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Maybe next year we address the OL

A place to discuss the MN Vikings
hategreenticemase
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Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by hategreenticemase »

Lead the NFL in pressured dropbscks. 40 fn percent of the times he drops back cousins is under duress. Unbelievable.

Not to mention not being able to run the ball prevents us from leveraging one of Cousins better assets - play action.

Cousins has some warts - some decisions he makes are baffling. Doesn't have great pocket awareness at times. But there is no question the guy has been outstanding - moreso when factoring in the joke of a OL in front of him. At absolute best (If say O'Neil can become legit Rt next year) we need two starting guards next year. As of now need a RT also. Unfnreal.

I'm so mofoing tired of talking about the OL for 5 God damn years. It's simply preposterous to me that we are in the same situation. Again. Except this time we have a QB, and literally are good enough at every other position. Shame on Spielman.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by RubeTube »

:hair: Lol. Just what we needed... Another Oline thread from OP.

Your obsession with this subject is second to only your Shurmur obsession. :lol:
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Stu Pedaso
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Stu Pedaso »

Quenton Nelson - G - Colts
Colts LG Quenton Nelson was named offensive rookie of the month for October.

An award usually reserved for quarterbacks, receivers, and running backs, Nelson is the first guard in NFL history to receive the honor. He certainly deserves it. The No. 6 overall pick got off to something of a rough start, but he has been dominant over the last month, helping the Colts' offensive line develop into one of the better units in the league.
Source: Colts on Twitter Nov 1 - 10:08 AM


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Tmoney
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Tmoney »

I'm not happy with the offensive line but I dont think they ignored it.

Drafted elflein and Oneil high. Went and got a starting left and right tackle.

Traded for Jones, picked up compton.

Mike Harris and loadhilt both retired way before anyone thought they would.

Easton got hurt.

On top of all this, the coach died a week before the season.
hategreenticemase
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by hategreenticemase »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:13 am :hair: Lol. Just what we needed... Another Oline thread from OP.

Your obsession with this subject is second to only your Shurmur obsession. :lol:
You are right. I should really branch out. Maybe some racist garbage type posts - can you help? Or maybe give me a suggestion for my own "series". I know I can never have anything as cutting edge, cool or compelling as your "elephant series" but my hope is I can grow my ego to the size of Texas and become a Sergeant Rubetube clone! :lol:
hategreenticemase
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by hategreenticemase »

:P
Tmoney wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:50 am I'm not happy with the offensive line but I dont think they ignored it.

Drafted elflein and Oneil high. Went and got a starting left and right tackle.

Traded for Jones, picked up compton.

Mike Harris and loadhilt both retired way before anyone thought they would.

Easton got hurt.

On top of all this, the coach died a week before the season.
I like your takes. I vehemently disagree with this particular one, however.

Last year they improved from possibly worst line in NFL in 16 to a below avg ol in 17. Howevero, theb their 3rd best lineman retired. So, your by far biggest weakness got even weaker.

Sorry, but don't make me laugh on Easton - Easton and Remmers were our biggest issues last year. I'm so tired of heating about his loss. He needed replacing, period. His loss exposed depth issues, nothing more.

O'Neill has a chance. Hopefully next year. I was ok with trying Remmers at Guard as he was barely serviceable at T. It was a decent gamble that didn't work out. Overall we are terrible at G, period.

Everyone rips taking Hughes - I actually was ok with it, if you have someone that high on your board you gotta take him. My issue is, one way another - free agency, trade up to get one for the G before they came off board - you had to at minimum get a starting G. Really we needed two. They got zero.

That's my issue. We had one clear cut need. It's the same fn need we have had for 5 years, to improve an OL to at least average. Once again, we didn't, and once again, we are paying for it.
Last edited by hategreenticemase on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tmoney
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Tmoney »

hategreenticemase wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:59 am
Tmoney wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:50 am I'm not happy with the offensive line but I dont think they ignored it.

Drafted elflein and Oneil high. Went and got a starting left and right tackle.

Traded for Jones, picked up compton.

Mike Harris and loadhilt both retired way before anyone thought they would.

Easton got hurt.

On top of all this, the coach died a week before the season.
I like your takes. I vehemently disagree with this particular one.

Last year they improved from possibly worst line in NFL in 16 to a below avg ol in 17. Their 3rd best lineman retired. So, your by far biggest weakness got weaker.

Don't make me laugh on Easton - Easton and Remmers were our biggest issues last year. I'm so tired of heating about his loss. He needed replacing, period.

O'Neill has a chance. Hopefully next year. I was ok with trying Remmers at Guard as he was barely serviceable at T. We are terrible at G, period.

Everyone rips taking Hughes - I actually was ok with it, if you have someone that high on your board you gotta take him. My issue is, one way another - free agency, trade up to get one for the G before they came off board - you had to at minimum get a starting G. Really we needed two. They got zero.

That's my issue? We had one clear cut need. It's the same fn need we have had for 5 years, to get an OL that is at least average. Once again, we didn't, and once again, we are paying for it.
See, they didnt ignore it. they either struggle to identify talent, or struggle to coach and develope it.

I hope they try Tice again, he can get those guys to play
hategreenticemase
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by hategreenticemase »

Tmoney wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:02 am
hategreenticemase wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:59 am
Tmoney wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:50 am I'm not happy with the offensive line but I dont think they ignored it.

Drafted elflein and Oneil high. Went and got a starting left and right tackle.

Traded for Jones, picked up compton.

Mike Harris and loadhilt both retired way before anyone thought they would.

Easton got hurt.

On top of all this, the coach died a week before the season.
I like your takes. I vehemently disagree with this particular one.

Last year they improved from possibly worst line in NFL in 16 to a below avg ol in 17. Their 3rd best lineman retired. So, your by far biggest weakness got weaker.

Don't make me laugh on Easton - Easton and Remmers were our biggest issues last year. I'm so tired of heating about his loss. He needed replacing, period.

O'Neill has a chance. Hopefully next year. I was ok with trying Remmers at Guard as he was barely serviceable at T. We are terrible at G, period.

Everyone rips taking Hughes - I actually was ok with it, if you have someone that high on your board you gotta take him. My issue is, one way another - free agency, trade up to get one for the G before they came off board - you had to at minimum get a starting G. Really we needed two. They got zero.

That's my issue? We had one clear cut need. It's the same fn need we have had for 5 years, to get an OL that is at least average. Once again, we didn't, and once again, we are paying for it.
See, they didnt ignore it. they either struggle to identify talent, or struggle to coach and develope it.

I hope they try Tice again, he can get those guys to play
They had two guys needing upgrading - Easton and Remmers PLUS needed to replace one of the 3 quality started they had who retired. Drafting a guy who is a project and had zero chance to be ready and moving one of your weak players to guard - that's trying to fix it?

They invested 84 million in a damn good qb. They did next to nothing to fix the one glaring weakness we have had for 5 years. Not sure how anyone can even try to defend or explain that.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by HeHateMe »

Remmers was going to be a starter regardless of whether they drafted a guard in the first round or not. The point going forward is they have to likely draft a guard in the first round who can start day one. And then, they might need to come back 2-3 rounds like and grab another. They are not going to be major players in free agency anytime soon so any guard that becomes available who wants north of 10 mil ain't coming here.

Reiff/rookie/Elflein/competition spot with later rookie and holdovers like Isidora-Collins-Jones?/O'Neill -- that's what we're looking at for next year right now. Rashod Hill is an adequate third tackle.
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Tmoney
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Tmoney »

I think the play if the line last year being fairly decent made them take more fringe players or projects.

Unfortunately they had some injuries making fringe players and projects play sooner or more than they expected.

I just think the loss of Sparano cant be undersold.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Ash Ketchum »

The problem is that the number of "good" offensive linemen is down across the board throughout the entire league.

Nelson was an exception, which is why you saw an OG drafted in the Top 10.

Those type of transcendent offensive linemen are rarely available later in the first round, which is usually where the Vikings are picking with this roster.

Bringing in a difference-maker along the OL will either take (A) big money (which we don't have), (B) a high first round draft pick, (C) luck, or (D) time for someone like Isadora, O'Neill, Elflein to develop.
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Tmoney
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Tmoney »

one thing I would like to see when Reiff is back.

Line up Hill at RT and put Oneill at TE. sometimes he blocks, others he reports as eligible. He started as a TE, would be a nice wrinkle, something the defense can think about and should be able to handle pressure.

nice red zone threat
hategreenticemase
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by hategreenticemase »

Tmoney wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:15 pm one thing I would like to see when Reiff is back.

Line up Hill at RT and put Oneill at TE. sometimes he blocks, others he reports as eligible. He started as a TE, would be a nice wrinkle, something the defense can think about and should be able to handle pressure.

nice red zone threat
Interesting idea. Certainly he would be better in blocking St point of attack than Morgan.

I disagree on Sparano comments earlier. Note, I do NOT like speaking ill of the dead AND it's worth noting I was hugely in favor of his hiring. Point being, I was a Sparano guy prior.

What really soured me is I just can't forget the debacle of 2016. Not only could he not salvage things to get us to at least "poor" instead of the dumpster fire we were - he also inexplicably didn't get Clemmings out of there when it was beyond obvious he was literally the worst player in NFL when asked to play LT. As soon as he got hurt - instant upgrade from worst in NFL to "below avg" with Hill. That frustrated me.

Worse yet - Fusco was horrid all year. He drove me bonkers. Routinely just absolutely bullied. He gets hurt with season ending injury and BOTH guys we used to replace him we're significant upgrades over Fusco for rest of year. It's simply incomprehensible to me that coaches don't know who their best players are! I lost an inordinate amount of faith in Sparano and company that end of year.....
Last edited by hategreenticemase on Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Tmoney
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Tmoney »

hategreenticemase wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:20 pm
Tmoney wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:15 pm one thing I would like to see when Reiff is back.

Line up Hill at RT and put Oneill at TE. sometimes he blocks, others he reports as eligible. He started as a TE, would be a nice wrinkle, something the defense can think about and should be able to handle pressure.

nice red zone threat
Dude, Hill has proven he isnt a starting NFL tackle. I agree he is ok as a swing tackle - but he isn't a starter.
I agree, it's not my starting choice, but as a wrinkle you can get another lineman out there, and he can catch a football.

Its Oneil going forward.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by hategreenticemase »

Tmoney wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:29 pm
hategreenticemase wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:20 pm
Tmoney wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:15 pm one thing I would like to see when Reiff is back.

Line up Hill at RT and put Oneill at TE. sometimes he blocks, others he reports as eligible. He started as a TE, would be a nice wrinkle, something the defense can think about and should be able to handle pressure.

nice red zone threat
Dude, Hill has proven he isnt a starting NFL tackle. I agree he is ok as a swing tackle - but he isn't a starter.
I agree, it's not my starting choice, but as a wrinkle you can get another lineman out there, and he can catch a football.

Its Oneil going forward.
I owe you an apology. In fact, I already went back and edited my original post. I initially misread it - you were talking situational stuff, not long term stuff. That's me reading too fast. I actually like your idea once my dumbass figured out what it actually was! :lol:
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Tmoney »

double post
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Sarge »

I read a twit recently that said Vikings QB's were the most pressured for the past 5 years or so.

Never researched that.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Beef Supreme »

Reiff is okay, if healthy.

Elf too.

I like O’Neal.

So we need 2 guards. I think isadora has a shot.

Hill
And the others are okay for depth. Not a Remmers fan.

I’d be surprised if we didn’t go with a guard in the first 3 rounds next year and grab a few more depth guys/projects after that.
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hategreenticemase
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by hategreenticemase »

Sarge wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:58 pm I read a twit recently that said Vikings QB's were the most pressured for the past 5 years or so.

Never researched that.
So not surprising, so very avoidable and so fucking frustrating.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Tuck ya in »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:13 am :hair: Lol. Just what we needed... Another Oline thread from OP.

Your obsession with this subject is second to only your Shurmur obsession. :lol:
It's because it's an important thing that hasn't been seriously addressed yet.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Qman65 »

Maybe next year they address the GM position. For failure to address the OL. :roll:
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Phrooster »

Qman65 wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:43 am Maybe next year they address the GM position. For failure to address the OL. :roll:
Bingo need a coach and a GM make it a priority
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by twgerber »

Phrooster wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:16 am
Qman65 wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:43 am Maybe next year they address the GM position. For failure to address the OL. :roll:
Bingo need a coach and a GM make it a priority
Don't ya just hate it when the a team is competitive year in and out but can't quite get to the SB. Fire them all and start all over. A few seasons of 2 or 3 wins is a small sacrifice to pay!
GM Spielman:
  • Record 62-48-2 (.559 winning %)
  • Playoffs 1-3
  • 7 years - reached playoffs 3 times.
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Zimmer is 48-33-1
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by mlhouse »

Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:28 pm Reiff is okay, if healthy.

Elf too.

I like O’Neal.

So we need 2 guards. I think isadora has a shot.

Hill
And the others are okay for depth. Not a Remmers fan.

I’d be surprised if we didn’t go with a guard in the first 3 rounds next year and grab a few more depth guys/projects after that.
Our interior of the line did not play well against the Saints, and that included Elfein. I had high hopes for Isadora, and I thought he played well in limited time last year, but he was terrible in the start against the Saints, worse than Compton.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by mlhouse »

AS far as next season's draft, the Vikings have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds so they have a lot of room to add depth to the OLine. I think at least 2 of those picks needs to be linemen, even if that is reaching a bit.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by Phrooster »

twgerber wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:10 am
Phrooster wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:16 am
Qman65 wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:43 am Maybe next year they address the GM position. For failure to address the OL. :roll:
Bingo need a coach and a GM make it a priority
Don't ya just hate it when the a team is competitive year in and out but can't quite get to the SB. Fire them all and start all over. A few seasons of 2 or 3 wins is a small sacrifice to pay!
If you're happy not winning a super bowl so be it I'd like to see this team go smash there opponents right in the mouth and take over games start to finish thru the hole season
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by twgerber »

Phrooster wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:27 am
twgerber wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:10 am
Phrooster wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:16 am

Bingo need a coach and a GM make it a priority
Don't ya just hate it when the a team is competitive year in and out but can't quite get to the SB. Fire them all and start all over. A few seasons of 2 or 3 wins is a small sacrifice to pay!
If you're happy not winning a super bowl so be it I'd like to see this team go smash there opponents right in the mouth and take over games start to finish thru the hole season
Rarely happens. I just want them to get hot going into the playoffs instead of limping in.
GM Spielman:
  • Record 62-48-2 (.559 winning %)
  • Playoffs 1-3
  • 7 years - reached playoffs 3 times.
  • Winner of the North 2 of last 4 years
Zimmer is 48-33-1
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by DC4MVP »

We're decent at best at LT (if he can stay on the field).

We need a new LG

Good at center. (Elf will be fine. He had a disaster of an off-season)

Need a new RG.

Will be decent to above-average at RT (O'Neill wasn't supposed to play this year. He needed to put on A LOT of size but once he does, he's going to be an above-average to good RT.)

So we NEED two new guards (I don't see a long-term starter on the roster), LT has a lot of room for an upgrade, center and RT should be fine going forward.

I'd like to see us go hard after guards in the draft. Easier said than done but it'd be huge if we could just get ONE "draft & play" guy and not draft guys who are to be projects and start 2 years down the road.

If we can just improve at guard, it should be enough to get us by until we upgrade at LT.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by beetlebum71 »

The issue isn't as simple as upgrading personnel. There are like 20 guys in the NFL who are legit difference makers on the O-line. The rest of them are just guys. No one can block these D-lineman the league has anymore. They're too big, too fast, and too strong.

I think it's a schematic thing. The fix? As much as I hate the way they play, do what Green Bay does. Dare the refs to call 15 holding penalties on you every game. Even if they pop you 2 or 3 times, you're getting away with it 20 other times. The only way to block these guys is to cheat. We don't do enough of it.
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Re: Maybe next year we address the OL

Post by HeHateMe »

Most of us are repeating the same thing ---- it's not a maybe in the offseason, they will address it. They need to figure out the guard situation, problem is the draft of course is after free agency so until the draft happens, everyone on here will be flipping out about the guards. They will sign a guy or two for 1-2 years, little money and we'll all flip out in March because our guards on paper suck.

I'm convinced Remmers is gone, I thought it was essentially a two year deal for 10-12 mil. I think he'll be gone after this season, maybe Rashod Hill is back as the swing tackle though Collins will be here too and we've all heard they like him of course. Isidora is the guy the Vikings really could use to step up and have a good stretch here -- he didn't play well in preseason and by all accounts he didn't play well last week. I am somewhat surprised they went away from Brett Jones at this point as if they only want him to play center. I still don't mind giving up a 7th though for a rotational guy who can give you some spot starts. Most 7th rounders don't do that.

So yeah, draft.. first round... best available interior OL guy. With an extra third, you would hope they use another pick in the 3rd or 4th round on offensive line too.
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