Maybe next year we address the OL

[DC4MVP]

I think it's a schematic thing.

I agree.

Honestly, while I think we still need to improve talent wise, it doesn't help matters when there's a new line combo almost every week which doesn't allow a line to gel with each other.

Think of it like receivers with a QB. There needs to be a rapport between the two. They need to be able to know and trust each other and just know what each other are going to do every route. Same with linemen. A LT needs to know that the LG is going to have his gap if there's a blitz coming and the LT needs to pick someone else up. Same with guards and centers.

Our line has been vastly injured for what? 2-3 straight seasons now and we've had how many line combos?

[hategreenticemase]

The issue isn't as simple as upgrading personnel. There are like 20 guys in the NFL who are legit difference makers on the O-line. The rest of them are just guys. No one can block these D-lineman the league has anymore. They're too big, too fast, and too strong.

I think it's a schematic thing. The fix? As much as I hate the way they play, do what Green Bay does. Dare the refs to call 15 holding penalties on you every game. Even if they pop you 2 or 3 times, you're getting away with it 20 other times. The only way to block these guys is to cheat. We don't do enough of it.

All but 20 lineman in league are "just guys"? GB tells their players to hold every down?
Dude, you are better than that. Quit VASTLY oversimplifying it and making silly generalizations.

I can actually agree on there is likely a small number of elite or difference makers. Saying everone else is just a guy is ludicrous. So Berger was elite? Or wait, just a guy? Elf too? Give me a break. Those two, along with Reiff are solid and good lineman. None of those 3 (well maybe Elf will be soon) are elite either. You are too good a poster to make silly oversimplifying statements like that.

Facts are really simple. We were horrible at G coming in. We had a LG who was our weakest player last year, along with Remmers. Those 2 guys were a little below avg while our other 3 starters were good. Our true problem developed when Berger retired. Now, we still had no upgrade at LG and we lost our good RG. Other weak link (Remmers) we thought we could create a G out of - was a reasonable gamble, but it failed. Meanwhile, we never replaced the other G spot and still had no RT.

[hategreenticemase]

Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it. They need to figure out the guard situation, problem is the draft of course is after free agency so until the draft happens, everyone on here will be flipping out about the guards. They will sign a guy or two for 1-2 years, little money and we'll all flip out in March because our guards on paper suck.

I'm convinced Remmers is gone, I thought it was essentially a two year deal for 10-12 mil. I think he'll be gone after this season, maybe Rashod Hill is back as the swing tackle though Collins will be here too and we've all heard they like him of course. Isidora is the guy the Vikings really could use to step up and have a good stretch here -- he didn't play well in preseason and by all accounts he didn't play well last week. I am somewhat surprised they went away from Brett Jones at this point as if they only want him to play center. I still don't mind giving up a 7th though for a rotational guy who can give you some spot starts. Most 7th rounders don't do that.

So yeah, draft.. first round... best available interior OL guy. With an extra third, you would hope they use another pick in the 3rd or 4th round on offensive line too.

HHM, I have to ask this: Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it.
Why? Why is it a "they will address it"? Its preposterous at this point to assume they will. Preposterous. Everyone keeps acting as if this is fucking new, this is a new problem. Huh? What? That just slays me.

THIS TEAMS BIGGEST WEAKNESS HAS BEEN OL FOR 5 YEARS. Its been its ONLY significant weakness the last 2-3. Of course you are right and they likely will, but lets not assume they will. If they wouldnt have been so cavalier about the position in first place the last few years we wouldnt be in this God damn mess.

I agree that Remmers will be gone, and he damn sure SHOULD be gone. Saves money and he has been a fail at two positions. Hill is possibly ok as a swing T, and the point is, I dont see a whole lot of difference between the two so its almost a no brainer.

Isadora from what I have seen has been very inconsistent. No clue if he has a shot or not. We will see. Compton can go on the first fn bus as far as I am concerned - we KNOW he cant play.

The one thing we have going - IF they do it, is you can get a good starting G where we will be drafting in first. There is hope for that. Again, they loved Hughes, I had no issue with that decision - but I assumed (see my point above) that it wouldnt come at the expense of NOT getting a G also. We had to get a starting G, period. Or a T. They got a project guy in O'neill who may end up being good, but they did nothing for this year and that is just unacceptable when we signed an 84 million dollar qb, have a SB roster, and only one really concerning weakness.

[beetlebum71]

The issue isn't as simple as upgrading personnel. There are like 20 guys in the NFL who are legit difference makers on the O-line. The rest of them are just guys. No one can block these D-lineman the league has anymore. They're too big, too fast, and too strong.

I think it's a schematic thing. The fix? As much as I hate the way they play, do what Green Bay does. Dare the refs to call 15 holding penalties on you every game. Even if they pop you 2 or 3 times, you're getting away with it 20 other times. The only way to block these guys is to cheat. We don't do enough of it.

All but 20 lineman in league are "just guys"? GB tells their players to hold every down?
Dude, you are better than that. Quit VASTLY oversimplifying it and making silly generalizations.

I can actually agree on there is likely a small number of elite or difference makers. Saying everone else is just a guy is ludicrous. So Berger was elite? Or wait, just a guy? Elf too? Give me a break. Those two, along with Reiff are solid and good lineman. None of those 3 (well maybe Elf will be soon) are elite either. You are too good a poster to make silly oversimplifying statements like that.

Facts are really simple. We were horrible at G coming in. We had a LG who was our weakest player last year, along with Remmers. Those 2 guys were a little below avg while our other 3 starters were good. Our true problem developed when Berger retired. Now, we still had no upgrade at LG and we lost our good RG. Other weak link (Remmers) we thought we could create a G out of - was a reasonable gamble, but it failed. Meanwhile, we never replaced the other G spot and still had no RT.

Being just a guy doesn't mean you can't play well. Elf gets low grades from PFF, gets noticeably beat, and hasn't been real healthy. He's got some skills, and he'll probably keep getting better for a while, but right now he's just another lineman in the league. Top half at his position. Berger was the definition of just a guy. He had some solid years here, but was fighting for a job most years in camp, been cut multiple times, including twice by the same team. Again, he was a solid linemen, but he was nothing special. Reiff is a middle of the road LT. He's nothing special, and probably profiles better on the other side.

My point was that the league is full of lineman who can play, but most of them are within one standard deviation of each other on the ball curve of starting linemen. You can rearrange the deck chairs all you want, but you're better off installing a good system and trying to create some continuity. The odds that you're going to find a real star is slim. You hope you find one, and then just surround that guy with 4 dudes who compliment each other and play well together. Then, you pray for health, because very few teams have any real depth on the line. Injuries there are killers.

[bombers3shooter]

We all know that Case Keenum wasn't a perrenial All-Pro type QB, but his pocket presence and movement in the pocket masked alot of the problems with the offensive line. When is Ricks ignorance and neglect on this going to be his kiss of death? How many seasons are going to go down the tubes largely because of the quality of the 5 we have up front? Our 84 million guaranteed is going to not be able to get up one of these times if the punishment continues!

[JPM]

It's the Vikings. We're you expecting something different?

[Simpson Get Lifted]

It's the Vikings. We're you expecting something different?

The difference being that we're talking about basically one position group vs. ignoring pretty much every position group except one. Amirite?

[hategreenticemase]

We all know that Case Keenum wasn't a perrenial All-Pro type QB, but his pocket presence and movement in the pocket masked alot of the problems with the offensive line. When is Ricks ignorance and neglect on this going to be his kiss of death? How many seasons are going to go down the tubes largely because of the quality of the 5 we have up front? Our 84 million guaranteed is going to not be able to get up one of these times if the punishment continues!

All points are spot fn on! Well stated.

[hategreenticemase]

The issue isn't as simple as upgrading personnel. There are like 20 guys in the NFL who are legit difference makers on the O-line. The rest of them are just guys. No one can block these D-lineman the league has anymore. They're too big, too fast, and too strong.

I think it's a schematic thing. The fix? As much as I hate the way they play, do what Green Bay does. Dare the refs to call 15 holding penalties on you every game. Even if they pop you 2 or 3 times, you're getting away with it 20 other times. The only way to block these guys is to cheat. We don't do enough of it.

All but 20 lineman in league are "just guys"? GB tells their players to hold every down?
Dude, you are better than that. Quit VASTLY oversimplifying it and making silly generalizations.

I can actually agree on there is likely a small number of elite or difference makers. Saying everone else is just a guy is ludicrous. So Berger was elite? Or wait, just a guy? Elf too? Give me a break. Those two, along with Reiff are solid and good lineman. None of those 3 (well maybe Elf will be soon) are elite either. You are too good a poster to make silly oversimplifying statements like that.

Facts are really simple. We were horrible at G coming in. We had a LG who was our weakest player last year, along with Remmers. Those 2 guys were a little below avg while our other 3 starters were good. Our true problem developed when Berger retired. Now, we still had no upgrade at LG and we lost our good RG. Other weak link (Remmers) we thought we could create a G out of - was a reasonable gamble, but it failed. Meanwhile, we never replaced the other G spot and still had no RT.

Being just a guy doesn't mean you can't play well. Elf gets low grades from PFF, gets noticeably beat, and hasn't been real healthy. He's got some skills, and he'll probably keep getting better for a while, but right now he's just another lineman in the league. Top half at his position. Berger was the definition of just a guy. He had some solid years here, but was fighting for a job most years in camp, been cut multiple times, including twice by the same team. Again, he was a solid linemen, but he was nothing special. Reiff is a middle of the road LT. He's nothing special, and probably profiles better on the other side.

My point was that the league is full of lineman who can play, but most of them are within one standard deviation of each other on the ball curve of starting linemen. You can rearrange the deck chairs all you want, but you're better off installing a good system and trying to create some continuity. The odds that you're going to find a real star is slim. You hope you find one, and then just surround that guy with 4 dudes who compliment each other and play well together. Then, you pray for health, because very few teams have any real depth on the line. Injuries there are killers.

Usually when someone tries using something as meaningless as PFF ratings - about as meaningful as the rankings my mailman has - I don't place much stock in whatever point is being made. Here, it's ironically the opposite. While I give almost no creditibility to the pretend ratings PFF contrives I do remember several times posters claiming ELF was one of the highest rated centers last year and for like 3 years running Berger was our highest rated lineman prior to last year.

Sorry, it's hogwash not acknowledging Berger was a damn consistent and quality lineman. Who gives a flying F that he started as a jouneyman to start? And he was hardly"fighting for a position" his last 3-4 years. That's nonsense.

It's also silliness not acknowledging Elf is a quality center. Christ, it's only after he has been back that we have had any semblence of a running game and that's with him playing in between garbage at guards that are routinely pushed into the backfield.

If this team had two guys at rg and lg who were Joe Berger 2015-2016 this OL would be a RT away from being good and be massively better than what we are now.

[beetlebum71]

All but 20 lineman in league are "just guys"? GB tells their players to hold every down?
Dude, you are better than that. Quit VASTLY oversimplifying it and making silly generalizations.

I can actually agree on there is likely a small number of elite or difference makers. Saying everone else is just a guy is ludicrous. So Berger was elite? Or wait, just a guy? Elf too? Give me a break. Those two, along with Reiff are solid and good lineman. None of those 3 (well maybe Elf will be soon) are elite either. You are too good a poster to make silly oversimplifying statements like that.

Facts are really simple. We were horrible at G coming in. We had a LG who was our weakest player last year, along with Remmers. Those 2 guys were a little below avg while our other 3 starters were good. Our true problem developed when Berger retired. Now, we still had no upgrade at LG and we lost our good RG. Other weak link (Remmers) we thought we could create a G out of - was a reasonable gamble, but it failed. Meanwhile, we never replaced the other G spot and still had no RT.

Being just a guy doesn't mean you can't play well. Elf gets low grades from PFF, gets noticeably beat, and hasn't been real healthy. He's got some skills, and he'll probably keep getting better for a while, but right now he's just another lineman in the league. Top half at his position. Berger was the definition of just a guy. He had some solid years here, but was fighting for a job most years in camp, been cut multiple times, including twice by the same team. Again, he was a solid linemen, but he was nothing special. Reiff is a middle of the road LT. He's nothing special, and probably profiles better on the other side.

My point was that the league is full of lineman who can play, but most of them are within one standard deviation of each other on the ball curve of starting linemen. You can rearrange the deck chairs all you want, but you're better off installing a good system and trying to create some continuity. The odds that you're going to find a real star is slim. You hope you find one, and then just surround that guy with 4 dudes who compliment each other and play well together. Then, you pray for health, because very few teams have any real depth on the line. Injuries there are killers.

Usually when someone tries using something as meaningless as PFF ratings - about as meaningful as the rankings my mailman has - I don't place much stock in whatever point is being made. Here, it's ironically the opposite. While I give almost no creditibility to the pretend ratings PFF contrives I do remember several times posters claiming ELF was one of the highest rated centers last year and for like 3 years running Berger was our highest rated lineman prior to last year.

Sorry, it's hogwash not acknowledging Berger was a damn consistent and quality lineman. Who gives a flying F that he started as a jouneyman to start? And he was hardly"fighting for a position" his last 3-4 years. That's nonsense.

It's also silliness not acknowledging Elf is a quality center. Christ, it's only after he has been back that we have had any semblence of a running game and that's with him playing in between garbage at guards that are routinely pushed into the backfield.

If this team had two guys at rg and lg who were Joe Berger 2015-2016 this OL would be a RT away from being good and be massively better than what we are now.

He was 32nd at C last year and 33rd this year on PFF. It's not dispositive, just one measurement to use when evaluating.

[mlhouse]

Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it. They need to figure out the guard situation, problem is the draft of course is after free agency so until the draft happens, everyone on here will be flipping out about the guards. They will sign a guy or two for 1-2 years, little money and we'll all flip out in March because our guards on paper suck.

I'm convinced Remmers is gone, I thought it was essentially a two year deal for 10-12 mil. I think he'll be gone after this season, maybe Rashod Hill is back as the swing tackle though Collins will be here too and we've all heard they like him of course. Isidora is the guy the Vikings really could use to step up and have a good stretch here -- he didn't play well in preseason and by all accounts he didn't play well last week. I am somewhat surprised they went away from Brett Jones at this point as if they only want him to play center. I still don't mind giving up a 7th though for a rotational guy who can give you some spot starts. Most 7th rounders don't do that.

So yeah, draft.. first round... best available interior OL guy. With an extra third, you would hope they use another pick in the 3rd or 4th round on offensive line too.

1. Remmers only has a $1.8 million cap hit if he is released next season so I think he is a very good chance of having his deal restructured or will be released.

2. Reif;s deal has a $6.6 cap hit if he would be released in 2019 vs. 9.5 that they would have to pay him to play. So, he most likely will be retained. That ratio changes significantly in 2020 were the cap hit is $4.4 versus $11.0 million. SO, any movement, release or restructure, on Reiff will be in 2020.

3. I liked Isadora as a draft prospect and thought he played well in 2017 in his brief chance to play, but he was awful against the Saints. There were several plays were Sheldon Rankins and other Saint interior DLine just blew him away.

[HeHateMe]

Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it. They need to figure out the guard situation, problem is the draft of course is after free agency so until the draft happens, everyone on here will be flipping out about the guards. They will sign a guy or two for 1-2 years, little money and we'll all flip out in March because our guards on paper suck.

I'm convinced Remmers is gone, I thought it was essentially a two year deal for 10-12 mil. I think he'll be gone after this season, maybe Rashod Hill is back as the swing tackle though Collins will be here too and we've all heard they like him of course. Isidora is the guy the Vikings really could use to step up and have a good stretch here -- he didn't play well in preseason and by all accounts he didn't play well last week. I am somewhat surprised they went away from Brett Jones at this point as if they only want him to play center. I still don't mind giving up a 7th though for a rotational guy who can give you some spot starts. Most 7th rounders don't do that.

So yeah, draft.. first round... best available interior OL guy. With an extra third, you would hope they use another pick in the 3rd or 4th round on offensive line too.

HHM, I have to ask this: Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it.
Why? Why is it a "they will address it"? Its preposterous at this point to assume they will. Preposterous. Everyone keeps acting as if this is fucking new, this is a new problem. Huh? What? That just slays me.

THIS TEAMS BIGGEST WEAKNESS HAS BEEN OL FOR 5 YEARS. Its been its ONLY significant weakness the last 2-3. Of course you are right and they likely will, but lets not assume they will. If they wouldnt have been so cavalier about the position in first place the last few years we wouldnt be in this God damn mess.

"Let's not assume they will" .. why? I just laid out and others have said the same thing that BOTH GUARD spots will be open competitions next year. Now we can all sit here and say they haven't made the right moves at OL but from two years ago to now, who are the holdovers? Rashod Hill? It's a completely different offensive line. So it's not like they haven't tried to make changes it's just still a really poor spot on the team so yes, THEY WILL continue to make changes here. I would guess they draft the best available guard or center in the first round. I do not expect them to go into free agency and pay top dollar for a guard though when they've got so much money into Reiff and obviously other spots on the team. Do you want a guard next year or re-do Thielen's contract? Offensive line needs to be a position they focus on the draft higher and higher. WR/RB should not be high picks anymore, at least not first round!

QB, OL, DE, CB.... most important positions in football!

[hategreenticemase]

Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it. They need to figure out the guard situation, problem is the draft of course is after free agency so until the draft happens, everyone on here will be flipping out about the guards. They will sign a guy or two for 1-2 years, little money and we'll all flip out in March because our guards on paper suck.

I'm convinced Remmers is gone, I thought it was essentially a two year deal for 10-12 mil. I think he'll be gone after this season, maybe Rashod Hill is back as the swing tackle though Collins will be here too and we've all heard they like him of course. Isidora is the guy the Vikings really could use to step up and have a good stretch here -- he didn't play well in preseason and by all accounts he didn't play well last week. I am somewhat surprised they went away from Brett Jones at this point as if they only want him to play center. I still don't mind giving up a 7th though for a rotational guy who can give you some spot starts. Most 7th rounders don't do that.

So yeah, draft.. first round... best available interior OL guy. With an extra third, you would hope they use another pick in the 3rd or 4th round on offensive line too.

HHM, I have to ask this: Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it.
Why? Why is it a "they will address it"? Its preposterous at this point to assume they will. Preposterous. Everyone keeps acting as if this is fucking new, this is a new problem. Huh? What? That just slays me.

THIS TEAMS BIGGEST WEAKNESS HAS BEEN OL FOR 5 YEARS. Its been its ONLY significant weakness the last 2-3. Of course you are right and they likely will, but lets not assume they will. If they wouldnt have been so cavalier about the position in first place the last few years we wouldnt be in this God damn mess.

"Let's not assume they will" .. why? I just laid out and others have said the same thing that BOTH GUARD spots will be open competitions next year. Now we can all sit here and say they haven't made the right moves at OL but from two years ago to now, who are the holdovers? Rashod Hill? It's a completely different offensive line. So it's not like they haven't tried to make changes it's just still a really poor spot on the team so yes, THEY WILL continue to make changes here. I would guess they draft the best available guard or center in the first round. I do not expect them to go into free agency and pay top dollar for a guard though when they've got so much money into Reiff and obviously other spots on the team. Do you want a guard next year or re-do Thielen's contract? Offensive line needs to be a position they focus on the draft higher and higher. WR/RB should not be high picks anymore, at least not first round!

QB, OL, DE, CB.... most important positions in football!

Give me a break. On a SB talented roster the last two years, and a playoff caliber roster the two prior years - we had one obvious weakness. OL. So much so we lead the NFL in pressures the last 5 years.

What have we done about it over the last 4 years? Used a #2, and #3, a #4 on Clemmings, and another #4 on something known as a Willie fucking Beavers. Yep, they sure are trying!

Rd 1, Pick 30 (30) Hughes, Mike CB
Rd 2, Pick 30 (62) O'Neill, Brian OT
Rd 4, Pick 2 (102) Holmes, Jalyn DE

2 41 Dalvin Cook RB Florida State
3 70 Pat Elflein C Ohio State
4 109 Jaleel Johnson DT Iowa
4 120 Ben Gedeon LB

1 23 Laquon Treadwell WR Mississippi
2 54 Mackensie Alexander CB Clemson
4 121 Willie Beavers T Western Michigan

1 11 Trae Waynes CB Michigan State
2 45 Eric Kendricks LB UCLA
3 88 Danielle Hunter DE LSU
4 110 T.J. Clemmings T Pittsburgh

Spielman is a farce when it comes to OL. He doesnt fucking care about it - that is clear. ONLY after the unbelievably embarrassing debacle of 2016 was he pressured into doing anything - one not great signing with Remmers and one really good signing with Reiff. Did a good job drafting Elf.

The job wasnt all the way done, however, and then exacerbated by the loss of one of their 3 good lineman in Berger. So, still our biggest weakness, but better than 2016 - but then lost a good player. What did our boy do? Nothing. He did absolutely NOTHING to solve short term issue. You can spin and deflect all you want - we havent paid anywhere near enough attention to OL importance, we are HORRIBLE at evaluating OL talent, and it also appears we arent real good at coaching it either.

I, like any other dumbass here, have my share of bad takes. This aint one of them. I have trumpeted this for 4 fucking years and for 4 fucking years, I have been right.

[JPM]

Do you really think the Vikings will win ANYTHING?

[Qman65]

Maybe the Rickster should've dealt with it when he first became the GM. Hindsight being what it is, yes it's passing league and maybe you should have equal picks on both sides of the ball.

[HeHateMe]

HHM, I have to ask this: Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it.
Why? Why is it a "they will address it"? Its preposterous at this point to assume they will. Preposterous. Everyone keeps acting as if this is fucking new, this is a new problem. Huh? What? That just slays me.

THIS TEAMS BIGGEST WEAKNESS HAS BEEN OL FOR 5 YEARS. Its been its ONLY significant weakness the last 2-3. Of course you are right and they likely will, but lets not assume they will. If they wouldnt have been so cavalier about the position in first place the last few years we wouldnt be in this God damn mess.

"Let's not assume they will" .. why? I just laid out and others have said the same thing that BOTH GUARD spots will be open competitions next year. Now we can all sit here and say they haven't made the right moves at OL but from two years ago to now, who are the holdovers? Rashod Hill? It's a completely different offensive line. So it's not like they haven't tried to make changes it's just still a really poor spot on the team so yes, THEY WILL continue to make changes here. I would guess they draft the best available guard or center in the first round. I do not expect them to go into free agency and pay top dollar for a guard though when they've got so much money into Reiff and obviously other spots on the team. Do you want a guard next year or re-do Thielen's contract? Offensive line needs to be a position they focus on the draft higher and higher. WR/RB should not be high picks anymore, at least not first round!

QB, OL, DE, CB.... most important positions in football!

Give me a break. On a SB talented roster the last two years, and a playoff caliber roster the two prior years - we had one obvious weakness. OL. So much so we lead the NFL in pressures the last 5 years.

What have we done about it over the last 4 years? Used a #2, and #3, a #4 on Clemmings, and another #4 on something known as a Willie fucking Beavers. Yep, they sure are trying!

Rd 1, Pick 30 (30) Hughes, Mike CB
Rd 2, Pick 30 (62) O'Neill, Brian OT
Rd 4, Pick 2 (102) Holmes, Jalyn DE

2 41 Dalvin Cook RB Florida State
3 70 Pat Elflein C Ohio State
4 109 Jaleel Johnson DT Iowa
4 120 Ben Gedeon LB

1 23 Laquon Treadwell WR Mississippi
2 54 Mackensie Alexander CB Clemson
4 121 Willie Beavers T Western Michigan

1 11 Trae Waynes CB Michigan State
2 45 Eric Kendricks LB UCLA
3 88 Danielle Hunter DE LSU
4 110 T.J. Clemmings T Pittsburgh

Spielman is a farce when it comes to OL. He doesnt fucking care about it - that is clear. ONLY after the unbelievably embarrassing debacle of 2016 was he pressured into doing anything - one not great signing with Remmers and one really good signing with Reiff. Did a good job drafting Elf.

The job wasnt all the way done, however, and then exacerbated by the loss of one of their 3 good lineman in Berger. So, still our biggest weakness, but better than 2016 - but then lost a good player. What did our boy do? Nothing. He did absolutely NOTHING to solve short term issue. You can spin and deflect all you want - we havent paid anywhere near enough attention to OL importance, we are HORRIBLE at evaluating OL talent, and it also appears we arent real good at coaching it either.

I, like any other dumbass here, have my share of bad takes. This aint one of them. I have trumpeted this for 4 fucking years and for 4 fucking years, I have been right.

So you want more high draft picks on offensive line.... yeah... I agree. You've said over and over you're OK with the Hughes pick yet you keep hammering them for not selecting OL with higher picks. I agree... time to draft OL first round no matter what.

[hategreenticemase]

HHM,

What I have said about Hughes deal was this - while many were panicking about selecting a corner and not a lineman, ol hgtm - the leading critic of how our OL has been minsmanaged - said wait, if a guy is significantly higher on your board at the spot you are picking then you gotta take him.

But there was a massive comma at the end of the sentence. That being, my assumption was it wouldn't come at the expense of still getting a starting lineman. I mistakenly thought that after 2016 the moron had learned he can't ignore the ol. To be honest, I would have bet a lot of money he was going to trade back up and get one of the lineman we had as starter grade. THAT is my problem. It couldnt be either / or! Trade a pick, hell trade a pick from next year - but as those good guards started to fall, we had to act. Or trade for a good estsblished guard.

I believe you and I agree on building thru draft. Draft for value, not for need. Truly I agree with you. But when a team is as "close" to a sb roster as this one with such a clear need, do wtf you have to to get that problem solved. That's my issue, we didn't get the number one thing we needed done, done.

[Beef Supreme]

Based on today’s game, we do not have the worst OL in the league. That would be Detroit.

[hategreenticemase]

Based on today’s game, we do not have the worst OL in the league. That would be Detroit.

Yeah but that means about as much as the hair on my butthole. Here is the only two thing that matters about OL play. While a really good OL can be hugely beneficial and take your team from good to fn great - note, a "really good OL" is a LUXURY, NOT a necessity.

What is a straight up must have necessity is you at bare minimum be at least "solid" at OL. We havent been that for 5 years and have paid dearly for it.

[64DegreeWedge]

OL doesn’t matter

[Oriole81]

Based on today’s game, we do not have the worst OL in the league. That would be Detroit.

You may be right, but that means about as much as the hair in my ahole. Here is the only two thing that matters about OL play. While a really good OL can be hugely beneficial and take your team from good to fn great - note, its a LUXURY. That said, you must be competent. You cannot be anything less than solid at OL, period. We havent been that for 5 years.

It's relevant in regards to how much they have invested in the o-line.
They have a first rd pick LT, a first rd pick LG, a 3rd rd pick C, a 3 yr $28M RG, and a 5 yr $47M RT.

That's a lot of high draft picks and cap space for such a low amount of production.

I think we all know something has to be done with the o-line, but the hard part is figuring out how to get there. You can throw high picks and money at the problem, and it's still not a recipe for success.

[64DegreeWedge]

hatescoachesguy has no clue how football works lol.

[Porridge]

OL doesn’t matter

Wrong.

Detroit has the best OL in the league. They drafted OL with their first pick, 3 of the last 4 years.

Learn teh game!

[hategreenticemase]

Double post

[hategreenticemase]

One thing sort of lost in the shuffle of poor OL performance and absurd amount of pressures allowed is that Elf being back has definitely noticeably improved the running game. That's a big deal, as Cousins is very good in play action. If we can at least get defenses to worry about our run game that alone helps keep Cousins upright. Hoping this trend continues.

[Tuck ya in]

For the people that don't think that offensive line is paramount to success, take a look at who resides in the current top 5. And Philly was there last year. Both Superbowl teams this year could very well be in the top 5. You will have anomaly's here and there, but for the most part protecting the QB is everything for a deep run. Viking's are currently 27th.....

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

[Tuck ya in]

DP

[hategreenticemase]

For the people that don't think that offensive line is paramount to success, take a look at who resides in the current top 5. And Philly was there last year. Both Superbowl teams this year could very well be in the top 5. You will have anomaly's here and there, but for the most part protecting the QB is everything for a deep run. Viking's are currently 27th.....

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Well it least it's not PFF! As a rule, I get leery of subjective ratings using objective data that don't always tell the whole story. Meaning, if every player is the same on a poor ol team except one team has Rodgers and one team has Flacco, or one team has Gurley and one team has Mike Boone - it will be completely different "objective data" but both still equally horseshit ol. So, I tend to be leery of ratings.

Your point is well taken. I think it is very safe and reasonable to say "if you have a top 5 OL you have a good chance to be a good team, and perhaps elite." However, let me put a slightly different spin on this topic. While again, having a very good ol is awesome, it's also a luxury. The Paramount aspect is this - you cannot suck on OL. You have to be decent at the absolute bare minimum. I think the more telling stat would be this - what teams that finished bottom 8 in NFL (so bottom 1/4) have won a playoff game? Or even made the playoffs? That would be interesting to look at.

[64DegreeWedge]

Gets leery of objective data yet can only quantify his worthless opinions with objective opinions

[64DegreeWedge]

You’re not smart enough to analyze data. Stop.