Kirk Cousins' first Vikings season busted when it mattered most (StTrb)

[cunningham]

Finally something to discuss with Hate/Herk/Simp that has some teeth into what those who are not either related to or an agent of have been saying (full article has video clips of plays mentioned http://www.startribune.com/2018-grades- ... 504369072/):

Kirk Cousins might as well have had a cavalcade surrounding him when he arrived last spring proclaimed as the Vikings’ missing piece to reach an elusive Super Bowl. Cousins, who started consecutive games 50-65 this season, decried the notion every step of the way.

Already an established quarterback with an early playoff exit, Cousins entered the 2018 season saying everybody needed to play well and he, in order to be mentioned among greats, needed to overcome whatever deficiencies weighed them down. With Cousins, the Vikings collectively failed in his first season while ranking 19th in scoring and 26th in both third downs and the red zone.

Grades are based on a 1-to-5 scale, with ‘5’ marking excellence, ‘4’ for above-average, ‘3’ for average, ‘2’ for below-average and ‘1’ for failure to perform. Players that did not accrue a season (weren’t on the active roster for at least six weeks) or played in three games or fewer are not graded. Below are individual grades, based on game and practice observations, weekly film reviews and interviews with coaches, for three quarterbacks who finished the season on the Vikings’ active roster, injured reserve or practice squad. Unofficial NFL stats, such as QB pressures, missed tackles and targeted passes, are compiled by ProFootballFocus.com.

Kirk Cousins (3.0) — One of six handpicked team captains. Signed a three-year, $84 million contract, the NFL’s first fully guaranteed of its magnitude, and was immediately tasked with orchestrating an evolving offense behind a patchwork offensive line. Didn’t miss a down. Played 1,051 snaps [100%]. Led the Vikings to chances at six wins in the first seven games, but fell short at Green Bay and Los Angeles due to late turnovers as well as kicking and defensive problems. Threw for career highs in completion percentage (70.1) and touchdowns (30). Played well in early road trips to Green Bay, L.A. and Philadelphia, overcoming frequent pressure with big-time throws. Backed up to his own five-yard line, Cousins had Fletcher Cox in his face when he threw a perfect 35-yard touch pass to Adam Thielen, who ran the rest of the 68-yard gain.

Kirk Cousins might as well have had a cavalcade surrounding him when he arrived last spring proclaimed as the Vikings’ missing piece to reach an elusive Super Bowl. Cousins, who started consecutive games 50-65 this season, decried the notion every step of the way.

Already an established quarterback with an early playoff exit, Cousins entered the 2018 season saying everybody needed to play well and he, in order to be mentioned among greats, needed to overcome whatever deficiencies weighed them down. With Cousins, the Vikings collectively failed in his first season while ranking 19th in scoring and 26th in both third downs and the red zone.

Grades are based on a 1-to-5 scale, with ‘5’ marking excellence, ‘4’ for above-average, ‘3’ for average, ‘2’ for below-average and ‘1’ for failure to perform. Players that did not accrue a season (weren’t on the active roster for at least six weeks) or played in three games or fewer are not graded. Below are individual grades, based on game and practice observations, weekly film reviews and interviews with coaches, for three quarterbacks who finished the season on the Vikings’ active roster, injured reserve or practice squad. Unofficial NFL stats, such as QB pressures, missed tackles and targeted passes, are compiled by ProFootballFocus.com.

Kirk Cousins (3.0) — One of six handpicked team captains. Signed a three-year, $84 million contract, the NFL’s first fully guaranteed of its magnitude, and was immediately tasked with orchestrating an evolving offense behind a patchwork offensive line. Didn’t miss a down. Played 1,051 snaps [100%]. Led the Vikings to chances at six wins in the first seven games, but fell short at Green Bay and Los Angeles due to late turnovers as well as kicking and defensive problems. Threw for career highs in completion percentage (70.1) and touchdowns (30). Played well in early road trips to Green Bay, L.A. and Philadelphia, overcoming frequent pressure with big-time throws. Backed up to his own five-yard line, Cousins had Fletcher Cox in his face when he threw a perfect 35-yard touch pass to Adam Thielen, who ran the rest of the 68-yard gain.

Cousins was one of the NFL’s best deep passers despite ranking 13th in long balls thrown and 25th in how often they were attempted (10.6%). He gives the Vikings a quarterback capable of throwing a 65-yard bomb like this touchdown to Stefon Diggs. Coaches aim to improve some inconsistent mechanics, but when he’s right he can flash a strong arm with downfield precision.

Only three quarterbacks, Patrick Mahomes, Ben Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson, had more deep touchdown passes than Cousins’ 13.

But Cousins’ play under pressure, a reason why the Vikings sat at 5-3-1 entering the Week 10 bye, fell off upon returning from the bye to play in Chicago. He was the NFL’s third-rated passer under pressure (91.5 rating) in Weeks 1-9. His rating under pressured dropped to 22nd (69.5) in Weeks 11-17, when the Vikings had four games against three top scoring defenses in Chicago, New England and Seattle and Mike Zimmer fired coordinator John DeFilippo.

Shortening the play calls was one change under Kevin Stefanski, which is not a small adjustment considering their spotty hurry-up offense.

Slow starts also anchored the offense after the bye. Five of the last seven games began with a three-and-out series.

Turnovers were Cousins’ undoing. Only two quarterbacks in Josh Rosen (19 turnovers) and Ben Roethlisberger (18) had more turnovers than Cousins’ 17. He lost a career-high and NFL-leading seven fumbles, including two to start the Week 3 loss to Buffalo. Some interceptions were a product of miscommunication, like Stefon Diggs’ stopped route against New Orleans and Kyle Rudolph watching the ball sail overhead in Chicago. Some were simply boneheaded plays, like Eddie Jackson’s pick six in Chicago when Diggs was open in the flat but Cousins threw to a covered Laquon Treadwell.

The timing compounded the turnovers. Cousins led the NFL with eight turnovers in the fourth quarter and overtime, tied with Denver’s Case Keenum and Detroit’s Matthew Stafford, according to Pro Football Reference. Three of five defensive touchdowns attributed to Cousins came in the second half of key losses against the Saints, Bears and Seahawks.

Cousins was candid about his need to better improvise when plays break down, which they too often did in 2018. Any extra emphasis didn’t produce much in results as Cousins scrambled for few first downs this season. Held to a career-low 132 passing yards in the season finale loss against the Bears, which began with four consecutive three-and-outs.

An inability to overcome deficits (0-7-1 when tied or trailing at halftime) was a critical problem. Cousins was the NFL’s only quarterback to start every game this season and not have at least one game-winning drive. His closest attempt, in Green Bay, was emblematic of the season as one cylinder fired properly in Cousins, but another, rookie kicker Daniel Carlson, did not.

Trevor Siemian (N/A) — Acquired from Denver last spring for a fifth-round pick. Held onto the backup job throughout an uneven summer and was active for all 16 games. Led scoring drives on five of 20 possessions in the preseason, playing poorly enough in the third-game dress rehearsal he started the exhibition finale. Did not play after 24 starts the previous two seasons. Earned $1.9 million on the final year of his rookie contract. Pending free agent. Turned 27 years old last month.

Kyle Sloter (N/A) — In his second NFL preseason, Sloter led two final-minute thrillers ending in a game-losing fumble against the Jaguars and a game-winning touchdown over the Seahawks. It was emblematic of an up-and-down training camp that kept him in the No. 3 spot this season. Inactive all 16 games. Completed 41-of-56 passes [73.2%] for 366 yards and four touchdowns in the preseason. Added six carries for 33 yards and a rushing touchdown. Turns 25 next month. May compete for the backup job next summer depending on the offseason move.

26th in both third downs and the red zone. That is a problem, but with the stable of offensive coaches brought in there will be no excuses... NONE!

[GtotheO]

Wow. This says a lot. Not just about Kirk (who I'm not totally out on, yet, but about the entire team!)


"An inability to overcome deficits (0-7-1 when tied or trailing at halftime) was a critical problem. Cousins was the NFL’s only quarterback to start every game this season and not have at least one game-winning drive."

[bombers3shooter]

Wow. This says a lot. Not just about Kirk (who I'm not totally out on, yet, but about the entire team!)


"An inability to overcome deficits (0-7-1 when tied or trailing at halftime) was a critical problem. Cousins was the NFL’s only quarterback to start every game this season and not have at least one game-winning drive."

It was a combination of subpar quarterback play and a head coach that lacked the ability to make proper adjustments. I felt like Zimmer got outcoached too many times. Kirk and Zim are good at holding leads for the most part, but coming from behind is not something either has shown to be even a shade of a strength.

[Ash Ketchum]

Objectively, it was obviously a disappointing season for Cousins and the Vikings.

But what is the point of these discussions? Are you advocating that they give up and cut Cousins? Are you needing validation for being weary of Cousins early on when he was signed?

He needs to be better in 2019.

Some things that could help:

- Improved protection up front
- Some semblance of a running game
- A reliable third option in the passing game
- Better play calling
- More support from the defense

If some or most or all of these things are added this offseason, I still want to give Kirk a chance in this offense. I think we saw enough flashes, especially early on in the season, to believe that with more help, he can be good enough for this team to win games.

Is he Brady or Rodgers out there who can win games by himself? No. And we didn’t assume he was when he came here.

I’m concerned about the lack of clutch factor to his game in 2018, but he’s the guy going into 2019 like it or not. Let’s beef up the OL, add a weapon or two and see what happens.

[Tmoney]

It's simple really.

He got paid like a guy that can mask deficiencies. He didn't, and in some cases made them worse. For example taking a sack, or even fumbling while taking said sack.

Not saying he cant become that guy, but at his age he may be what he is.

The team has to improve the line, that's obvious.

With those improvements does he make the jump to a top 8 QB. Maybe.

Will he starts to win games when the lights are brightest.

He better

[weimy froob]

right now it looks so different for this franchise than it did a year ago before the phily game. i don't know if there's the brainpower around to do what needs to be done to take that big step to be a consistently quality squad that realistically competes for a SB for a 3-5 year period. it was a SB or bust season-and the dice came up snake eyes. good luck going forward.

[Deep Purple]

Pretty easy to see what happened this season. Once teams figured out how to stop the Vikings offense (Patriots) Other teams just followed suit and the Vikings coaches had no other game plan. Double cover Diggs/Theilen and go through our poor OL pretty much killed the season.

[Ash Ketchum]

Pretty easy to see what happened this season. Once teams figured out how to stop the Vikings offense (Patriots) Other teams just followed suit and the Vikings coaches had no other game plan. Double cover Diggs/Theilen and go through our poor OL pretty much killed the season.

This.

And with opposing defenses dedicating 4 players to stop 2 of our players, it killed us to not be able to run the ball effectively.

Additionally, we have absolutely nothing in the way of a third option who can really make defenses pay for singling them. An underrated need for this team is a reliable, consistent third WR or TE who can punish defenses for not paying attention.

[Hector]

It's simple really.

He got paid like a guy that can mask deficiencies. He didn't, and in some cases made them worse. For example taking a sack, or even fumbling while taking said sack.

Not saying he cant become that guy, but at his age he may be what he is.

The team has to improve the line, that's obvious.

With those improvements does he make the jump to a top 8 QB. Maybe.

Will he starts to win games when the lights are brightest.

He better

31 going into the season this year, I doubt he's going to have some QBing epiphany but maybe with a running game and a little more time to throw we could get back to the playoffs.

[B-Town]

Pretty easy to see what happened this season. Once teams figured out how to stop the Vikings offense (Patriots) Other teams just followed suit and the Vikings coaches had no other game plan. Double cover Diggs/Theilen and go through our poor OL pretty much killed the season.

This.

And with opposing defenses dedicating 4 players to stop 2 of our players, it killed us to not be able to run the ball effectively.

Additionally, we have absolutely nothing in the way of a third option who can really make defenses pay for singling them. An underrated need for this team is a reliable, consistent third WR or TE who can punish defenses for not paying attention.

I think we might be a little greedy in thinking that there's a need for a 3rd good WR. Remember how many years we had none? Now, we 2 all pro level WRs, a RB who can catch, and a decent TE. That should be enough to sustain a good passing game. The missing cog, IMO, isn't another WR. It's the OL. Like you said, we have to be able to punish teams on the ground for dedicating too much attention to Diggs and Thielen.

[twgerber]

Cousins did not get paid because he is a top 5 QB or one that clearly makes all those around him better.

He got paid because he was far and away the top FA QB on the market and FA always overpays for those top few guys.

He is better than anything the Vikings have had in a long time. He has deficiencies for sure but that's the coaches job to game plan around those.

They didn't.

End of story. End of Season.

[Chuck North]

You can't say the viklings haven't tried. When you consider the new stadium, new practice facility, the maxed out payroll. The excitement over Zims hire.

Is there another team that's put this much money into lossing?

The hope train was sure buzzing for a while there.

Oh well.

[cunningham]

Objectively, it was obviously a disappointing season for Cousins and the Vikings.

But what is the point of these discussions? Are you advocating that they give up and cut Cousins? Are you needing validation for being weary of Cousins early on when he was signed?

He needs to be better in 2019.

Some things that could help:

- Improved protection up front
- Some semblance of a running game
- A reliable third option in the passing game
- Better play calling
- More support from the defense

If some or most or all of these things are added this offseason, I still want to give Kirk a chance in this offense. I think we saw enough flashes, especially early on in the season, to believe that with more help, he can be good enough for this team to win games.

Is he Brady or Rodgers out there who can win games by himself? No. And we didn’t assume he was when he came here.

I’m concerned about the lack of clutch factor to his game in 2018, but he’s the guy going into 2019 like it or not. Let’s beef up the OL, add a weapon or two and see what happens.

I want us to draft a quarterback more than every 5-10 years. I want us to not go after re-tread quarterbacks. To not assemble a line that sucks - year after year. I want Spielman fired. I cannot stand him and this crap year after year. He can't spot a starting lineman or quarterback to save his life.

If the Saints win the Super Bowl that will be our second starting quarterback to win a Super Bowl as a back up on another team. Spielman just cannot judge quarterback talent or offensive line talent. He sticks Zimmer with this crap year in and year out. Now Kubiak is here - that reeks of Spielman trying to cover his butt. Because if Cousins struggles he can fire Zimmer and promote Kubiak mid-season to save his own butt.

I did have a lot of hope for Cousins, but my main issue was that no team would ever let a franchise quarterback walk away. They are the most valuable asset in all of sports. If you have one that is good you would never let one go. Especially when you bring in Alex Smith. For Spielman not to see that or evaluate Cousins shows he continues to be a complete liability to this team. Lets not forget we traded a first rounder for Bradford - who was Cousins with a bum knee. Same record, same check downs, same crap.

I am willing to give Cousins another year because of the rubes who love him and that we are basically trapped at this point, but his leash would be the shortest in NFL history. I would also take a quarterback if one fell to us. It would send a message to everyone that we are not just going to lay down. I'd take offensive linemen for every round after that. Except that we need a linebacker when Barr leaves, we will need a kicker, and probably a really good runningback because Cook is injury prone.

I am too jaded for someone like Cousins. The guy is in his 30s and there just isn't a lot of hope that he is gonna get better. We need AP in his prime, but between him and Cousins it would be a million turn overs and most of our cap space. Cousins is paid to be a playmaker, but he isn't making plays when the team needs him to.

Spielman isn't going to draft an offensive lineman who is gonna fix this. He's had a ton of years and we sit in the same spot. Same problems.

[RubeTube]

Objectively, it was obviously a disappointing season for Cousins and the Vikings.

But what is the point of these discussions? Are you advocating that they give up and cut Cousins? Are you needing validation for being weary of Cousins early on when he was signed?

He needs to be better in 2019.

Some things that could help:

- Improved protection up front
- Some semblance of a running game
- A reliable third option in the passing game
- Better play calling
- More support from the defense

If some or most or all of these things are added this offseason, I still want to give Kirk a chance in this offense. I think we saw enough flashes, especially early on in the season, to believe that with more help, he can be good enough for this team to win games.

Is he Brady or Rodgers out there who can win games by himself? No. And we didn’t assume he was when he came here.

I’m concerned about the lack of clutch factor to his game in 2018, but he’s the guy going into 2019 like it or not. Let’s beef up the OL, add a weapon or two and see what happens.

I want us to draft a quarterback more than every 5-10 years. I want us to not go after re-tread quarterbacks. To not assemble a line that sucks - year after year. I want Spielman fired. I cannot stand him and this crap year after year. He can't spot a starting lineman or quarterback to save his life.

If the Saints win the Super Bowl that will be our second starting quarterback to win a Super Bowl as a back up on another team. Spielman just cannot judge quarterback talent or offensive line talent. He sticks Zimmer with this crap year in and year out. Now Kubiak is here - that reeks of Spielman trying to cover his butt. Because if Cousins struggles he can fire Zimmer and promote Kubiak mid-season to save his own butt.

I did have a lot of hope for Cousins, but my main issue was that no team would ever let a franchise quarterback walk away. They are the most valuable asset in all of sports. If you have one that is good you would never let one go. Especially when you bring in Alex Smith. For Spielman not to see that or evaluate Cousins shows he continues to be a complete liability to this team. Lets not forget we traded a first rounder for Bradford - who was Cousins with a bum knee. Same record, same check downs, same crap.

I am willing to give Cousins another year because of the rubes who love him and that we are basically trapped at this point, but his leash would be the shortest in NFL history. I would also take a quarterback if one fell to us. It would send a message to everyone that we are not just going to lay down. I'd take offensive linemen for every round after that. Except that we need a linebacker when Barr leaves, we will need a kicker, and probably a really good runningback because Cook is injury prone.

I am too jaded for someone like Cousins. The guy is in his 30s and there just isn't a lot of hope that he is gonna get better. We need AP in his prime, but between him and Cousins it would be a million turn overs and most of our cap space. Cousins is paid to be a playmaker, but he isn't making plays when the team needs him to.

Spielman isn't going to draft an offensive lineman who is gonna fix this. He's had a ton of years and we sit in the same spot. Same problems.

Now show us some Teddy Bridgewater stats for the 100th time in the one season he played in that was mediocre as hell.

[Ash Ketchum]

Objectively, it was obviously a disappointing season for Cousins and the Vikings.

But what is the point of these discussions? Are you advocating that they give up and cut Cousins? Are you needing validation for being weary of Cousins early on when he was signed?

He needs to be better in 2019.

Some things that could help:

- Improved protection up front
- Some semblance of a running game
- A reliable third option in the passing game
- Better play calling
- More support from the defense

If some or most or all of these things are added this offseason, I still want to give Kirk a chance in this offense. I think we saw enough flashes, especially early on in the season, to believe that with more help, he can be good enough for this team to win games.

Is he Brady or Rodgers out there who can win games by himself? No. And we didn’t assume he was when he came here.

I’m concerned about the lack of clutch factor to his game in 2018, but he’s the guy going into 2019 like it or not. Let’s beef up the OL, add a weapon or two and see what happens.

I want us to draft a quarterback more than every 5-10 years. I want us to not go after re-tread quarterbacks. To not assemble a line that sucks - year after year. I want Spielman fired. I cannot stand him and this crap year after year. He can't spot a starting lineman or quarterback to save his life.

If the Saints win the Super Bowl that will be our second starting quarterback to win a Super Bowl as a back up on another team. Spielman just cannot judge quarterback talent or offensive line talent. He sticks Zimmer with this crap year in and year out. Now Kubiak is here - that reeks of Spielman trying to cover his butt. Because if Cousins struggles he can fire Zimmer and promote Kubiak mid-season to save his own butt.

I did have a lot of hope for Cousins, but my main issue was that no team would ever let a franchise quarterback walk away. They are the most valuable asset in all of sports. If you have one that is good you would never let one go. Especially when you bring in Alex Smith. For Spielman not to see that or evaluate Cousins shows he continues to be a complete liability to this team. Lets not forget we traded a first rounder for Bradford - who was Cousins with a bum knee. Same record, same check downs, same crap.

I am willing to give Cousins another year because of the rubes who love him and that we are basically trapped at this point, but his leash would be the shortest in NFL history. I would also take a quarterback if one fell to us. It would send a message to everyone that we are not just going to lay down. I'd take offensive linemen for every round after that. Except that we need a linebacker when Barr leaves, we will need a kicker, and probably a really good runningback because Cook is injury prone.

I am too jaded for someone like Cousins. The guy is in his 30s and there just isn't a lot of hope that he is gonna get better. We need AP in his prime, but between him and Cousins it would be a million turn overs and most of our cap space. Cousins is paid to be a playmaker, but he isn't making plays when the team needs him to.

Spielman isn't going to draft an offensive lineman who is gonna fix this. He's had a ton of years and we sit in the same spot. Same problems.

If you draft a QB every 5-10 years, you need to be picking relatively early in the first round to have a decent chance at getting a good QB.

If you have a QB, it makes almost no sense to waste your first rounder on another QB because (a) there won’t be reps for the new QB to develop further and (b) it’s better to use that first rounder to surround the current QB with more help.

If you’re talking about spending a mid round pick on a lottery pick at QB, but the list of late drafted QBs who go onto have success later is minuscule. Again, there’s almost no meaningful reps in practice or games to develop.

I am with you. It would be nice to find a true, legit franchise QB in the draft, but that almost always has to happen at the top of the first round, and even still, you have to be lucky enough to be picking a QB in a year where there’s a good one available.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

Objectively, it was obviously a disappointing season for Cousins and the Vikings.

But what is the point of these discussions? Are you advocating that they give up and cut Cousins? Are you needing validation for being weary of Cousins early on when he was signed?

He needs to be better in 2019.

Some things that could help:

- Improved protection up front
- Some semblance of a running game
- A reliable third option in the passing game
- Better play calling
- More support from the defense

If some or most or all of these things are added this offseason, I still want to give Kirk a chance in this offense. I think we saw enough flashes, especially early on in the season, to believe that with more help, he can be good enough for this team to win games.

Is he Brady or Rodgers out there who can win games by himself? No. And we didn’t assume he was when he came here.

I’m concerned about the lack of clutch factor to his game in 2018, but he’s the guy going into 2019 like it or not. Let’s beef up the OL, add a weapon or two and see what happens.

I want us to draft a quarterback more than every 5-10 years. I want us to not go after re-tread quarterbacks. To not assemble a line that sucks - year after year. I want Spielman fired. I cannot stand him and this crap year after year. He can't spot a starting lineman or quarterback to save his life.

If the Saints win the Super Bowl that will be our second starting quarterback to win a Super Bowl as a back up on another team. Spielman just cannot judge quarterback talent or offensive line talent. He sticks Zimmer with this crap year in and year out. Now Kubiak is here - that reeks of Spielman trying to cover his butt. Because if Cousins struggles he can fire Zimmer and promote Kubiak mid-season to save his own butt.

I did have a lot of hope for Cousins, but my main issue was that no team would ever let a franchise quarterback walk away. They are the most valuable asset in all of sports. If you have one that is good you would never let one go. Especially when you bring in Alex Smith. For Spielman not to see that or evaluate Cousins shows he continues to be a complete liability to this team. Lets not forget we traded a first rounder for Bradford - who was Cousins with a bum knee. Same record, same check downs, same crap.

I am willing to give Cousins another year because of the rubes who love him and that we are basically trapped at this point, but his leash would be the shortest in NFL history. I would also take a quarterback if one fell to us. It would send a message to everyone that we are not just going to lay down. I'd take offensive linemen for every round after that. Except that we need a linebacker when Barr leaves, we will need a kicker, and probably a really good runningback because Cook is injury prone.

I am too jaded for someone like Cousins. The guy is in his 30s and there just isn't a lot of hope that he is gonna get better. We need AP in his prime, but between him and Cousins it would be a million turn overs and most of our cap space. Cousins is paid to be a playmaker, but he isn't making plays when the team needs him to.

Spielman isn't going to draft an offensive lineman who is gonna fix this. He's had a ton of years and we sit in the same spot. Same problems.

Ahem.

[cunningham]

Objectively, it was obviously a disappointing season for Cousins and the Vikings.

But what is the point of these discussions? Are you advocating that they give up and cut Cousins? Are you needing validation for being weary of Cousins early on when he was signed?

He needs to be better in 2019.

Some things that could help:

- Improved protection up front
- Some semblance of a running game
- A reliable third option in the passing game
- Better play calling
- More support from the defense

If some or most or all of these things are added this offseason, I still want to give Kirk a chance in this offense. I think we saw enough flashes, especially early on in the season, to believe that with more help, he can be good enough for this team to win games.

Is he Brady or Rodgers out there who can win games by himself? No. And we didn’t assume he was when he came here.

I’m concerned about the lack of clutch factor to his game in 2018, but he’s the guy going into 2019 like it or not. Let’s beef up the OL, add a weapon or two and see what happens.

I want us to draft a quarterback more than every 5-10 years. I want us to not go after re-tread quarterbacks. To not assemble a line that sucks - year after year. I want Spielman fired. I cannot stand him and this crap year after year. He can't spot a starting lineman or quarterback to save his life.

If the Saints win the Super Bowl that will be our second starting quarterback to win a Super Bowl as a back up on another team. Spielman just cannot judge quarterback talent or offensive line talent. He sticks Zimmer with this crap year in and year out. Now Kubiak is here - that reeks of Spielman trying to cover his butt. Because if Cousins struggles he can fire Zimmer and promote Kubiak mid-season to save his own butt.

I did have a lot of hope for Cousins, but my main issue was that no team would ever let a franchise quarterback walk away. They are the most valuable asset in all of sports. If you have one that is good you would never let one go. Especially when you bring in Alex Smith. For Spielman not to see that or evaluate Cousins shows he continues to be a complete liability to this team. Lets not forget we traded a first rounder for Bradford - who was Cousins with a bum knee. Same record, same check downs, same crap.

I am willing to give Cousins another year because of the rubes who love him and that we are basically trapped at this point, but his leash would be the shortest in NFL history. I would also take a quarterback if one fell to us. It would send a message to everyone that we are not just going to lay down. I'd take offensive linemen for every round after that. Except that we need a linebacker when Barr leaves, we will need a kicker, and probably a really good runningback because Cook is injury prone.

I am too jaded for someone like Cousins. The guy is in his 30s and there just isn't a lot of hope that he is gonna get better. We need AP in his prime, but between him and Cousins it would be a million turn overs and most of our cap space. Cousins is paid to be a playmaker, but he isn't making plays when the team needs him to.

Spielman isn't going to draft an offensive lineman who is gonna fix this. He's had a ton of years and we sit in the same spot. Same problems.

Ahem.

Nice one. Just something I wrote in passing. If you look at my posts I don’t think I have talked about Cousins being a checkdown guy. I was wrong to lump them together in that category. Bradford checked down, Teddy checked down, but Cousins presses the ball deep where others would check down.

I should have been more specific in my description of the two quarterbacks. Both were great at throwing deep, but Cousins is much better. Cousins is better in the red zone too. Just harder for him to get there.

I would bet if we compared red zone opportunities that Cousins has had fewer drives in the red zone than Bradford did if all things were equaled.

I think Cousins looks deep for throws and misses lots of open guys on shorter routes. His biggest problem is not throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down. That was Bradford.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

I want us to draft a quarterback more than every 5-10 years. I want us to not go after re-tread quarterbacks. To not assemble a line that sucks - year after year. I want Spielman fired. I cannot stand him and this crap year after year. He can't spot a starting lineman or quarterback to save his life.

If the Saints win the Super Bowl that will be our second starting quarterback to win a Super Bowl as a back up on another team. Spielman just cannot judge quarterback talent or offensive line talent. He sticks Zimmer with this crap year in and year out. Now Kubiak is here - that reeks of Spielman trying to cover his butt. Because if Cousins struggles he can fire Zimmer and promote Kubiak mid-season to save his own butt.

I did have a lot of hope for Cousins, but my main issue was that no team would ever let a franchise quarterback walk away. They are the most valuable asset in all of sports. If you have one that is good you would never let one go. Especially when you bring in Alex Smith. For Spielman not to see that or evaluate Cousins shows he continues to be a complete liability to this team. Lets not forget we traded a first rounder for Bradford - who was Cousins with a bum knee. Same record, same check downs, same crap.

I am willing to give Cousins another year because of the rubes who love him and that we are basically trapped at this point, but his leash would be the shortest in NFL history. I would also take a quarterback if one fell to us. It would send a message to everyone that we are not just going to lay down. I'd take offensive linemen for every round after that. Except that we need a linebacker when Barr leaves, we will need a kicker, and probably a really good runningback because Cook is injury prone.

I am too jaded for someone like Cousins. The guy is in his 30s and there just isn't a lot of hope that he is gonna get better. We need AP in his prime, but between him and Cousins it would be a million turn overs and most of our cap space. Cousins is paid to be a playmaker, but he isn't making plays when the team needs him to.

Spielman isn't going to draft an offensive lineman who is gonna fix this. He's had a ton of years and we sit in the same spot. Same problems.

Ahem.

Nice one. Just something I wrote in passing. If you look at my posts I don’t think I have talked about Cousins being a checkdown guy. I was wrong to lump them together in that category. Bradford checked down, Teddy checked down, but Cousins presses the ball deep where others would check down.

I should have been more specific in my description of the two quarterbacks. Both were great at throwing deep, but Cousins is much better. Cousins is better in the red zone too. Just harder for him to get there.

I would bet if we compared red zone opportunities that Cousins has had fewer drives in the red zone than Bradford did if all things were equaled.

I think Cousins looks deep for throws and misses lots of open guys on shorter routes. His biggest problem is not throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down. That was Bradford.

Something you said in passing? If I look at your posts? This is your post.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

I want us to draft a quarterback more than every 5-10 years. I want us to not go after re-tread quarterbacks. To not assemble a line that sucks - year after year. I want Spielman fired. I cannot stand him and this crap year after year. He can't spot a starting lineman or quarterback to save his life.

If the Saints win the Super Bowl that will be our second starting quarterback to win a Super Bowl as a back up on another team. Spielman just cannot judge quarterback talent or offensive line talent. He sticks Zimmer with this crap year in and year out. Now Kubiak is here - that reeks of Spielman trying to cover his butt. Because if Cousins struggles he can fire Zimmer and promote Kubiak mid-season to save his own butt.

I did have a lot of hope for Cousins, but my main issue was that no team would ever let a franchise quarterback walk away. They are the most valuable asset in all of sports. If you have one that is good you would never let one go. Especially when you bring in Alex Smith. For Spielman not to see that or evaluate Cousins shows he continues to be a complete liability to this team. Lets not forget we traded a first rounder for Bradford - who was Cousins with a bum knee. Same record, same check downs, same crap.

I am willing to give Cousins another year because of the rubes who love him and that we are basically trapped at this point, but his leash would be the shortest in NFL history. I would also take a quarterback if one fell to us. It would send a message to everyone that we are not just going to lay down. I'd take offensive linemen for every round after that. Except that we need a linebacker when Barr leaves, we will need a kicker, and probably a really good runningback because Cook is injury prone.

I am too jaded for someone like Cousins. The guy is in his 30s and there just isn't a lot of hope that he is gonna get better. We need AP in his prime, but between him and Cousins it would be a million turn overs and most of our cap space. Cousins is paid to be a playmaker, but he isn't making plays when the team needs him to.

Spielman isn't going to draft an offensive lineman who is gonna fix this. He's had a ton of years and we sit in the same spot. Same problems.

Ahem.

Nice one. Just something I wrote in passing. If you look at my posts I don’t think I have talked about Cousins being a checkdown guy. I was wrong to lump them together in that category. Bradford checked down, Teddy checked down, but Cousins presses the ball deep where others would check down.

I should have been more specific in my description of the two quarterbacks. Both were great at throwing deep, but Cousins is much better. Cousins is better in the red zone too. Just harder for him to get there.

I would bet if we compared red zone opportunities that Cousins has had fewer drives in the red zone than Bradford did if all things were equaled.

I think Cousins looks deep for throws and misses lots of open guys on shorter routes. His biggest problem is not throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down. That was Bradford.

What does that even mean?

[cunningham]

Ahem.

Nice one. Just something I wrote in passing. If you look at my posts I don’t think I have talked about Cousins being a checkdown guy. I was wrong to lump them together in that category. Bradford checked down, Teddy checked down, but Cousins presses the ball deep where others would check down.

I should have been more specific in my description of the two quarterbacks. Both were great at throwing deep, but Cousins is much better. Cousins is better in the red zone too. Just harder for him to get there.

I would bet if we compared red zone opportunities that Cousins has had fewer drives in the red zone than Bradford did if all things were equaled.

I think Cousins looks deep for throws and misses lots of open guys on shorter routes. His biggest problem is not throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down. That was Bradford.

Something you said in passing? If I look at your posts? This is your post.

I feel like Bradford and Cousins have a lot in common, but Cousins isn’t a checkdown guy. Sometimes I wish he would checkdown a little more.

Cousins is just not good enough. Neither are Zimmer or Spielman. They all must go.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

Nice one. Just something I wrote in passing. If you look at my posts I don’t think I have talked about Cousins being a checkdown guy. I was wrong to lump them together in that category. Bradford checked down, Teddy checked down, but Cousins presses the ball deep where others would check down.

I should have been more specific in my description of the two quarterbacks. Both were great at throwing deep, but Cousins is much better. Cousins is better in the red zone too. Just harder for him to get there.

I would bet if we compared red zone opportunities that Cousins has had fewer drives in the red zone than Bradford did if all things were equaled.

I think Cousins looks deep for throws and misses lots of open guys on shorter routes. His biggest problem is not throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down. That was Bradford.

Something you said in passing? If I look at your posts? This is your post.

I feel like Bradford and Cousins have a lot in common, but Cousins isn’t a checkdown guy. Sometimes I wish he would checkdown a little more.

Cousins is just not good enough. Neither are Zimmer or Spielman. They all must go.

Really? Who said this then:

“Cousins doesn't get first downs and is a step above Ponder. Checkdown Charlie with an arm.”

[cunningham]

Something you said in passing? If I look at your posts? This is your post.

I feel like Bradford and Cousins have a lot in common, but Cousins isn’t a checkdown guy. Sometimes I wish he would checkdown a little more.

Cousins is just not good enough. Neither are Zimmer or Spielman. They all must go.

Really? Who said this then:

“Cousins doesn't get first downs and is a step above Ponder. Checkdown Charlie with an arm.”

Ponder was the Checkdown Charlie and didn’t get first downs because he threw short. Cousins is like ponder in that he doesn’t get first downs, but he has a big arm.

Hence he is Checkdown Charlie (Ponder) with an arm. Both failed to get first downs when needed.

Cousins looks deep at all times. His accuracy is best when he throws deeper routes. He struggles to checkdown and will press the ball deep. Maybe that is why he blows the throw to Jefferson coming across the field at a shorter distance, but could hit Thielen in the end zone beautiful?

Whatever the issue is this organization is not even close to sniffing a Super Bowl. Closest we have been in ages was with Keenum in there gunslinging it while praying.

Cousins isn’t a leader. Read the huge article JPM posted in another thread. Laid the whole thing out very well how this team is just a dysfunctional mess. Zimmer is nearly blind and getting too old. Cousins is a nerdy guy who can’t lead. The team resents him and his contract. Zimmer is a bitchy old man who is too stuck in his ways. Spielman doesn’t even say hello to players.

The issue in the article keeps going back to how this thing got messed up after the Eagles loss. That was the peak and now we are just spinning our wheels and getting no where.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

I feel like Bradford and Cousins have a lot in common, but Cousins isn’t a checkdown guy. Sometimes I wish he would checkdown a little more.

Cousins is just not good enough. Neither are Zimmer or Spielman. They all must go.

Really? Who said this then:

“Cousins doesn't get first downs and is a step above Ponder. Checkdown Charlie with an arm.”

Ponder was the Checkdown Charlie and didn’t get first downs because he threw short. Cousins is like ponder in that he doesn’t get first downs, but he has a big arm.

Hence he is Checkdown Charlie (Ponder) with an arm. Both failed to get first downs when needed.

Cousins looks deep at all times. His accuracy is best when he throws deeper routes. He struggles to checkdown and will press the ball deep. Maybe that is why he blows the throw to Jefferson coming across the field at a shorter distance, but could hit Thielen in the end zone beautiful?

Whatever the issue is this organization is not even close to sniffing a Super Bowl. Closest we have been in ages was with Keenum in there gunslinging it while praying.

Cousins isn’t a leader. Read the huge article JPM posted in another thread. Laid the whole thing out very well how this team is just a dysfunctional mess. Zimmer is nearly blind and getting too old. Cousins is a nerdy guy who can’t lead. The team resents him and his contract. Zimmer is a bitchy old man who is too stuck in his ways. Spielman doesn’t even say hello to players.

The issue in the article keeps going back to how this thing got messed up after the Eagles loss. That was the peak and now we are just spinning our wheels and getting no where.

Are you giving me an alternate and incorrect definition of check down Charlie?

[cunningham]

Really? Who said this then:

“Cousins doesn't get first downs and is a step above Ponder. Checkdown Charlie with an arm.”

Ponder was the Checkdown Charlie and didn’t get first downs because he threw short. Cousins is like ponder in that he doesn’t get first downs, but he has a big arm.

Hence he is Checkdown Charlie (Ponder) with an arm. Both failed to get first downs when needed.

Cousins looks deep at all times. His accuracy is best when he throws deeper routes. He struggles to checkdown and will press the ball deep. Maybe that is why he blows the throw to Jefferson coming across the field at a shorter distance, but could hit Thielen in the end zone beautiful?

Whatever the issue is this organization is not even close to sniffing a Super Bowl. Closest we have been in ages was with Keenum in there gunslinging it while praying.

Cousins isn’t a leader. Read the huge article JPM posted in another thread. Laid the whole thing out very well how this team is just a dysfunctional mess. Zimmer is nearly blind and getting too old. Cousins is a nerdy guy who can’t lead. The team resents him and his contract. Zimmer is a bitchy old man who is too stuck in his ways. Spielman doesn’t even say hello to players.

The issue in the article keeps going back to how this thing got messed up after the Eagles loss. That was the peak and now we are just spinning our wheels and getting no where.

Are you giving me an alternate and incorrect definition of check down Charlie?

No. Ponder was a checkdown Charlie. Cousins isn’t. He’d rather press and throw deep. Bridgewater would checkdown, but he also was always cognizant of the first down marker. Ponder just ran around nervous and often preferred to check down.

Some guys look deep for a small window and then just checkdown constantly. That would be Ponder. Or the dumbass would try to run thinking he was in college still. He sucked.

Cousins will lock on the deep route. When he gets pressured he throws it. Tons of interceptions this season because teams will just move coverage to curb that. A good defense will do that easily. Seahawks just dropped most guys into coverage when Defillippo was here. Which is part of why Zimmer fired him. Now Cousins has plays designed for how he plays by Kubiak, but he also blew several games this season early due to his turnovers. Teams get it, but Kubes adjusts.

Bradford was a checkdown guy, had an arm, but was broken by the time we got him. The guy was a curse on most teams. When he came in to any team they lost more games than the one before.

[Bros Before Shiancoes]

Ponder was the Checkdown Charlie and didn’t get first downs because he threw short. Cousins is like ponder in that he doesn’t get first downs, but he has a big arm.

Hence he is Checkdown Charlie (Ponder) with an arm. Both failed to get first downs when needed.

Cousins looks deep at all times. His accuracy is best when he throws deeper routes. He struggles to checkdown and will press the ball deep. Maybe that is why he blows the throw to Jefferson coming across the field at a shorter distance, but could hit Thielen in the end zone beautiful?

Whatever the issue is this organization is not even close to sniffing a Super Bowl. Closest we have been in ages was with Keenum in there gunslinging it while praying.

Cousins isn’t a leader. Read the huge article JPM posted in another thread. Laid the whole thing out very well how this team is just a dysfunctional mess. Zimmer is nearly blind and getting too old. Cousins is a nerdy guy who can’t lead. The team resents him and his contract. Zimmer is a bitchy old man who is too stuck in his ways. Spielman doesn’t even say hello to players.

The issue in the article keeps going back to how this thing got messed up after the Eagles loss. That was the peak and now we are just spinning our wheels and getting no where.

Are you giving me an alternate and incorrect definition of check down Charlie?

No. Ponder was a checkdown Charlie. Cousins isn’t. He’d rather press and throw deep. Bridgewater would checkdown, but he also was always cognizant of the first down marker. Ponder just ran around nervous and often preferred to check down.

Some guys look deep for a small window and then just checkdown constantly. That would be Ponder. Or the dumbass would try to run thinking he was in college still. He sucked.

Cousins will lock on the deep route. When he gets pressured he throws it. Tons of interceptions this season because teams will just move coverage to curb that. A good defense will do that easily. Seahawks just dropped most guys into coverage when Defillippo was here. Which is part of why Zimmer fired him. Now Cousins has plays designed for how he plays by Kubiak, but he also blew several games this season early due to his turnovers. Teams get it, but Kubes adjusts.

Bradford was a checkdown guy, had an arm, but was broken by the time we got him. The guy was a curse on most teams. When he came in to any team they lost more games than the one before.

For a guy that hovers at or just below 70% completion percentage for his career, who locks in and can only connect on the deep route, he must be unbelievable down field. I mean, like Madden style, draft tall fast WR’s and just throw it up every play. Should we tell Kubes?