2018 Froob All-Time NFL Draft - Norn_Iron is on the clock!

[Ash Ketchum]

Any thoughts on whichever Froobs have the best or worst or otherwise noteworthy teams so far?

I’m through 6.5 rounds on Madden creation as of last night. I’ll do my best to get caught up so there isn’t a long delay once we’re done.

[Tony Bongwater]

The Baltimore Ravens select

images (50).jpeg

Ed too tall Jones. DE, undefeated prize fighter and actor with over a hundred sacks to his name. 3x all pro, 6 foot 9. He rounds out our starting defensive line quite nicely.

And

images (51).jpeg

Devin Hester

Rather than take the 20th best whatever, we grab the best return man an of all time, and a nice little gadget 4th reciever. He can win a game with only a couple touches.

QB 1 -Jim Kelly
QB 2
RB 1 - Tony Dorset
RB 2

WR 1 - Steve Smith
WR 2 -
WR 3 -
TE 1 - Mike Ditka
TE 2

OT 1 - Jason Peters
OG 1 - Zach Martin
C 1 -
OG 2 -
OT 2 -

DE 1 - Chris Doleman
DT 1 - Cortez Kennedy
DT 2 - Ted Washington
DE 2 - Ed Jones

MLB 1 - Ray Lewis
SLB 2 -
WLB 3 -
LB 4

CB 1 - Dick Lane
CB 2 -
CB 3
SS 1 - Troy Palamalu
FS 2 - Darren Sharper

1 K
1 P
1 KR - Devin Hester

[salamander]

DC4MVP Team A Selects:

O.J. Simpson, RB

And DC4MVP gets the greatest runningback to ever play the game!

[bombers3shooter]

DC4MVP Team A Selects:

O.J. Simpson, RB

And DC4MVP gets the greatest runningback to ever play the game!

He was a great slasher!

[mglviks]

DC4MVP Team B Select:

Clay Matthews, LB



Linval Joseph, DT




QB 1 - Johnny Unitas
QB 2

RB 1 - Adrian Peterson
RB 2 - OJ Simpson
WR 1 - Larry Fitzgerald
WR 2 - Michael Thomas
WR 3
TE 1 - Antonio Gates
TE 2

OT 1 - Forrest Gregg
OT 2 -
OG 1 - Steve Hutchinson
OG 2
C 1 - Mick Tingelhoff

DE 1 - Bruce Smith
DE 2
DT 1 - Linval Joseph
DT 2 -

LB 1 - Chuck Bednarik
LB 2 - Clay Matthews
LB 3
LB 4
CB 1 - Antoine Winfield
CB 2
CB 3
S 1 - Brian Dawkins
S 2
1 K
1 P

Up again bud.

I got my picks ready. Cross fingers on no snipe.

[mglviks]

Dont take my guys dc!

Back from lunch. So my picks wont be in til next break. 3ish

[DC4MVP]

DC4MVP Team A selects:

Danielle Hunter, DE: While he may be only 24, his numbers project him as a future hall of famer



Xavier Rhodes, CB: One of the best CBs in the current day NFL. Don't think he's a HOFer but prime Rhodes is a top-5 CB.



QB 1 - Dan Marino
QB 2

RB 1 - Walter Payton
RB 2
WR 1 - Jim Brown
WR 2 - Odell Beckham Jr.
WR 3
TE 1 - Kellen Winslow Sr.
TE 2

OT 1 - Jim Parker
OT 2 -
OG 1 - Larry Allen
OG 2
C 1 - Matt Birk

DE 1 - Jack Youngblood
DE 2 - Danielle Hunter
DT 1 -
DT 2 -

LB 1 - Mike Singletary
LB 2 - Bill George
LB 3 - Ted Hendricks
LB 4
CB 1 - Nnamdi Asomugha
CB 2 - Xavier Rhodes
CB 3
S 1 - Brian Dawkins
S 2
1 K
1 P

[DC4MVP]

P.S.....

Can someone near a CPU confirm that my last pick was for my Team A? I think Team A was the one to pick next.

[mglviks]

Safety Ken Houston and his 12 probowls.
On BR and Gil all time safety list; Houston was #2. For me no one is surpasses Lott and Reed. But Houston should be a top 5 guy no doubt. Huge steal here.
All 70s Team, all 75th anniversary team. Legendary
And

Before there was reggie white there was:
I select DT Randy White.
9 probowls, superbowl mvp. 111 sacks. All 80s team.

Both players couldve been selected 5+ rd ago without second thought.

Peuton Manning

Calvin Johnson
Marvin Harrison

Ruben Brown
Joe Thomas

Jared Allen
Simeon Rice
Haloti Ngata
Randy White

Bobby Bell
Brian Urlacher

Mel Renfro
Eric Allen
Ken Houston
John Lynch

[Ash Ketchum]

Randy White was a guy I considered WAY earlier, but just didn’t pull the trigger. Insane value here.

[bombers3shooter]

Thought about taking Randy White just for his versatility. Played DE, DT, and LB. Guy was a horse with a motor that never stopped. In hindsight White> Kevin Williams, but instead I really valued getting the Williams wall together and everyone needs a couple of homer picks. What fun is it not having a little purple on your roster! Nice picks mgl!

[salamander]

DC4MVP Team A Selects:

O.J. Simpson, RB

And DC4MVP gets the greatest runningback to ever play the game!

He was a great slasher!

Wow!

[Ash Ketchum]

Thought about taking Randy White just for his versatility. Played DE, DT, and LB. Guy was a horse with a motor that never stopped. In hindsight White> Kevin Williams, but instead I really valued getting the Williams wall together and everyone needs a couple of homer picks. What fun is it not having a little purple on your roster! Nice picks mgl!

Similar boat except rather than homer picks, I just prefer to select players I’ve actually seen play live. My favorite eras were the mid to late 90’s, and then obviously everything since then.

Not saying the old timers weren’t great, I just never had the pleasure to actually watch and judge for myself.

[Tony Bongwater]

Definitely considered white a couple of times but I just dont like the older lineman who lack the physical stats.. White is great, no doubt. But 250 lbs on the inside is a tough task.

[RubeTube]

Definitely considered white a couple of times but I just dont like the older lineman who lack the physical stats.. White is great, no doubt. But 250 lbs on the inside is a tough task.

Same exact thoughts

[D_B_U]

DBU Team A would like to select the following players:

Aqib Talib(CB)- 5 pro bowls/ 4th alltime in Interceptions returned for TDs

Doug Atkins- DE- 8 probowls/4 time all pro/ all 1960's decade team-hall of famer.

Team A
Offense
QB: Steve Young
RB: Jim Brown
WR: Terrell Owens/ Art Monk
TE: Jason Witten
OT: Trent Williams
OG: Bruce Matthews
C
Defense
DE: Doug Atkins
DT: Joe Greene/ Ndamukong Suh
MLB- Willie Lanier
OLB- James Harrison
CB: Darrelle Revis/ Aqib Talib
S: Jack Tatum
K
P

[bombers3shooter]

Thought about taking Randy White just for his versatility. Played DE, DT, and LB. Guy was a horse with a motor that never stopped. In hindsight White> Kevin Williams, but instead I really valued getting the Williams wall together and everyone needs a couple of homer picks. What fun is it not having a little purple on your roster! Nice picks mgl!

Similar boat except rather than homer picks, I just prefer to select players I’ve actually seen play live. My favorite eras were the mid to late 90’s, and then obviously everything since then.

Not saying the old timers weren’t great, I just never had the pleasure to actually watch and judge for myself.

I've watched enough NFL films, ESPN classics, and this VHS to have seen most of these guys at least in a few full games over the years. Me and my brothers wore this tape out watching it so many times trying to recreate classic NFL moments jumping over couches for a goalline score and breaking just about everything you could imagine in our home. Part of the nostalgia that makes this draft so fun!

[Ash Ketchum]

Thought about taking Randy White just for his versatility. Played DE, DT, and LB. Guy was a horse with a motor that never stopped. In hindsight White> Kevin Williams, but instead I really valued getting the Williams wall together and everyone needs a couple of homer picks. What fun is it not having a little purple on your roster! Nice picks mgl!

Similar boat except rather than homer picks, I just prefer to select players I’ve actually seen play live. My favorite eras were the mid to late 90’s, and then obviously everything since then.

Not saying the old timers weren’t great, I just never had the pleasure to actually watch and judge for myself.

I've watched enough NFL films, ESPN classics, and this VHS to have seen most of these guys at least in a few full games over the years. Me and my brothers wore this tape out watching it so many times trying to recreate classic NFL moments jumping over couches for a goalline score and breaking just about everything you could imagine in our home. Part of the nostalgia that makes this draft so fun!

Nice, I wish I would have been more of an NFL history buff when I was younger to get more of an appreciation for the older eras.

My earliest memory of seriously watching football and following it closely was 1997... watched the Giants playoff comeback with my relatives at what I assume was a Christmas gathering. The following year, 1998, was what got be hooked, and fantasy football really heightened my fandom in the early 2000's until now.


Obviously, I'm aware of most of the big moments in NFL history, but I didn't have the pleasure of actually watching a lot of the old timers.

I'm probably less of a fan now at 32 than I was as a kid. Just have things going on on Sundays some weeks, and some of the controversy with the anthem, concussions and such have dampened my love for football slightly. I don't mean that players kneeling for the anthem made me like the sport less... hell, I'm pro-kneeling I guess, but just the general attitude of people (fans, media) who treat the NFL like it's something to be held as sacred like church or the military has turned me off a bit.

The fans whose entire days are ruined when their team loses, the questions about whether or not certain players who do touchdown celebrations "respect for the game," and just the general tone of the fans and media talking about football as if its anything more than entertainment is just a bit off-putting for me at times.

But I still root for the Vikes on Sundays and follow what's going on in the league in general.

[RubeTube]

Thought about taking Randy White just for his versatility. Played DE, DT, and LB. Guy was a horse with a motor that never stopped. In hindsight White> Kevin Williams, but instead I really valued getting the Williams wall together and everyone needs a couple of homer picks. What fun is it not having a little purple on your roster! Nice picks mgl!

Similar boat except rather than homer picks, I just prefer to select players I’ve actually seen play live. My favorite eras were the mid to late 90’s, and then obviously everything since then.

Not saying the old timers weren’t great, I just never had the pleasure to actually watch and judge for myself.

I've watched enough NFL films, ESPN classics, and this VHS to have seen most of these guys at least in a few full games over the years. Me and my brothers wore this tape out watching it so many times trying to recreate classic NFL moments jumping over couches for a goalline score and breaking just about everything you could imagine in our home. Part of the nostalgia that makes this draft so fun!

I watched all these too. Been watching live since the mid 80's or so. Still doesn't tell me how good some of these guy's would be against other generations of players.

There are a handful of guys I know would still dominate though. I just basically took guy's I liked watch playing.

[Ash Ketchum]

Similar boat except rather than homer picks, I just prefer to select players I’ve actually seen play live. My favorite eras were the mid to late 90’s, and then obviously everything since then.

Not saying the old timers weren’t great, I just never had the pleasure to actually watch and judge for myself.

I've watched enough NFL films, ESPN classics, and this VHS to have seen most of these guys at least in a few full games over the years. Me and my brothers wore this tape out watching it so many times trying to recreate classic NFL moments jumping over couches for a goalline score and breaking just about everything you could imagine in our home. Part of the nostalgia that makes this draft so fun!

I watched all these too. Been watching live since the mid 80's or so. Still doesn't tell me how good some of these guy's would be against other generations of players.

There are a handful of guys I know would still dominate though. I just basically took guy's I liked watch playing.

That, to me, is the most interesting debate: which players from the past could hang in the modern era.

In the NBA, at least the guys from the 80’s and 90’s could say the rules allowed for more physicality and so they had that going for them compared to the current era.

(Example: Michael Jordan would have averaged 40ppg if defenders weren’t allowed to hand check him like the rules dictate today.)

In the NFL, I’m not sure. Would ANY of the defensive players from pre-1980 be able to dominate today like they did in their times?

You have 320 pound offensive linemen in 2018 who can run sub-5 second 40’s while being able to bench press 30+ times. You have WRs who literally aren’t far off from being fast enough to win Olympic medals all while weighing 210+ pounds. Linebackers who run like DBs.

Is the overall athleticism of the NFL player today much better than in the 1960’s?

I don’t know the answer to that, but it’s a fun talker.

[Tony Bongwater]

I've watched enough NFL films, ESPN classics, and this VHS to have seen most of these guys at least in a few full games over the years. Me and my brothers wore this tape out watching it so many times trying to recreate classic NFL moments jumping over couches for a goalline score and breaking just about everything you could imagine in our home. Part of the nostalgia that makes this draft so fun!

I watched all these too. Been watching live since the mid 80's or so. Still doesn't tell me how good some of these guy's would be against other generations of players.

There are a handful of guys I know would still dominate though. I just basically took guy's I liked watch playing.

That, to me, is the most interesting debate: which players from the past could hang in the modern era.

In the NBA, at least the guys from the 80’s and 90’s could say the rules allowed for more physicality and so they had that going for them compared to the current era.

(Example: Michael Jordan would have averaged 40ppg if defenders weren’t allowed to hand check him like the rules dictate today.)

In the NFL, I’m not sure. Would ANY of the defensive players from pre-1980 be able to dominate today like they did in their times?

You have 320 pound offensive linemen in 2018 who can run sub-5 second 40’s while being able to bench press 30+ times. You have WRs who literally aren’t far off from being fast enough to win Olympic medals all while weighing 210+ pounds. Linebackers who run like DBs.

Is the overall athleticism of the NFL player today much better than in the 1960’s?

I don’t know the answer to that, but it’s a fun talker.

I feel like it depends on the player and position. I've already stated that I dont think basic lack of size or speed is something most older players can overcome. When I have drafted older players I've made sure that their measurables are at least ahead of their time if not phenomenal and tried to look at the fit. College track star or know for speed and quickness. In Ed Jones' case.... behemoth size with boxers hands lined up on the left, as I'd never expect him to deal with the modern day left tackle. There are certain position I feel like where measurables are less important. Tight End, or punter for example. Ditka, I feel like, would be a terror in the red zone in any era.

[bombers3shooter]

I feel like it depends on the player and position. I've already stated that I dont think basic lack of size or speed is something most older players can overcome. When I have drafted older players I've made sure that their measurables are at least ahead of their time if not phenomenal and tried to look at the fit. College track star or know for speed and quickness. In Ed Jones' case.... behemoth size with boxers hands lined up on the left, as I'd never expect him to deal withe modern day Left tackle. There are certain position I feel like where measurables are less important. Tight End, or punter for example. Ditka, I feel like, would be a terror in the red zone in any era.

Yeah I put these thoughts into place with guys like Paul Warfield. Read that he ran a 4.5 with all of his pads on for his known timed 40. Then you read on more about an old timer like that and find out he quit training for the Olympics as a jumper to focus on football full time. Also broke several state track record in HS in Ohio.

You can't just focus on raw numbers, the OJ Bills sometimes would compete 6 passes a game, the way the game has changed and evolved you could see Tom Brady complete 6 passes or more on one drive. Numbers are inflated today, and you really have to project what a great player that could actually translate would do if nobody could touch him off the line and with a modern passing offenses uptick in opportunities. It works both ways if you have the right kind of athlete.

[Tony Bongwater]

I feel like it depends on the player and position. I've already stated that I dont think basic lack of size or speed is something most older players can overcome. When I have drafted older players I've made sure that their measurables are at least ahead of their time if not phenomenal and tried to look at the fit. College track star or know for speed and quickness. In Ed Jones' case.... behemoth size with boxers hands lined up on the left, as I'd never expect him to deal withe modern day Left tackle. There are certain position I feel like where measurables are less important. Tight End, or punter for example. Ditka, I feel like, would be a terror in the red zone in any era.

Yeah I put these thoughts into place with guys like Paul Warfield. Read that he ran a 4.5 with all of his pads on for his known timed 40. Then you read on more about an old timer like that and find out he quit training for the Olympics as a jumper to focus on football full time. Also broke several state track record in HS in Ohio.

You can't just focus on raw numbers, the OJ Bills sometimes would compete 6 passes a game, the way the game has changed and evolved you could see Tom Brady complete 6 passes or more on one drive. Numbers are inflated today, and you really have to project what a great player that could actually translate would do if nobody could touch him off the line and with a modern passing offenses uptick in opportunities. It works both ways if you have the right kind of athlete.

On field numbers are whole other thing. On offense today's players certainly get an advantage and you have to adjust for. What would Dorset do in a modern day offense....

On defense I feel like it's almost the opposite in a lot of cases. The evolution of the modern offense would slash a lot of old timers numbers. Paul Krause for instance. Though I drafted him its wasn't because I'd expect him to set the record for interceptions in today's game. I think he'd be a very effective and dangerous free safety. But I wouldn't expect to see 80 interceptions.

[Norn_Iron]

I take CB - Chris Dishman and DE - Gino Marchetti

QB 1 - Joe Montana
QB 2

RB 1 - Gale Sayers
RB 2
WR 1 - Don Hutson
WR 2 - Adam Theilan
WR 3
TE 1
TE 2

OT 1 - Gary Zimmerman
OT 2 - Ron Yary
OG 1
OG 2
C 1 - Mike Webster

DE 1 - Gino Marchetti
DE 2
DT 1 - John Randle
DT 2 - Alan Page

LB 1 - Khalil Mack
LB 2 - Cornelius Bennett
LB 3
LB 4
CB 1 - Lester Hayes
CB 2 - Chris Dishman
CB 3
S 1 - Harrison Smith
S 2
1 K
1 P

[Tony Bongwater]

I take CB - Chris Dishman and DE - Gino Marchetti

QB 1 - Joe Montana
QB 2

RB 1 - Gale Sayers
RB 2
WR 1 - Don Hutson
WR 2 - Adam Theilan
WR 3
TE 1
TE 2

OT 1 - Gary Zimmerman
OT 2 - Ron Yary
OG 1
OG 2
C 1 - Mike Webster

DE 1 - Gino Marchetti
DE 2
DT 1 - John Randle
DT 2 - Alan Page

LB 1 - Khalil Mack
LB 2 - Cornelius Bennett
LB 3
LB 4
CB 1 - Lester Hayes
CB 2 - Chris Dishman
CB 3
S 1 - Harrison Smith
S 2
1 K
1 P

I forgot Chris Dishman was a thing, underrated player. Nice pick. And the Marchetti pick is good value. Guy was dominant.

[mglviks]

I was certainly aware of size variances from the old school guys. I did think White was a little bigger. 257 listed on pfr. No fret. Still a grinder to the max. And happy to have him.

The rest of my picks throughout i was still aware like Bobby Bell would still have modern day athletism.

[mglviks]

Whelp, here we go!!

With the second pick in the 2018 Froob All-Time NFL Draft, DuffMan Team A selects...



...Tom Brady

Youre up!

[Tony Bongwater]

Whelp, here we go!!

With the second pick in the 2018 Froob All-Time NFL Draft, DuffMan Team A selects...



...Tom Brady

Youre up!

I see what you did there.

And in regards to the previous post; I'm not knocking the pick. It was great value. I think what we're saying is that theres a reason he was around. If he were 30 lbs heavier he probably would have went by now. And its not that he couldn't be successful. Good football players find a way.... ask John Randle. I just think when pitted against modern day players some guys value is diminished. Same as I was talking about Krauss. His lack of elite speed and athleticism will bring him back towards the pack a bit. Still a great player, still dangerous... just not as physically overwhelming as in his day.

[Ash Ketchum]

I agree.

It should not tarnish the legacy of the old timers; they were still among the very best athletic humans in the world at that time, and I mean, it’s not like they weren’t fast, quick and strong. I don’t mean to paint them as bad athletically.

But with how big sports have become in terms of an industry in modern times, how popular sports have become among fans, all the medical advances, advances in training facilities, expanded knowledge and dependence on nutrition and supplements, advances in coaching concepts, etc., today’s players are simply much more athletic in general.

I think the biggest difference is just how many people are athletic in today’s world compared to the 1950’s. Back then, people who trained to be athletic had a better chance to actually go on to use that athleticism in the world of pro sports. Today, your Average Joe can stop by the local Snap Fitness and turn him or herself into an athlete to varying degrees.

There’s still limited roster spots on professional teams, but the pool of athletic humans to fill those spots is VASTLY greater than 50-60 years ago. And so, the humans who end up being NFL players end up being the very elite of the elite athletically and technically. Instead of the 4.7 guy at 185 pounds in 1950 being in the top .01% of athletes, that same guy wouldn’t stand out today with all the 4.4 guys at 220 or the 4.8 300 pounders that exist now.

For example, Frank Gifford went to Pro Bowls in the early 60’s as a RB, a DB and a WR in separate seasons. That would and could never happen today.

Now, obviously sheer athleticism isn’t the only thing that makes NFL players great at what they do, but with certain situations and positions, it’s simple physics.

No matter how gutty and tenacious and technically sound a guy like CB Dick LeBeau was in his prime, Julio Jones or Calvin Johnson would destroy him on 10/10 plays. That’s no disrespect to LeBeau, it’s just the simple truth.

I think some of the historically great MLB (Nitschke, Butkus, etc.) could absolutely hang in the run game because they were good sized, but any of the modern RBs or TEs would just breeze by them as receivers.

For the purposes of this whole Madden thing, though, I’m not penalizing players for the era they were in. Undersized guys from the past won’t have crazy low strength ratings, and speed will be kept relatively fair regardless of the era.

Their actual measurables (height and weight) don’t matter in Madden. You could create a 5’6” 155 pound LT and if his strength and blocking ratings are equal to a 6’8’ 325 pound guy, they will seem like equal players during Madden gameplay.

It’s nice because I can compensate a bit with more cerebral attributes like awareness and play recognition on Madden, so the old timers have actual things they can be rated more highly at than their faster, stronger modern day counterparts.

[Tony Bongwater]

I agree.

It should not tarnish the legacy of the old timers; they were still among the very best athletic humans in the world at that time, and I mean, it’s not like they weren’t fast, quick and strong. I don’t mean to paint them as bad athletically.

But with how big sports have become in terms of an industry in modern times, how popular sports have become among fans, all the medical advances, advances in training facilities, expanded knowledge and dependence on nutrition and supplements, advances in coaching concepts, etc., today’s players are simply much more athletic in general.

I think the biggest difference is just how many people are athletic in today’s world compared to the 1950’s. Back then, people who trained to be athletic had a better chance to actually go on to use that athleticism in the world of pro sports. Today, your Average Joe can stop by the local Snap Fitness and turn him or herself into an athlete to varying degrees.

There’s still limited roster spots on professional teams, but the pool of athletic humans to fill those spots is VASTLY greater than 50-60 years ago. And so, the humans who end up being NFL players end up being the very elite of the elite athletically and technically. Instead of the 4.7 guy at 185 pounds in 1950 being in the top .01% of athletes, that same guy wouldn’t stand out today with all the 4.4 guys at 220 or the 4.8 300 pounders that exist now.

For example, Frank Gifford went to Pro Bowls in the early 60’s as a RB, a DB and a WR in separate seasons. That would and could never happen today.

Now, obviously sheer athleticism isn’t the only thing that makes NFL players great at what they do, but with certain situations and positions, it’s simple physics.

No matter how gutty and tenacious and technically sound a guy like CB Dick LeBeau was in his prime, Julio Jones or Calvin Johnson would destroy him on 10/10 plays. That’s no disrespect to LeBeau, it’s just the simple truth.

I think some of the historically great MLB (Nitschke, Butkus, etc.) could absolutely hang in the run game because they were good sized, but any of the modern RBs or TEs would just breeze by them as receivers.

For the purposes of this whole Madden thing, though, I’m not penalizing players for the era they were in. Undersized guys from the past won’t have crazy low strength ratings, and speed will be kept relatively fair regardless of the era.

Their actual measurables (height and weight) don’t matter in Madden. You could create a 5’6” 155 pound LT and if his strength and blocking ratings are equal to a 6’8’ 325 pound guy, they will seem like equal players during Madden gameplay.

It’s nice because I can compensate a bit with more cerebral attributes like awareness and play recognition on Madden, so the old timers have actual things they can be rated more highly at than their faster, stronger modern day counterparts.

Wait....are you creating all these players?