QBs to ever start an NFL game in 2014).

A question is not a strawman, by the way. A strawman is when someone argues something that hasn't been brought up. You are implying that rushing is why the Vikings won 11 games, yet other high rated rushing teams didn't. That is the question I am asking. Martin (Tampa) finished with 83 less yards and 39 less carries than Peterson in 2015. Matin had a substantially higher yards per carry (4.9 vs. 4.5). How would a team that had a RB with an arguably better year finish at 6-10 (and they had a 4000 yard passer)? The real reason you don't want to discuss this is because it ruins your argument.
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

The Bills and Buccaneers have nothing to do with whether Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015.

You're misreading my post if you think I'm taking away credit from Teddy. He was pretty good in that season and I was optimistic about his chances in 2016. Nowhere did I say that they won in spite of him. Don't misrepresent my point.

I ask again, why would you consider Teddy "leading" the team to the playoffs in his first year as a starter, but not allow that for Cousins when the Redskins did the same exact thing that year while Cousins far out produced and had statistically less support than Teddy?
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by cunningham »

silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:29 pm
Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:28 pm
silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:48 am

Buffalo finished 1st in rushing, why were they only 8-8? Tampa finished 5th in rushing and had over 4000 yards from Winston, why were they 6-10?

Fun fact, the lowest 3-and-out percentage in the Vikings offensive history was 2015 at 15.7%. Substantially better than 2012 (23.2%) when Peterson rushed for over 2000 yards. Maybe it wasn't all Peterson.
So do you agree with Cunningham that Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015? Because I don't. Even if you did, wouldn't you logically agree that there's a stronger argument to say that Cousins "led" the Redskins to the playoffs in his first year as a starter when you consider the Redskins finished 27th in total defense and 20th in rushing offense in 2015?

I'm not going to chase down your strawman argument about the Bills and Buccaneers.
Sure, Cousins led the Redskins to the playoffs in 2015 with a 9-7 record having only played 3 teams with a winning record (lost all of those games). And no, logically there's not a stronger argument for Cousins. Having one of the easiest schedules in a bad division is a much stronger argument.

Since 1978 (the start of the 16 game schedule), the Vikings have won 11 or more games 7 times. That's it. I understand back in the Vikings SB years there were more, so if you want to argue that, go ahead. So, with the combination of Bridgewater and Peterson, the Vikings did something that has only happened 6 other times in the last 40+ years. The only time Peterson won more games was with Favre as QB (12-4).
Two of the best 3-and-out percentages in Vikings history came in 2014 and 2015 (with 2015 being the best ever). Both better than with Farve, better than 2017, better than any year since the early 2000s (I want to say 2003). 2014 was, of course, without Peterson. The person responsible for this? All signs point to Bridgewater. So, Bridgewater is very good at sustaining drives. This give the defense time to rest and wears down the opposing defense. Maybe that's why half of Asiata's career TDs came in 2014 (9 TDs). You don't want to give Bridgewater credit. Cool. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you blame the team and not Cousins for last year. It's the OL, amiright? Bridgewater in 2015 is still the most pressured QB in a season (I'm not sure how old the pressures statistics is). Yet we can't blame the team because the Vikings actually won and made the playoffs, so let's say that the team won in spite of Bridgewater. Cool. Oh, and by the way, Bridgewater was 22 at the start of the 2015 season (he was one of the youngest QBs to ever start an NFL game in 2014).

A question is not a strawman, by the way. A strawman is when someone argues something that hasn't been brought up. You are implying that rushing is why the Vikings won 11 games, yet other high rated rushing teams didn't. That is the question I am asking. Martin (Tampa) finished with 83 less yards and 39 less carries than Peterson in 2015. Matin had a substantially higher yards per carry (4.9 vs. 4.5). How would a team that had a RB with an arguably better year finish at 6-10 (and they had a 4000 yard passer)? The real reason you don't want to discuss this is because it ruins your argument.
:bow:

THANK YOU! You summed up what I saw on the field with statistics! Sustaining drives when you are a defensive based team is paramount. Bridgewater didn't have the deep ball and his throwing motion was odd, but he could sustain a drive. He kept the other offense off the field and kept drives going. AP would be stuffed in his feast and famine way, but Bridgewater led the team. This entire team believed in him and he was a leader. This is why the entire organization seemed to lose air when Teddy went down. He was special. Those stats prove it and I thank you a ton for looking that up. We tried to just plug in Bradford, but it took Keenum coming in to right the ship. Another guy who sustained drives.

I have trusted what I saw in Bridgewater. I really loved the kid. Many here hated that he didn't have a good deep ball, but he did lead this team to some wins.

It also is why watching Cousins go three and out so much is beyond frustrating. He has been like this his entire career. He held this team back and yet the offensive line takes all the blame. A line that probably was better than the previous year we went to the NFC Championship game.

I believe Zimmer is an amazing coach and it just frustrates me that his fate is tied to Cousins. Spielman should be on the hook because he has been in charge through Ponder, Bradford, Cousins, and even the Freeman experiment. He hit pay dirt with Teddy, but Teddy got hurt. Instead of taking another shot and drafting a guy he has went into panic mode ever since. Also, if Bridgewater was not behind this team's success then why have we not been as good with Bradford or Cousins in there?

It is dumb because how did Spielman think that just plugging in Bradford would make this team what it was with Bridgewater? Just like those who thought just plug in Cousins' stats with the team Keenum led and we would be better. The fact is that Bradford and Cousins just are not good enough. As I said in one of these threads, you have to have "it" to be a winner. Cousins doesn't have it. Maybe he pulls a Warner and all of sudden becomes a winning quarterback... We will see.
Joe Bag 'O Donuts
Posts: 1750
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:00 pm

Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:29 pm
Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:28 pm
silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:48 am

Buffalo finished 1st in rushing, why were they only 8-8? Tampa finished 5th in rushing and had over 4000 yards from Winston, why were they 6-10?

Fun fact, the lowest 3-and-out percentage in the Vikings offensive history was 2015 at 15.7%. Substantially better than 2012 (23.2%) when Peterson rushed for over 2000 yards. Maybe it wasn't all Peterson.
So do you agree with Cunningham that Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015? Because I don't. Even if you did, wouldn't you logically agree that there's a stronger argument to say that Cousins "led" the Redskins to the playoffs in his first year as a starter when you consider the Redskins finished 27th in total defense and 20th in rushing offense in 2015?

I'm not going to chase down your strawman argument about the Bills and Buccaneers.
Sure, Cousins led the Redskins to the playoffs in 2015 with a 9-7 record having only played 3 teams with a winning record (lost all of those games). And no, logically there's not a stronger argument for Cousins. Having one of the easiest schedules in a bad division is a much stronger argument.

Since 1978 (the start of the 16 game schedule), the Vikings have won 11 or more games 7 times. That's it. I understand back in the Vikings SB years there were more, so if you want to argue that, go ahead. So, with the combination of Bridgewater and Peterson, the Vikings did something that has only happened 6 other times in the last 40+ years. The only time Peterson won more games was with Favre as QB (12-4).
Two of the best 3-and-out percentages in Vikings history came in 2014 and 2015 (with 2015 being the best ever). Both better than with Farve, better than 2017, better than any year since the early 2000s (I want to say 2003). 2014 was, of course, without Peterson. The person responsible for this? All signs point to Bridgewater. So, Bridgewater is very good at sustaining drives. This give the defense time to rest and wears down the opposing defense. Maybe that's why half of Asiata's career TDs came in 2014 (9 TDs). You don't want to give Bridgewater credit. Cool. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you blame the team and not Cousins for last year. It's the OL, amiright? Bridgewater in 2015 is still the most pressured QB in a season (I'm not sure how old the pressures statistics is). Yet we can't blame the team because the Vikings actually won and made the playoffs, so let's say that the team won in spite of Bridgewater. Cool. Oh, and by the way, Bridgewater was 22 at the start of the 2015 season (he was one of the youngest QBs to ever start an NFL game in 2014).

A question is not a strawman, by the way. A strawman is when someone argues something that hasn't been brought up. You are implying that rushing is why the Vikings won 11 games, yet other high rated rushing teams didn't. That is the question I am asking. Martin (Tampa) finished with 83 less yards and 39 less carries than Peterson in 2015. Matin had a substantially higher yards per carry (4.9 vs. 4.5). How would a team that had a RB with an arguably better year finish at 6-10 (and they had a 4000 yard passer)? The real reason you don't want to discuss this is because it ruins your argument.
You've spent quite a bit of time accumulating evidence that sorta hints at your claim, but could you provide something that directly supports it? Not something that, since he was part of the team, signs point towards Teddy leading the team in the way you suggest.
Joe Bag 'O Donuts
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Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:39 pm
silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:29 pm
Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:28 pm

So do you agree with Cunningham that Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015? Because I don't. Even if you did, wouldn't you logically agree that there's a stronger argument to say that Cousins "led" the Redskins to the playoffs in his first year as a starter when you consider the Redskins finished 27th in total defense and 20th in rushing offense in 2015?

I'm not going to chase down your strawman argument about the Bills and Buccaneers.
Sure, Cousins led the Redskins to the playoffs in 2015 with a 9-7 record having only played 3 teams with a winning record (lost all of those games). And no, logically there's not a stronger argument for Cousins. Having one of the easiest schedules in a bad division is a much stronger argument.

Since 1978 (the start of the 16 game schedule), the Vikings have won 11 or more games 7 times. That's it. I understand back in the Vikings SB years there were more, so if you want to argue that, go ahead. So, with the combination of Bridgewater and Peterson, the Vikings did something that has only happened 6 other times in the last 40+ years. The only time Peterson won more games was with Favre as QB (12-4).
Two of the best 3-and-out percentages in Vikings history came in 2014 and 2015 (with 2015 being the best ever). Both better than with Farve, better than 2017, better than any year since the early 2000s (I want to say 2003). 2014 was, of course, without Peterson. The person responsible for this? All signs point to Bridgewater. So, Bridgewater is very good at sustaining drives. This give the defense time to rest and wears down the opposing defense. Maybe that's why half of Asiata's career TDs came in 2014 (9 TDs). You don't want to give Bridgewater credit. Cool. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you blame the team and not Cousins for last year. It's the OL, amiright? Bridgewater in 2015 is still the most pressured QB in a season (I'm not sure how old the pressures statistics is). Yet we can't blame the team because the Vikings actually won and made the playoffs, so let's say that the team won in spite of Bridgewater. Cool. Oh, and by the way, Bridgewater was 22 at the start of the 2015 season (he was one of the youngest QBs to ever start an NFL game in 2014).

A question is not a strawman, by the way. A strawman is when someone argues something that hasn't been brought up. You are implying that rushing is why the Vikings won 11 games, yet other high rated rushing teams didn't. That is the question I am asking. Martin (Tampa) finished with 83 less yards and 39 less carries than Peterson in 2015. Matin had a substantially higher yards per carry (4.9 vs. 4.5). How would a team that had a RB with an arguably better year finish at 6-10 (and they had a 4000 yard passer)? The real reason you don't want to discuss this is because it ruins your argument.
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

The Bills and Buccaneers have nothing to do with whether Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015.

You're misreading my post if you think I'm taking away credit from Teddy. He was pretty good in that season and I was optimistic about his chances in 2016. Nowhere did I say that they won in spite of him. Don't misrepresent my point.

I ask again, why would you consider Teddy "leading" the team to the playoffs in his first year as a starter, but not allow that for Cousins when the Redskins did the same exact thing that year while Cousins far out produced and had statistically less support than Teddy?
It's absolutely a strawman.
silverjoel
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:32 pm

Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by silverjoel »

Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:39 pm
silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:29 pm
Dude wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:28 pm

So do you agree with Cunningham that Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015? Because I don't. Even if you did, wouldn't you logically agree that there's a stronger argument to say that Cousins "led" the Redskins to the playoffs in his first year as a starter when you consider the Redskins finished 27th in total defense and 20th in rushing offense in 2015?

I'm not going to chase down your strawman argument about the Bills and Buccaneers.
Sure, Cousins led the Redskins to the playoffs in 2015 with a 9-7 record having only played 3 teams with a winning record (lost all of those games). And no, logically there's not a stronger argument for Cousins. Having one of the easiest schedules in a bad division is a much stronger argument.

Since 1978 (the start of the 16 game schedule), the Vikings have won 11 or more games 7 times. That's it. I understand back in the Vikings SB years there were more, so if you want to argue that, go ahead. So, with the combination of Bridgewater and Peterson, the Vikings did something that has only happened 6 other times in the last 40+ years. The only time Peterson won more games was with Favre as QB (12-4).
Two of the best 3-and-out percentages in Vikings history came in 2014 and 2015 (with 2015 being the best ever). Both better than with Farve, better than 2017, better than any year since the early 2000s (I want to say 2003). 2014 was, of course, without Peterson. The person responsible for this? All signs point to Bridgewater. So, Bridgewater is very good at sustaining drives. This give the defense time to rest and wears down the opposing defense. Maybe that's why half of Asiata's career TDs came in 2014 (9 TDs). You don't want to give Bridgewater credit. Cool. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you blame the team and not Cousins for last year. It's the OL, amiright? Bridgewater in 2015 is still the most pressured QB in a season (I'm not sure how old the pressures statistics is). Yet we can't blame the team because the Vikings actually won and made the playoffs, so let's say that the team won in spite of Bridgewater. Cool. Oh, and by the way, Bridgewater was 22 at the start of the 2015 season (he was one of the youngest QBs to ever start an NFL game in 2014).

A question is not a strawman, by the way. A strawman is when someone argues something that hasn't been brought up. You are implying that rushing is why the Vikings won 11 games, yet other high rated rushing teams didn't. That is the question I am asking. Martin (Tampa) finished with 83 less yards and 39 less carries than Peterson in 2015. Matin had a substantially higher yards per carry (4.9 vs. 4.5). How would a team that had a RB with an arguably better year finish at 6-10 (and they had a 4000 yard passer)? The real reason you don't want to discuss this is because it ruins your argument.
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

The Bills and Buccaneers have nothing to do with whether Bridgewater "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015.

You're misreading my post if you think I'm taking away credit from Teddy. He was pretty good in that season and I was optimistic about his chances in 2016. Nowhere did I say that they won in spite of him. Don't misrepresent my point.

I ask again, why would you consider Teddy "leading" the team to the playoffs in his first year as a starter, but not allow that for Cousins when the Redskins did the same exact thing that year while Cousins far out produced and had statistically less support than Teddy?
Let's try this again. You stated Bridgewater didn't lead the Vikings to the playoffs. You brought up the rushing game and specifically Peterson as to why the Vikings made the playoffs. So, to make it general, rushing is the reason the Vikings made the playoffs. I didn't argue that, thus no strawman. What I stated was if rushing is the reason the Vikings were 11-5, why didn't other teams with as good or better rushing attacks have the same, or at least close to, record as the Vikings? Again, a question is not an argument. I'm asking you to explain how a team with similar rushing stats didn't make the playoffs. Buffalo's defense was very similar to the Vikings and Buffalo's passing game was similar to the Vikings. Logically, if rushing (and not anything to do with the passing game) is the reason for the Vikings being 11-5 (the rushing game led the Vikings to 11-5 and not the QB), wouldn't an even better rushing team (Buffalo) with similar defensive and passing numbers also be at least a winning team? See, again, that's not any type of argument or refuting your claim. Simply asking a question as the Vikings aren't the only team in the NFL and thus the only way to really compare aspects of NFL teams is by comparing to other NFL teams.

Now, of course, you aren't going to be able to point to one thing. Thus, logically, rushing can't be the only reason the Vikings finished 11-5. There had to be other factors. The offense was actually pretty good in 2015, and better than Buffalo in nearly every category. The only real knock against the offense was that they settled for too many FGs.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... atsoff2015

Yet Buffalo finished 1st in rushing. Again, rushing can't be the reason the Vikings finished 11-5, as the best rushing team (Buffalo) finished 8-8 and had slightly better passing stats, yet a worst overall offense.

The other question that comes up is why does Cousins need all of those stats to finish at 9-7 or worse every year? Many QBs with less stats (by stats I'm assuming you are only taking about passing yards and passing TDs) have winning records.

Why, in Zimmer's time as Vikings head coach, did 2 similar QBs (Bradford and Cousins) have such poor rushing games when every other year they were good?

2014 - 14th
2015 - 4th
2016 - 32nd
2017 - 7th
2018 - 30th

Maybe the QB impacts the rushing game.
Dude
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:15 am

Re: Cousins second best Red Zone QB in 2018 Only behind Brees

Post by Dude »

silverjoel wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:27 pm
Maybe the QB impacts the rushing game.
And maybe the rushing game impacts the quarterback.

You're saying a lot of words and continuing to tap dance around the question: Do you believe that Teddy "led" the Vikings to the playoffs in 2015? I don't, and I don't think you believe that either so for some reason I don't understand why you're spending so much energy defending it.

The 2015 Vikings were a more balanced team (which Teddy absolutely contributed to) than the 2018 team, but Teddy's impact on that team is being overstated to try to "throw shade" towards Cousins especially when Cousins -ironically enough- was more productive on the '15 playoff team despite having less support around him.

The only thing Bridgewater did that Cousins didn't was win a pretend rookie of the year award (ODB was the real ROY that year).
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