Vikings tried a Griffen for Zeitler swap...

[Hector]

https://thevikingage.com/2019/04/10/rep ... en-browns/

According to the Star Tribune’s Andrew Krammer on Wednesday, the Vikings wanted to acquire Browns offensive guard Kevin Zeitler and Minnesota was using Griffen as part of the trade package they were offering.
Cleveland eventually decided to send Zeitler packing, but not to the Vikings. Instead, the Browns traded the offensive guard and a 2019 fifth-round draft pick to the New York Giants in exchange for pass rusher Olivier Vernon and a 2019 fourth-round selection.
Vernon is three years younger than Griffen and this likely played a big part in Cleveland not taking Minnesota up on whatever they were offering for Zeitler.

[HeHateMe]

https://thevikingage.com/2019/04/10/rep ... en-browns/

According to the Star Tribune’s Andrew Krammer on Wednesday, the Vikings wanted to acquire Browns offensive guard Kevin Zeitler and Minnesota was using Griffen as part of the trade package they were offering.
Cleveland eventually decided to send Zeitler packing, but not to the Vikings. Instead, the Browns traded the offensive guard and a 2019 fifth-round draft pick to the New York Giants in exchange for pass rusher Olivier Vernon and a 2019 fourth-round selection.
Vernon is three years younger than Griffen and this likely played a big part in Cleveland not taking Minnesota up on whatever they were offering for Zeitler.

HGTM will rejoice that they tried.

[Ash Ketchum]

Damn, that would have been a nice swap. I see why the Browns chose Vernon over Griff though.

[Tmoney]

I still think as we get closer to draft time guys will still get moved.

The way they ate gobbling up AAf guys it makes me wonder if they are using them in place of late picks, and are going to use the later picks to try and move up a bit more.

More picks in the top 3 or 4 and less than usual in 5,6, and 7

[SKOLMN]

Personally I’m kind of glad this fell through.

1. I still believe Griffen will be a force in this league. He’s been absolutely elite, even in the games played before the pre-bills game situation. For him to go from that to washed up/in-effective that quickly? Doubtful
2. While it would’ve been nice having zeitler this probably would’ve led the Vikings to not signing Kline, meaning we’d still have a hole at left guard.
3. In addition to #2, this would’ve delt a blow to our rotation at d-end. Bowers/ifadi/aruna are not yet ready for a major role on defense, another year of development would go a long ways towards solidifying our dline depth

[Ash Ketchum]

IF Griffen is back 100% and he performs at even 80% of what he was in 2017, he will be far more impactful in 2019 than Zeitler would have been.

I would have done the trade I think, but Zeitler is a 10-12 million per year guy, so he’s not cheap.

[hategreenticemase]

https://thevikingage.com/2019/04/10/rep ... en-browns/

According to the Star Tribune’s Andrew Krammer on Wednesday, the Vikings wanted to acquire Browns offensive guard Kevin Zeitler and Minnesota was using Griffen as part of the trade package they were offering.
Cleveland eventually decided to send Zeitler packing, but not to the Vikings. Instead, the Browns traded the offensive guard and a 2019 fifth-round draft pick to the New York Giants in exchange for pass rusher Olivier Vernon and a 2019 fourth-round selection.
Vernon is three years younger than Griffen and this likely played a big part in Cleveland not taking Minnesota up on whatever they were offering for Zeitler.

HGTM will rejoice that they tried.

Not really. As I speculated at the time, it's fucked up if they recognized the HR opportunity but allowed themselves to be outbid. I get them wanting Vernon over Griffen, but if we threw in a 4th and 5th? Next year 3rd? I have a hard time believing we couldn't get it done.

To me it was the one can't miss move they could make as it would have meant acquiring an elite G and paying his salary within the trade, and cost us a fair price to get him. Biggest impact would then have been much much more flexibility in draft.

But hey, we got Kline so what am I worried about???

[Small Hands]

IF Griffen is back 100% and he performs at even 80% of what he was in 2017, he will be far more impactful in 2019 than Zeitler would have been.

I would have done the trade I think, but Zeitler is a 10-12 million per year guy, so he’s not cheap.

80% of 13 sacks is 10.4 sacks. Yes, I'd take 10.5 sacks from Griffin in a heartbeat. I don't see that happening. 4-7 sacks this year is my guess. He lost a step after his foot injury in London. Plus, there is a reason why he took a pay cut. He's old.

Zeitler would have been a huge impact on this OLine. It also would have given the Vikings some flexibility in the draft. Now they almost have to draft OLine in one of the first 2 rounds.

[witljon]

The vast majority of trades never happen, they're just talked.
I wonder how many teams the Vikings talked to about Griffen.

[hategreenticemase]

IF Griffen is back 100% and he performs at even 80% of what he was in 2017, he will be far more impactful in 2019 than Zeitler would have been.

I would have done the trade I think, but Zeitler is a 10-12 million per year guy, so he’s not cheap.

Zeitler would have been a huge impact on this OLine. It also would have given the Vikings some flexibility in the draft. Now they almost have to draft OLine in one of the first 2 rounds.

This. A case can be made they must take 2 in first 3 rounds. But bank on this - RS will now (because of heat he has taken) now take a lineman at 18 no matter what, regardless of of the guy warrants being taken at 18 or worse yet, someone more elite is avail. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is my bet.

Trading EG would have been huge. I firmly subscribe to BB theory of must get rid of guys a year too early more than ever a year too late. Fail #1. Secondly, this was one way to pay for an elite G without costing us anything. Fail #2. Third, it leverages a team strength - we develop corners and DL well. So I believe in turning those assets into other needed assets.

Wish we could have gotten it done.

[Beef Supreme]

I wouldn’t have hated this move and there’s arguments to be made on both sides. The variables come down to how much Griffen has left and what kind of draft pick sweeteners it would have taken to outbid the Giants. We can’t know those two things right now, so it’s hard to say if not going all out for this move would have been the right thing or not.

I will say that DE is a far more premium and important position than guard. However, the counter that we’re good at locating and developing DEs and not so good at that with OL is valid.


I like the off-season and also go on the emotional roller-coaster from time to time, but you’ve really got to wait until the whole thing plays out before you go into celebration or meltdown mode.

It’s fun in the meantime, though.

[Hector]

I think if Everson hadn't suffered through those issues last year it would have been a hard trade for the Browns to pass up. Everson might be older but he did have a long break in period so he probably still has some good tread left on the tires.

I just hope Zim rotates, gives EG some rest and that there is a need to have a well rested Griffen at playoff time.

[Deep Purple]

Besides Griff, there has been trade talks with other teams on Waynes, Rhodes and Rudy. One of the 4 is gone after draft weekend.

[HeHateMe]

https://thevikingage.com/2019/04/10/rep ... en-browns/

According to the Star Tribune’s Andrew Krammer on Wednesday, the Vikings wanted to acquire Browns offensive guard Kevin Zeitler and Minnesota was using Griffen as part of the trade package they were offering.
Cleveland eventually decided to send Zeitler packing, but not to the Vikings. Instead, the Browns traded the offensive guard and a 2019 fifth-round draft pick to the New York Giants in exchange for pass rusher Olivier Vernon and a 2019 fourth-round selection.
Vernon is three years younger than Griffen and this likely played a big part in Cleveland not taking Minnesota up on whatever they were offering for Zeitler.

HGTM will rejoice that they tried.

Not really. As I speculated at the time, it's fucked up if they recognized the HR opportunity but allowed themselves to be outbid. I get them wanting Vernon over Griffen, but if we threw in a 4th and 5th? Next year 3rd? I have a hard time believing we couldn't get it done.

To me it was the one can't miss move they could make as it would have meant acquiring an elite G and paying his salary within the trade, and cost us a fair price to get him. Biggest impact would then have been much much more flexibility in draft.

But hey, we got Kline so what am I worried about???

My guess is they simply did not want Griffen. Now, you can say the Vikings should have offered up picks in general for the player and then were forced to cut others to make room... that's an argument for sure. The picks would have been a lot higher of course.

[Hector]

Besides Griff, there has been trade talks with other teams on Waynes, Rhodes and Rudy. One of the 4 is gone after draft weekend.

I'll bite...for whom?

[Deep Purple]

Besides Griff, there has been trade talks with other teams on Waynes, Rhodes and Rudy. One of the 4 is gone after draft weekend.

I'll bite...for whom?

I think it will be for a draft pick.

[Hector]

Besides Griff, there has been trade talks with other teams on Waynes, Rhodes and Rudy. One of the 4 is gone after draft weekend.

I'll bite...for whom?

I think it will be for a draft pick.

I don't think we can risk Wayne's...I think now is the right time to deal Rhodes as much as I wouldn't want to. Rudy and Griff would be fine.

[hategreenticemase]

HGTM will rejoice that they tried.

Not really. As I speculated at the time, it's fucked up if they recognized the HR opportunity but allowed themselves to be outbid. I get them wanting Vernon over Griffen, but if we threw in a 4th and 5th? Next year 3rd? I have a hard time believing we couldn't get it done.

To me it was the one can't miss move they could make as it would have meant acquiring an elite G and paying his salary within the trade, and cost us a fair price to get him. Biggest impact would then have been much much more flexibility in draft.

But hey, we got Kline so what am I worried about???

My guess is they simply did not want Griffen. Now, you can say the Vikings should have offered up picks in general for the player and then were forced to cut others to make room... that's an argument for sure. The picks would have been a lot higher of course.

Obviously, the nebulous of us not knowing the facts makes this all speculation. The one "Fact" I can go on is this - the Vikings overvalue Griffen compared to me (and i remember right, you also). This is demonstrated by I/we were willing to part ways with him to get cap relief and hopefully get something for him. I was ok with him coming back at a great contract, but I dont feel that happened. We had ALL the leverage with him so I dont get the contract.

This tells me they probably didnt try all that hard to get that deal with Zeitler done. Again, maybe they didnt want Griffen - I dont know, but I do know we overvalue Griffen and that may have played a large part in things. Either way, I am disappointed we couldnt get it done - was a Home Fucking Run move.

Imagine right now if made that trade and had Zeitler penciled in. Changes the approach to the draft just a tad doesnt it?

[Tuck ya in]

I'm disappointed in the lack of trades period, from this regime. Take a look at the Superbowl teams this last decade. There's a lot of significant trades they made that helped them along the way. You have to be creative and innovative in this league, and utilize all methods to acquire players.

[Oriole81]

With the way the draft in general is looking and with certain players really killing it during their process, I’m really struggling to see a scenario where there is such a wide descrepancy between the “perceived” best player available and the best offensive lineman available, that should warrant not taking the o-line player.

Early in the process the hope was Ed Oliver or TJ Hockenson, but I don’t think those are happening at this point. So who else could be left that warrant having to take?

Bush as a 3rd LB isn’t very good value.
Fant is too incomplete as of now.
Metcalf as a 3rd WR but with us still having the same bad O-line isn’t going to be able to maximize value.

So for guys advocating so much that this move would have opened the board so much, can you please give me specifics of who that is so great at 18 that it would be a travesty to pass up?

Thanks.

[mlhouse]

With the way the draft in general is looking and with certain players really killing it during their process, I’m really struggling to see a scenario where there is such a wide descrepancy between the “perceived” best player available and the best offensive lineman available, that should warrant not taking the o-line player.

There is seldom situations in the NFL draft were that occurs and most of time when it does, there is another team that has a need at the perceived best player available and is willing to trade value to move up to take them. That is one of the great things about the NFL draft vs. others is that you can maximize value at almost every given slot.

If the Vikings actually made this offer, I doubt the Browns had much interest in it. To me I don't give the rumor much credibility.

Even if the VIkings did the trade, they still need starters on the offensive line and talent depth across the whole front. A first round offensive lineman is an obvious need.

[Beef Supreme]

With the way the draft in general is looking and with certain players really killing it during their process, I’m really struggling to see a scenario where there is such a wide descrepancy between the “perceived” best player available and the best offensive lineman available, that should warrant not taking the o-line player.

There is seldom situations in the NFL draft were that occurs and most of time when it does, there is another team that has a need at the perceived best player available and is willing to trade value to move up to take them. That is one of the great things about the NFL draft vs. others is that you can maximize value at almost every given slot.

If the Vikings actually made this offer, I doubt the Browns had much interest in it. To me I don't give the rumor much credibility.

Even if the VIkings did the trade, they still need starters on the offensive line and talent depth across the whole front. A first round offensive lineman is an obvious need.

And we'd be swapping the OL need for a new DE need. I suppose you can argue that this draft is deeper at DE and we're better at developing DEs that OL, but the counter to that is the draft pick loss in sweetening the trade, rest assured we would have had to sweeten the deal considerably more than the Giants did.

If they wanted too much, it was probably wise to just sit tight.

[Oriole81]

With the way the draft in general is looking and with certain players really killing it during their process, I’m really struggling to see a scenario where there is such a wide descrepancy between the “perceived” best player available and the best offensive lineman available, that should warrant not taking the o-line player.

There is seldom situations in the NFL draft were that occurs and most of time when it does, there is another team that has a need at the perceived best player available and is willing to trade value to move up to take them. That is one of the great things about the NFL draft vs. others is that you can maximize value at almost every given slot.

If the Vikings actually made this offer, I doubt the Browns had much interest in it. To me I don't give the rumor much credibility.

Even if the VIkings did the trade, they still need starters on the offensive line and talent depth across the whole front. A first round offensive lineman is an obvious need.

I don’t want to trade down to the lesser tier Olinemen anyway, so I’m not hugely interested in a trade down anyway.
If Pitt wants to trade up to 20 to take Bush i could be tempted since I don’t think Ten goes oline at 19, but Pitt probably won’t give more than mid rd pick to move up 2 spots, and you run the risk of TN moving out for a team that will snipe our o-lineman.

[mlhouse]

With the way the draft in general is looking and with certain players really killing it during their process, I’m really struggling to see a scenario where there is such a wide descrepancy between the “perceived” best player available and the best offensive lineman available, that should warrant not taking the o-line player.

There is seldom situations in the NFL draft were that occurs and most of time when it does, there is another team that has a need at the perceived best player available and is willing to trade value to move up to take them. That is one of the great things about the NFL draft vs. others is that you can maximize value at almost every given slot.

If the Vikings actually made this offer, I doubt the Browns had much interest in it. To me I don't give the rumor much credibility.

Even if the VIkings did the trade, they still need starters on the offensive line and talent depth across the whole front. A first round offensive lineman is an obvious need.

I don’t want to trade down to the lesser tier Olinemen anyway, so I’m not hugely interested in a trade down anyway.
If Pitt wants to trade up to 20 to take Bush i could be tempted since I don’t think Ten goes oline at 19, but Pitt probably won’t give more than mid rd pick to move up 2 spots, and you run the risk of TN moving out for a team that will snipe our o-lineman.

There could be a situation were there are two of the linemen at 18 that you might take, so swapping down to 20 has no cost.

If something like that happened, you can aways do a subsequent deal moving further down and picking up additional assets.

[Oriole81]

There is seldom situations in the NFL draft were that occurs and most of time when it does, there is another team that has a need at the perceived best player available and is willing to trade value to move up to take them. That is one of the great things about the NFL draft vs. others is that you can maximize value at almost every given slot.

If the Vikings actually made this offer, I doubt the Browns had much interest in it. To me I don't give the rumor much credibility.

Even if the VIkings did the trade, they still need starters on the offensive line and talent depth across the whole front. A first round offensive lineman is an obvious need.

I don’t want to trade down to the lesser tier Olinemen anyway, so I’m not hugely interested in a trade down anyway.
If Pitt wants to trade up to 20 to take Bush i could be tempted since I don’t think Ten goes oline at 19, but Pitt probably won’t give more than mid rd pick to move up 2 spots, and you run the risk of TN moving out for a team that will snipe our o-lineman.

There could be a situation were there are two of the linemen at 18 that you might take, so swapping down to 20 has no cost.

If something like that happened, you can aways do a subsequent deal moving further down and picking up additional assets.

Which two would we be talking?

[mlhouse]

I don’t want to trade down to the lesser tier Olinemen anyway, so I’m not hugely interested in a trade down anyway.
If Pitt wants to trade up to 20 to take Bush i could be tempted since I don’t think Ten goes oline at 19, but Pitt probably won’t give more than mid rd pick to move up 2 spots, and you run the risk of TN moving out for a team that will snipe our o-lineman.

There could be a situation were there are two of the linemen at 18 that you might take, so swapping down to 20 has no cost.

If something like that happened, you can aways do a subsequent deal moving further down and picking up additional assets.

Which two would we be talking?

Two available from the set {Taylor, Ford, Williams, Dillard}. If you are sitting at#18 and two of those guys are available, and Pittsburgh offers a 5th round pick to move up from #20 do you say no?

[Keith_Morrison]

This is an exercise in futility, boys.

Pure speculation.

Nobody knows how the draft will fall or what trades will be made leading up to and during the draft.

[RubeTube]

This is an exercise in futility, boys.

Pure speculation.

Nobody knows how the draft will fall or what trades will be made leading up to and during the draft.

I can tell you something. There won't be any trade.


From the guy a few pages up.... Wherr have you heard they are shopping Rhodes? Please link because that is absolutely false.

[Keith_Morrison]

This is an exercise in futility, boys.

Pure speculation.

Nobody knows how the draft will fall or what trades will be made leading up to and during the draft.

I can tell you something. There won't be any trade.


From the guy a few pages up.... Wherr have you heard they are shopping Rhodes? Please link because that is absolutely false.

You’re either on to something or on something, Tube!

[Tuck ya in]

I just think they needed to acquire a legit Veteran guard before the draft. They needed to find a way. I know there's still some things that can happen, but 2 rookies at guard (no matter their talent) and mixing in Klein on a team built for February...ugh. I just can't get over it, it blows my mind. They should of thrown everything and the kitchen sink at this problem, instead they lobbed a spatula and egg beater.